MotoGP: 2015 Round 13 - Gran Premio TIM di San Marino (SPOILERS)

Keshav said:

By now you must realize I DON'T RESPOND to the whole Spanish Inquisition dynamic. And I am WHOLLY UNMOVED by the sophomoric taunts and fabrications from the peanut gallery. You have nothing to gain by continuing a line of inquiry which just leads back to the same old unsatisfying results. A reasonable person would move on.

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Ah yes, your vow to take a hiatus for reflection and ignore these tangents is admirable. Your word is 'your' bond.

Kesh, aren't there a few spam threads out there that need your attention? The ..... enhancement vendors are just a board away.

Kesh, is an expert at bloviating.

JPSLotus said:

Kesh, is an EXPERT at bloviating.

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And ignoring, hiatus taking, banning, and generally improving the quality of the forum threads.

Jumkie said:

And ignoring, hiatus taking, banning, and generally improving the quality of the forum threads.

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Gotta keep busy when no one wants to buy harmoniums any longer.

Jumkie said:

Well my friend, that's a nice revision, make no mistake, Yamaha were not happy, otherwise Dorna would not have needed to step in, however, I don't see how you are advancing your point by saying Yamaha had favored Lorenzo when Valentino left. And Rossi won plenty of races and titles for Honda too, yet they weren't being pressured by the League to take him back, because they didn't have to.

And regarding the other list of riders, which of those was a seat brokered by Dorna and subsidized? .....uhm, None.

And regarding promoting an AMA champ, uhm, because that has not been done with any historical significance right? Pedrosa had plenty of time in a "GP" paddock, hell GP titles, didn't quite mean dildo.

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All teams are subsidized mate. Hayden's promotion was on the back of Honda America, there is one.

Marcs promotion was only made possible due to a rule change from Dorna, there is two.

Cal's return to Honda is dubious to say the least, there is three.

Bradley Smith's Tech3 deal, 4.

Dorna's always got their hand in it mate, and sometimes for good reason. I mean lets face it, if they've helped orchestrate Rossi's continued competitiveness then its a stroke of genius. 97000 people at Misano, .... loads more watching on TV-big dollars baby.

I don't think they are that clever though, but clever enough to know that you need protagonists and antagonists to sell more tickets, and this year they've got perfect storm with Yamaha building a much better bike and having the two best riders in the world on their machines. One of them is the biggest name the sport has ever seen-and Dorna can't invent this fact, they can however take advantage of it

Talpa said:

All teams are subsidized mate. Hayden's promotion was on the back of Honda America, there is one.

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Isn't Hayden's current salary and seat on the Aspar team subsidized by American Honda and since he left Ducati by Dorna as well...?

I see the usual suspects are trying to reduce this thread into the abyss of bullocks and insults.....It is shame they hate MotoGP and do their best to ruin the discussion for the rest of us....perhaps they need to take a hiatus to Rog's place...

JPSLotus said:

Here's the question, does Rossi have a chance to win any of the final 5 races?

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Absolutely

I expect him to win at Phillip Island as really he has only one equal at that track and that equal will be fishing instead

Jumkie said:

Well my friend, that's a nice revision, make no mistake, Yamaha were not happy, otherwise Dorna would not have needed to step in, however, I don't see how you are advancing your point by saying Yamaha had favored Lorenzo when Valentino left. And Rossi won plenty of races and titles for Honda too, yet they weren't being pressured by the League to take him back, because they didn't have to.

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Jums as I remember it, and that memory is hazy as I am old and as such forget things real easy but I would agree with Talps (yeah I know, hell must have frozen over ) and say that Rossi's departure from Yamaha was far more friendly than was his departure from Honda where he publically espoused his dislike for many aspects of Honda's approach.

With regard to his return to Yamaha, I personally suspect that to have been more about DORNA and it's need to resurrect the sport in the eyes of mainstream media (ie. standard news media) and fans as the sports viewership and sponsorship dollars were said to be waning due to Rossi's lack of success on Ducati. Whilst no doubt Yamaha were probably hesitant as it was Rossi who left them, I also suspect that DORNA offered a level of encouragement to Yamaha to accept that the return of the prodigal son would be good for Yamaha and DORNA.

As for Honda, you are absolutely correct that they had no need for Rossi to go back to them as they had a very good lineup of riders in MotoGP at the time together with a good feeder system of likely contracted riders.

Time has shown that the return of Rossi has had the effect that DORNA seemed to want with the comment 'Valentino will be on a competitive bike next year' and as we know, Rossi does not need a second invite as he will produce results on the track and off due to his marketability

Talpa said:

AI don't think they are that clever though, but clever enough to know that you need protagonists and antagonists to sell more tickets, and this year they've got perfect storm with Yamaha building a much better bike and having the two best riders in the world on their machines. One of them is the biggest name the sport has ever seen-and Dorna can't invent this fact, they can however take advantage of it

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Talps, I do actually think they are clever enough as they are first and foremost business people that run the sport.

