2024 Round 14: Gran Premio Pramac dell’Emilia-Romagna - Misano World Circuit Marco Simoncelli

This is the 2021 MotoE race at the same tract, same corner, and same Stewards, different results, watch to the end.

PRS717 said:

That's a very fine distinction as Enea was all but off the track when he turned to look at Jorge. Is that the measuring stick? You can punt a rider off track but as long as YOU stay on, no harm, no foul?

Click to expand...

If Bastainini punted Martin then a penalty should of been given. Is that the case or did Martin fail to yield the position?

Havey said:

This is the 2021 MotoE race at the same tract, same corner, and same Stewards, different results, watch to the end.

Click to expand...

We have been saying there needs to be better consistency from the Stewards. Shall see if Crafer can deliver

Faz said:

He didn’t punt him off the track. Jorge could have slowed when he knew Enea was up his inside but chose not to. They briefly touched when Jorge got loose braking.

Click to expand...

So Enea launches a questionable move and Jorge is supposed to roll ever and let him have it? The onus is on the rider making the overtake to do it safely and responsibly, isn't it?

Jack Miller got done by Johan Zarco in the same manner, in the last lap in Misano.

No complaints, as that is the way to pass (paraphrased) on the aero bikes.

PRS717 said:

So Enea launches a questionable move and Jorge is supposed to roll ever and let him have it? The onus is on the rider making the overtake to do it safely and responsibly, isn't it?

Click to expand...

It wasn’t a questionable move imo, to me questionable means it was dangerous and it wasn’t. It was uncompromising and left Jorge with no good options. This is after all world championship motorcycle racing not an afternoon excuse me dance.

PRS717 said:

So Enea launches a questionable move and Jorge is supposed to roll ever and let him have it? The onus is on the rider making the overtake to do it safely and responsibly, isn't it?

Click to expand...

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Faz said:

It wasn’t a questionable move imo, to me questionable means it was dangerous and it wasn’t. It was uncompromising and left Jorge with no good options. This is after all world championship motorcycle racing not an afternoon excuse me dance.

Click to expand...

Got to say, it's racing, not boxing. Trade a bit of paint is one thing, bumping elbows or knees, yeah - that happens. Anytime a rider knowingly makes a move that has such a high potential for knocking the rider off the bike or crashing, that's not racing. That's pugilism. And it's unnecessarily dangerous, even at low speeds. Some will say Martin wasn't "endangered" per se, but ...., I had a high side at only 40 Mph at my last race at Loudon and broke my hip. I walk okay, but still can't run for .....

Keshav said:

Got to say, it's racing, not boxing. Trade a bit of paint is one thing, bumping elbows or knees, yeah - that happens. Anytime a rider knowingly makes a move that has such a high potential for knocking the rider off the bike or crashing, that's not racing. That's pugilism. And it's unnecessarily dangerous, even at low speeds. Some will say Martin wasn't "endangered" per se, but ...., I had a high side at only 40 Mph at my last race at Loudon and broke my hip. I walk okay, but still can't run for .....

Click to expand...

Some of the stuff Crafar said in the "After the Flag" segment I do not disagree with. BUT, he said them as an ex-racer and said he'd have to "learn" about it from the stewards' perspective. My problem is the inconsistency in the issuance of penalties. Look at the MotoE video that was posted. Same. Exact. Thing. Torres couldn't keep the bike upright but Martin could. Is that why no penalty was called? Or is it because it's the last lap and they are fighting for the win? What if the same thing happened on lap 9 with Taka stuffing it up the inside of Augusto Fernandez? Would a penalty have been given? I mean, we didn't even get the blurb on the screen that race direction was looking at it.

PRS717 said:

Some of the stuff Crafar said in the "After the Flag" segment I do not disagree with. BUT, he said them as an ex-racer and said he'd have to "learn" about it from the stewards' perspective. My problem is the inconsistency in the issuance of penalties. Look at the MotoE video that was posted. Same. Exact. Thing. Torres couldn't keep the bike upright but Martin could. Is that why no penalty was called? Or is it because it's the last lap and they are fighting for the win? What if the same thing happened on lap 9 with Taka stuffing it up the inside of Augusto Fernandez? Would a penalty have been given? I mean, we didn't even get the blurb on the screen that race direction was looking at it.

Click to expand...

Everybody's entitled to their opinion. Crafar essentially rationalizes that Bastininni waited a long time planning the move - and that somehow legitimizes the move. I say horseshit. Same for the rationalization that penalizing the Beast would harm the sport. To me that's mealy mouth Public Relations soft-soap offered for purposes of not critiquing Dorna. Mind you, I'm not inclined to see base motives behind everything I disagree with. Just a gut feeling from a long-time skeptic.

The impression that the stewards give is that, the move in 2021 was illegal and penalised, but now it is ok to do the same thing without any penalty, WTF and they turning the sport into.

Keshav said:

Crafar essentially rationalizes that Bastininni waited a long time planning the move - and that somehow legitimizes the move.

Click to expand...

Thanks for reminding me of this. So yea, Enea had been planning that move for several laps......and?? He couldn't pull it off so he threw it up the inside on the last lap. Enea, while mathematically still alive in the championship race, really has nothing to lose because his chances for the championship are slim to none. What does he care if he gets a penalty? Martin is leading the championship and Enea almost put him down.

Anybody see my tinfoil hat? I might need it.

Faz said:

It wasn’t a questionable move imo, to me questionable means it was dangerous and it wasn’t. It was uncompromising and left Jorge with no good options. This is after all world championship motorcycle racing not an afternoon excuse me dance.

Click to expand...

Enea himself has tacitly admitted he needed to stay on the track, saying he only went off track because he looked to see that JM hadn’t crashed which he had thought was a possibility looking out of the corner of his eye.

Imo there are arguments both ways on this. It was one of the slowest sections of the track/safest places for a pass as Simon Crafar said, Enea had been the faster rider for a few laps, and JM made a riding error while trying to stay ahead. I also wonder whether JM exaggerated his response to the contact. The denizens of motorsport.com have harked back to Assen 2015 when Rossi maintained first place by going off track, which I agreed with RD at the time he was entitled to do. Looking at the incident again now I continue to be of that opinion, but now as back then I suspect there was an element of Rossi out-smarting MM, anticipating the contact and going off track to his advantage, with MM possibly following him.

While there are angles to this particular incident imo MM is correct in general, a rider shouldn’t be able to gain/maintain a position by making a pass/move which will not leave his bike on track except by using an opponent as a berm, or requires drastic evasive action by the opponent to avoid being torpedoed. I hence continue to consider Jerez 05, Laguna Seca 08, Jerez 13 and Assen 2015 to be illegitimate moves.

michaelm said:

I also wonder whether JM exaggerated his response to the contact

Click to expand...

That's entirely possible as Martin probably knew he wouldn't be able to repass Bastainini - go off track but not into the gravel so he could rejoin the track crossing the line second but getting 1st reinstated with the penalty.

ApriliaRS250 said:

As i keep saying prosecco and martini taking turn’s blundering, so next race martini is due to a visit in the graveltrap.

If marc would of won austin and sachsenring he would be leading the championship

So a ...... brake pump and stefan bradl might have cost him a title. Thats the quantum of luck that makes or brakes a title campaign

Click to expand...

This aged so well

I now got the whole 2024 Championship patterns scientifically figured out:

MM93 bins it in Q2 and having phenomenal comebacks in the races

While pecco and martin take turns of visits in the graveltrap while alternating whether if that is happening in a sprint or a gp