2024 Round 13: Gran Premio Red Bull di San Marino e della Riviera di Rimini San Marino - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

#22 said:

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If your name is Jorge, there’s a non zero chance that you don’t like rain.

It’s just science.

Ooof, that hurts.

Nice thread. It's been a fun read seeing everyone's reaction to Jorge's fateful decision to pit. Unforced errors.

I have nothing to add other than I hear the Jaws theme playing very quietly in the background, now that Marc has back to back wins, and he's just a bit over 50 points from the championship lead. Plenty of time left, especially if Jorge and Pecco get tangled during a GP.

Without trying to sound like a Marc fanboy, I see it that way too Lex.

In 1986, Prost won the F1 title at the final race because the Williams team mates kept taking points off each other. Like then, it is not inconceivable that if Jorge and Pecco keep trying to win their battles, they both may very well end up losing the war.

Looking at the remaining rounds, you have to consider that the next round at Misano, Phillip Island and Valencia are ones he will be competitive at.

JPSLotus said:

Just watching how MM interacts with the entire Gresini team is why I wish he could have stayed there. It looks like such a great environment to be a rider in.

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I agree with you. He won’t feel as much love in the corporate Ducati lounge and it may affect him.
It also struck me that Marc inadvertently or otherwise did the floundering Bagnaia a favour by shepherding him to the finish. But credit to the Bagman he latched onto Marc and stayed near enough for long enough to bring it home.
Felt for Martin when he looked over his shoulder and saw no one had followed him into the pits and he thought, Oh, ....!

Heard an interesting bit on the Paddock Pass today.

Pramac was supposedly one of the few teams not to go through the wet weather scenarios with their riders.

Utterly insane, considering how likely some type of rain was.

Faz said:

I agree with you. He won’t feel as much love in the corporate Ducati lounge and it may affect him.

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I don't think it will personally. He lived with corporate Honda for many years.
This isn't a guy like Bastinannini, who spent 2 years in friendly satellite teams only to get a shock that the factory team was not so cosy.

Gresini is my favorite team for sure. I actually own one of their Light blue jackets. Figured it was a good way to remember this iconic team with Marc and Alex. Plus I just really love the team. It was obvious to me it was a great vibe when beast was there.

So there's been 3 wins this year that weren't on GP24's and Marc has made 2 of them. Points wise Marc has a huge lead over the next GP23 rider and is in front of all riders that aren't on a GP24

mikesbytes said:

So there's been 3 wins this year that weren't on GP24's and Marc has made 2 of them. Points wise Marc has a huge lead over the next GP23 rider and is in front of all riders that aren't on a GP24

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I made a bet on him for title in march 2019 after first race at 1,55 odds and gambled 300. I'm considering betting for second time for 2025, but it depends on odds. Having money on the line makes it for more intense watching. That Lorenzo bowling in 2019 Catalunya spared my heart as I knew he probably would have won title. I'm thinking 2025 title will be easy but if odds will be less than 1,5 it's not worth the risk.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Gresini is my favorite team for sure. I actually own one of their Light blue jackets. Figured it was a good way to remember this iconic team with Marc and Alex. Plus I just really love the team. It was obvious to me it was a great vibe when beast was there

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I agree about Gresini. It must be great for them as well, as an at best mid pack team to have possibly the greatest rider of all time on your team and winning races.

It says something about MM’s character as well imo, I hesitate to say it, but it is perhaps somewhat akin to Schumacher, who despite an even more widespread perception of general malevolence was loved by his teams. If you are going to win hugely you need to have some people on your side/working with you, which seems to have been the case with Brady as well.

michaelm said:

I agree about Gresini. It must be great for them as well, as an at best mid pack team to have possibly the greatest rider of all time on your team and winning races.

It says something about MM’s character as well imo, I hesitate to say it, but it is perhaps somewhat akin to Schumacher, who despite an even more widespread perception of general malevolence was loved by his teams. If you are going to win hugely you need to have some people on your side/working with you, which seems to have been the case with Brady as well.

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Do you know what Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, and Marc Marquez have in common? They all took pay cuts to be with a winning team. Brady was never the highest paid quarterback because he knew it would hurt the team. He wanted that money spent on talent to support him. Michael Jordan took pay cuts to re-sign Scotty Pippen. Champions don't chase the dollar they do what it takes to win.

michaelm said:

I agree about Gresini. It must be great for them as well, as an at best mid pack team to have possibly the greatest rider of all time on your team and winning races.

It says something about MM’s character as well imo, I hesitate to say it, but it is perhaps somewhat akin to Schumacher, who despite an even more widespread perception of general malevolence was loved by his teams. If you are going to win hugely you need to have some people on your side/working with you, which seems to have been the case with Brady as well.