Irrespective of the riders involved for DORNA this is not a sport but a business and as such they must as you say (and as I have said since the days of the two strokes) build the good guy / bad guy persona of various riders to produce non-motorcycle interest and to generate the most important aspect for DORNA .......... the all mighty dollar.

They know that over the last 20+ years that few riders have had the personality traits to become a 'brand' that DORNA can use to firstly generate and then increase their revenue stream and so they need Rossi and as with all businesses, will encourage all aspects within their powers to ensure that the brand remains marketable. They realised that the Ducati years were not helping their bottom line and unfortunately for DORNA these years also coincided with an economic downturn and as such they took or encouraged steps that any business owner would to ensure the future viability and growth of the business.

Love or hate DORNA and the way they run the sport it is business.

Love or hate Rossi for having been smart and personable enough to develop, use and sell his brand one cannot begrudge the opportunities that have fallen into his lap as a result. The one big thing is though, that without his basic skills (which are at the top of the tree) then none of this would have been possible as not just could Rossi 'talk the talk', he more than most could also 'walk the walk' so good luck to him I say (and most who know me know that I am no fan of the personality)

Jumkie said:

Yes, but he knows he doesn't have to, and he has known this since he took the lead early on in the season. Consider this, before the weather reared its ugly head, we knew that VR would end up on the podium at Misano, did we not? The subject of debate was who might win the race between Lorenzo or Marquez, as we had conceded a VR win was a longer shot. I believe VR knew the implications of this reality and the added pressure on Lorenzo, which predicatively (at least for me) could likely result in Jorge pressing. And in a way, some of us knew too, as this was a must win situation for Lorenzo, hence the antics and the gamesmanship.

The question is, can Marquez win the rest of the races with perhaps the exemption of Valencia? Yes, and its likely. The championship was sealed today, as VR can spend his time riding for the podium, not exactly a difficult task considering Pedrosa's record against Rossi.

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Another wet race was always going to be problematic for Jorge given the points situation, but so it goes. The conditions are the same for everyone, and I see no more luck in wet conditions thwarting him than in dry conditions (relatively) favouring him. He could perhaps have heeded his crew and finished as far ahead of Valentino as he could without risking all, but as you said pre- race it was getting fairly tight for him.

All credit to Valentino for the 8th premier class title which now seems inevitable and will be a crowning achievement at age 36 and against this opposition, as Ago's 8th was, although I doubt many would question his superiority over Ago overall.

I think Jorge will win more races this year if there are more dry races, but now to little avail.

Arrabbiata1 said:

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Was that pic from last year Arrabb? They look the same to my 50+ yr old self!!

JPSLotus said:

Another thing, the wet weather masters also are truly better than everyone else at determining what they need for tires when conditions start changing. Senna was an absolute master of this. In 21 wet weather starts, he only had two DNF's that were his fault.

And Donington for those who have never seen it. It's the single greatest lap I have ever seen under race conditions. He starts 5th on the grid.

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I've both driven and walked that track and still wonder in amazement how the hell he did what he did on that lap.

Arrabbiata1 said:

It's very hard, virtually impossible to dislike Valentino - even after the Ducati sham and the underhand way in which he was parachuted back onto the Yamaha.

It's very hard, virtually impossible to like his glory hunting fanbase. So many of these aren't fans of the sport of motorcycle racing. Yet again - further evidence of this, cheering Jorge's accident, which was ....... ugly and booing Marquez's victory. I shall be sad to see Vale retire but I'll be ....... glad when he takes his idiotic fanbase with him. The collective noun for a group of Valentino Rossi fans? Bunch of c**ts.

Go Scotty, Go Brad.

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AntG said:

The cheering of Lorenzo's crash was disgusting, made even worse by the fact that the circuit is named after a young motorcycle racer killed in a racing crash.

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Agreed. I don't support VR anymore for this reason, the fandom are no fans of Motorcycle racing and anyone who cheers when any sports person is injusred is ...... in the head imo.

Mick D said:

Respect to Loris Baz. Unlike Bradders ("I just stayed out too long on the slicks and so said WTF I might as well stay out here") or Redding ("I crashed so I can only take my other bike with slicks on"), Baz proactively made his own choices as to when to pit and he nailed it! The 'too big' kid has skills and I, for one, hope he survives the Forward Racing debacle and gets a ride next season. He deserves it - best open rider and second best rookie (and who knows how he would have gone on the Zookie or at Aspar if he had the chance...). Too tall my arse!!

