MotoGP: 2015 Round 13 - Gran Premio TIM di San Marino (SPOILERS)

Jumkie said:

VR is guaranteed a podium or higher. By design!

Would you like to dispute the last statement.

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littlesparrows said:

I've really enjoyed these battles between MM, JLo & VR.

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littlesparrows said:

JLo, He's a perfectionist. Everything he has to do must be perfect & it shows. He's by far the best rider, in my opinion.

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Mick D said:

I would, in fact, like to dispute that statement.

The statement would imply that both MM and JLo would have a string of podiums equal to Rossi before Misano, which is obviously not true.

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Mick D said:

You may not understand the term 'battles'. Haven't seen any 3-ways yet this season... (No Misano was not a a 3-way...). Watch Moto2 or 3 for definition of 'battles'.

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Mick D said:

His 'perfectionism' is both this greatest asset AND his greatest flaw. I'll pick the opportunist as the 'best' rider.

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littlesparrows said:

...., I forgot how literal everyone one this forum is.

What I mean, is I like that there is always a toss up on who is on and off the podium. Who is gonna take first.

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Jumkie said:

Rossi didn't make it rain nor make Lorenzo crash. For me the issue has always been that VRs few rivals (by design) not only have to compete on the track but also mitigate whatever effects from rules changes or tire "development" materialize during the season. Only 3 men were ever going to win the championship this year, is that a "conspiracy"? The only people who employ this retort are resorting to a lazy response (apart from those incapable of defending their position). There were 4 contending machines, but we know Pedro made the odds 1:3. We virtually know this. And so VR by design had a 1:3 chance. While everyone has been preoccupied blaming the RCV for Marquez's meltdown little to no attention has been highlighted on this year's tires until recently. The tire development had the effect of the pendulum swing from the Marc/RCV domination to a Jlo/VR--M1 domination. The only "conspiracy" part of this statement is my assertion that it was by design. The non conspiracy part of that statement is the reality that it has indeed had this undeniable effect on the three contenders. The swing becomes more discernible and pronounced if you look back at VR's poor race win record the last two years. Did the tires have an effect? Yes. Fact. So is this all "conspiracy"? No.

Gamblers take bets on worse odds. This was a sure bet for Dorna, 1:3 is practically a toss up. And when you factor in unforseen factors, like we've had the last two rounds, it makes the bet a non risk no brainer. I'd even say, Dorna were happy just to have VR on the podiums, which when u have a 4 bike championship is virtually guaranteed. What part of this last statement is "conspiracy"? Answer: my assertion that that it was by design, ie Dorna brokered. Lets examine then the "conspiracy" part of the above.

Here is the challenge #1: Can someone dispute the odds for a title win this year was not virtually a 1:3 odds for Marquez, Lorenzo, and Rossi? Are these odds a type of "conspiracy"? Explain.

Challenge #2: Can someone tell me the odds of VR winning a title when he was at Ducati? How did those odds change when he was signed back with Yamaha? Are these odds a type of "conspiracy"? Explain.

Challenge#3: Have the tires this year had an adverse effect on the RCVs while seemingly favorable to M1s? Is this reality a conspiracy? Explain.

Challenge #4: Kropo is on record here saying Dorna were involved in subsidizing Valentino's return to Yamaha. Fact. Is this a "conspiracy"? Explain.



My answers:

#1: Not conspiracy, its simply a statement of odds. The same type of statistics a legit odds make would produce. Simple math.

#2: Not conspiracy, even the odds makers (and a casual observer of GP) could calculate the odds for VR on a Ducati were unrealistic long shots, while at Yamaha those odds became virtually 1:3. Simple math.

#3: Not conspiracy. Though the variable of the tire causing favorable or detrimental conditions for the factory bikes can be disputed, the reality of the outcomes are real and undeniable. The beneficiaries of the tire this year have been factory M1 riders.


#4: Not conspiracy, because this is not an 'opinion' by Kropo, which can be disputed, but rather a fact. Backed up by other verifiable sources.

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Jumkie said:

So Mick, what is the message in this prediction for any given race: "Honda Yamaha Yamaha Honda" (or variation of these).

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Arrabbiata1 said:

Possibly.

You're right that Jorge's complex psyche and cerebral side can be his own worst enemy but unlike his younger years in the feeder classes, it can also be his strength and his willingness to embrace sports psychology as a key part of his preparation has without doubt transformed him as a rider.

Vale is a wily cunning old sod though. But as crafty as he is, I think as he said, he expected it to rain again. Even if it had, the tyres were beginning to disintegrate quite badly. Had Rossi had pitted earlier like Marquez I believe he would have won - anything can happen in the remaining six races, but a 37 point lead on Jorge would have surely been unassailable.

I was so disappointed. I really want this to go to the wire. I would love to see Vale bag a tenth title, but equally would like to see Jorge win his fifth. I suppose, had it have stayed dry at Silverstone and Misano, it likely would have gone the other way and Lorenzo might have a built an 18 point lead on Rossi, but instead, Vale has gapped him by 23. Racing is all about taking your chances. Rossi's phenomenal ride at Silverstone aside, he is better than the rest in the wet...and it rained. Although he rues his luck - knowing he very likely have come away from the last to rounds with a 50 point haul, I like the way that Jorge has remained magnanimous, observing that luck has benefited him in the past - and that very simply, he must aim to win the final five races to compensate. With Aragon ridiculously favouring Honda, perhaps like last year, looking to next round, his best chance ironically may yet rest in the fickle vagaries of the Autumn Spanish climate.

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Jumkie said:

Migs, I can't find exactly how much buddy, its a secret. You know, that tactic people use to conceal something.

Mexican Monkey!

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Jumkie said:

Me too.

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Keshav said:

Cue theremin and creepy whistling music.

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MigsAngel said:

You mean....


that should be long enough to keep some of you entertained

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MigsAngel said:

Hmmm....no Dorna paying part of Rossi's salary to be back on the Yamaha is maybe a rumor that starts and ends on this forum....perhaps?

BTW - your boy Nicky was doing alright for most of the race....then everyone went back on slicks and he went backwards quick....when do you think we will have an announcement about this future?

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Jumkie said:

Haha, Migs, now you and I are calling ........ on Kropo. Maybe there is hope for you amigo.

Ive never even heard rumors that Dorna ever cut Nicky any checks. Im glad you concede to believing conspiracy. So it looks like we have a Mexican standoff in the conspiracy department.

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Jumkie said:

Mexican Monkey!

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MigsAngel said:

If Kropo said it on here then it could be only less than rumor, if he posts it on site as a article then it more than a bit more substantial of a story ....
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MigsAngel said:

SO the Rossi Dorna $$$ story is looking less and less credible...while we did find an article by SOUP (so it must be true) that reported Dorna interfering on Nicky's behalf to ensure his future 2 years ago....

.

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MigsAngel said:

Mexican yes....standoff looking less and less the case from where i am standing mate...
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Arrabbiata1 said:

But he couldn't guarantee that Lorenzo would take the bait. Nonetheless I was astonished that Jorge ignored his pit board instruction to change bikes. Perhaps as Mike points out, his reluctance to prematurely (in his mind) switch to slicks and his wariness of intermediate conditions may have deterred him from coming in where in sections, the track was still quite wet.

Remember that horrendous race at Doni in 2009 which Dovi won? Lorenzo went down then at Goddards. I remember posting back then that the lack of an intermediate tyre option was an outrage. Talps is right and I hope that this potentially lethal omission is reviewed and redressed with the reintroduction of Michelin.

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