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The difference between Marc and Michael Schumacher is that Marc never rode for a team that cheated to win a championship. He definitely did not do anything like Adelaide 1994 when Michael purposely wrecked Damon Hill to secure his first title. Nor did Marc ever get kicked out of a world championship the way Schumacher did in 1997 for purposely driving into Jacques Villeneuve in a desperate attempt to save his World Championship bid at Jerez. Then there was the attempts to run Mika Hakkinen off the Kemmel Straight at Spa in 2000 again in another desperate attempt to hold position in a championship battle that he did ultimate prevail in. There was the parking effort at Monaco in 2006 where he parked his car at Rascasse to try and keep provisional pole position. Not to mention trying to run Rubens Barichello into the pitwall at 190MPH at the Hungaroring during the GP. Schumacher was one of the dirtiest drivers I ever had the displeasure of watching. Not that everyone behaves perfectly on track, and I am certainly willing to make allowances for this and heat of the moment incidents...but Schumacher was far more calculating on track to simply chalk it up to heat of the moment. Yes he was liked by the teams he drove for. But he was in his day as divisive as Valentino was in his day.

I'd also say that based on everything I know, Ayrton Senna died trying to outrun an illegal car in Schumacher's Benetton B-194 at Imola...the one that the FIA found traction control software hidden on the ECU, as well as launch control. But oh hey we can't prove it was used so there's nothing we can do. As if any team run by noted scumbag Flavio Briatore could be trusted from top to bottom. Plus Schumacher ignored black flags at the British GP that year which got him a multi-race ban after the appeal failed.

There's a lot more I would say but it's not really fit for public consumption.

I'm not going to ever disregard everything he did on-track and the blatant favoritism Ferrari were given by the maFIA just because he's a vegetable now.

He doesn't sound like a good bloke at all.
Knew he did a bit of dodgy stuff but not that much.
Never been into F1 as it is boring as fk to watch imo. All that aero .... makes it very hard to pass. Hope it never happens to motoGP.
Oh wait.....

warthog1 said:

He doesn't sound like a good bloke at all.
Knew he did a bit of dodgy stuff but not that much.
Never been into F1 as it is boring as fk to watch imo. All that aero .... makes it very hard to pass. Hope it never happens to motoGP.
Oh wait.....

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I liked it in the formula Cosworth days when Alan Jones was wont to pass 3 opponents on the same corner.

Aero wrecked it, and Dorna who seem intent on following F1 slavishly bid fair to allow the engineers to achieve the same in motogp as you say.

#22 said:

Without trying to sound like a Marc fanboy, I see it that way too Lex.

In 1986, Prost won the F1 title at the final race because the Williams team mates kept taking points off each other. Like then, it is not inconceivable that if Jorge and Pecco keep trying to win their battles, they both may very well end up losing the war.

Looking at the remaining rounds, you have to consider that the next round at Misano, Phillip Island and Valencia are ones he will be competitive at.

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MM himself says he needs to make less mistakes, such as the one he made in qualifying which would normally have ruined his weekend., to be in the title fight.

I consider him less likely to make mistakes than Pecco or Martin, and particularly not the type of own goal just scored by Martin, but I am now more inclined to believe Bagnaia and Martin about some of their crashes, that these aero devices just ain’t natural and perhaps do just let go for no apparent reason on occasion. This is something even MM probably won’t be able to avoid, although he does appear recently to be able to skate on the limit more than other Ducati riders, as he has done in general on other bikes over his whole career.

I don't know jack about aerodynamics, but could aero stall be a factor mid corner? Particularly amongst other bikes.

Nobody in MotoGP want's a competitor to be hurt

michaelm said:

MM himself says he needs to make less mistakes, such as the one he made in qualifying which would normally have ruined his weekend., to be in the title fight.

I consider him less likely to make mistakes than Pecco or Martin, and particularly not the type of own goal just scored by Martin, but I am now more inclined to believe Bagnaia and Martin about some of their crashes, that these aero devices just ain’t natural and perhaps do just let go for no apparent reason on occasion. This is something even MM probably won’t be able to avoid, although he does appear recently to be able to skate on the limit more than other Ducati riders, as he has done in general on other bikes over his whole career.

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The extra load aero imposes on the tyre, in order to improve traction, brings with it a faster, more precipitate loss of traction and less feel at the edge of traction.
I am no motoGP rider though, just guessing based how fast the front lets go compared to how it used to, when at least Marc could leave black lines on the tarmac with the front tyre.
There just seems less warning and less chance of saving it when the front does let go.

warthog1 said:

The extra load aero imposes on the tyre, in order to improve traction, brings with it a faster, more precipitate loss of traction and less feel at the edge of traction.
I am no motoGP rider though, just guessing based how fast the front lets go compared to how it used to, when at least Marc could leave black lines on the tarmac with the front tyre.
There just seems less warning and less chance of saving it when the front does let go.

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Yes, that was what I was trying to get at, although less well expressed than you have managed.

If MM can work out a way to exist close to even that edge he will be hard to stop even on a year old bike, particularly if his main rivals consider such loses to be completely arbitrary. He shows some signing of being able to do so recently, but in all probability won’t be able to avoid such crashes entirely.