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I've always liked Baz, and all his WSBK wins came in cheangeable conditions so I'm not surprised.

I didn't get to see the race live, only some highlights as I was watching the Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy at the Goodwood Revival. Fantastic seeing 60's GP Nortons, Matchless, Honda's and BMW's going at it!

one way or another, after all, rossi might actually win this championship being slower than the other two......
i still believe lorenzo is capable of bouncing back and as long as it stays dry he remains the favourite for the title..
but, winter is coming

bill88 said:

one way or another, after all, rossi might actually win this championship being slower than the other two......
i still believe lorenzo is capable of bouncing back and as long as it stays dry he remains the favourite for the title..
but, winter is coming [emoji14]

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Good point about VR bring the slowest of the three. Such is the reality in such a tiny odds picture. Had Lorenzo employed the same strategy as Rossi, that of the old cliche, you can't win the title today but you can lose it, then maybe. But this title is over. Done and dusted. Not enough points on offer given Marquez form and VRs strategy of riding for points. VR is guaranteed a podium or higher. By design!

Would you like to dispute the last statement Migs, or you gonna hide behind the word "conspiracy" to keep you cozy?

Arrabbiata1 said:

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Top stuff. Quoting to repeat images of ugly talented fuckers

Talpa said:

All teams are subsidized mate. Hayden's promotion was on the back of Honda America, there is one.

Marcs promotion was only made possible due to a rule change from Dorna, there is two.

Cal's return to Honda is dubious to say the least, there is three.

Bradley Smith's Tech3 deal, 4.

Dorna's always got their hand in it mate, and sometimes for good reason. I mean lets face it, if they've helped orchestrate Rossi's continued competitiveness then its a stroke of genius. 97000 people at Misano, .... loads more watching on TV-big dollars baby.

I don't think they are that clever though, but clever enough to know that you need protagonists and antagonists to sell more tickets, and this year they've got perfect storm with Yamaha building a much better bike and having the two best riders in the world on their machines. One of them is the biggest name the sport has ever seen-and Dorna can't invent this fact, they can however take advantage of it

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Buddy, you and Migs conveniently twisted the challenge. I asked which rider had a subsidy directly by Dorna.

American Honda is not Dorna as much as Monster, Repsol, Red Bull, etc are NOT Dorna. Try again boys.

Gaz, I said VRs departure from Yamaha was similar, not the same. Both left in a fit of ego where both manufacturers were displeased. Im not arguing magnitude. The point I made which neither of you dispute is that Dorna had to step in to repair the relationship, if not outright coerce a return. Dispute that.

MigsAngel said:

Isn't Hayden's current salary and seat on the Aspar team subsidized by American Honda and since he left Ducati by Dorna as well...?

I see the usual suspects are trying to reduce this thread into the abyss of bullocks and insults.....It is shame they hate MotoGP and do their best to ruin the discussion for the rest of us....perhaps they need to take a hiatus to Rog's place...

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Migs, American Honda is as free to pay for a rider as is any manufacturer. How does this equate in your mind to the LEAGUE subsidizing a rider by directly brokering a deal? Do you watch any other sports? Do you see all those stickers on the riders? Those are called sponsors and outright employers (hence the Honda sticker). What Rossi had on his return to Yamaha was a big DORNA sticker on his leathers as a SPONSORS! Except they hid it, so that people EXACTLY like you would think it wasn't impartial.

Now imagine that. Replace the Monster hat on Rossi and replace it with one that says DORNA. Standing next to Nicky eho has a Honda hat. Does that say anything to you? As to your second point, Let's see you debate this migs, since as your avitar suggests, you're only about the "racing". When Rossi wins the title this year and is going down the list of SPONSORS he will need to include DORNA. If he doesn't then he is a co-conspirator in the deception! It's that simple.

Rossi new he couldn't beat Lorenzo this race in the dry. The longer he could drag Lorenzo around on wets and the deeper they dropped in the field the less points Lorenzo would gain over Rossi.
just a thought.

Jumkie said:

Ah yes, your vow to take a hiatus for reflection and ignore these tangents is admirable. Your word is 'your' bond.

Kesh, aren't there a few spam threads out there that need your attention? The ..... enhancement vendors are just a board away.

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Never made any vow.

A hiatus is what one makes of it. They don't come in standard lengths.

Rich from the guy who offers a truce and stabs you in the back in the space of one page in a post.

No tangents here. I reached out to JP trying to speak in a reasoned tone hoping to end the back and forth vitriol. But I guess he would lose face if he were to respond in kind. Like they say; "No good deed goes unpunished".

As for the ..... enhancer salesmen - I just looked on Google Earth and can see that they're lining up in droves in front of your front door. Checked your wife's Amazon account lately?