MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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Agreed, Gaz.
If this season ends up a Rossi choke, what do we call Marquez'?
A full orange-in-the-mouth, placcy bag on head, belt round neck, auto asphyxiation?

As I said, my theory for MM's horrific first half, right now is that the tires were not the same as what Honda designed the bike for. They expected the 2015 tires to perform in a certain manner, and I believe a last minute alteration was made, which put the RCV in MM's hands at a distinct disadvantage. Certainly MM didn't help matters further by crashing out of races through unforced errors.

But VR goes from a guy who might win a race or two a year at best, to a guy with 4 race wins and leading the championship at a time when he isn't getting any younger? lol

Seems odd to me, especially since no rider has ever done such a thing. Sure it's been attributed to his "will" and "motivation" but there have been plenty of people who never lost that will and motivation, however time had other ideas in mind.

The oldest world champion in a top tier race series was the great Juan Manuel Fangio who won his final F1 championship at the age of 46 in 1957.

Oldest MotoGP world champion was in the first season of the championship with Leslie Graham who won at 37 years old in 1949.

Such feats accomplished at later ages haven't been repeated in nearly 60 years in one series, and 66 years in the other. It simply doesn't happen anymore. Hell even NASCAR's oldest champion was Bobby Allison at 45 in 1983, over 30 years gone. I think CART may have been Emerson Fittipaldi at the age of 43 in 1989.

Call me skeptical about VR's sudden finding of the fountain of youth. There's nothing in the data to support a world title bid at this stage of a grand prix motorcycle racing career. A victory isn't outrageous, potentially winning the championship is since even Agostini and Doohan were done at 33.

1949 they were racing on these bikes...

Isle_of_Man_TT_Retro_2_d.jpg


In 2015 they are racing on these...

DIpIVr8.png


Considering the massive speed differentials involved and lean angles....

I smell .........
 
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Rossi was up by double digits for roughly half the season. He hasnt DNF'd a single race, Lorenzo has. Marc and Dani are way out of the picture. It's the very definition of a choke

Nope, the definition of a choke is Greg Norman and the US Masters or any other major golf tournament (or my bloody cricket team in the grand finals - 5 years, 5 runner ups)
 
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As I said, my theory for MM's horrific first half, right now is that the tires were not the same as what Honda designed the bike for. They expected the 2015 tires to perform in a certain manner, and I believe a last minute alteration was made, which put the RCV in MM's hands at a distinct disadvantage. Certainly MM didn't help matters further by crashing out of races through unforced errors.

But VR goes from a guy who might win a race or two a year at best, to a guy with 4 race wins and leading the championship at a time when he isn't getting any younger? lol

Seems odd to me, especially since no rider has ever done such a thing. Sure it's been attributed to his "will" and "motivation" but there have been plenty of people who never lost that will and motivation, however time had other ideas in mind.

The oldest world champion in a top tier race series was the great Juan Manuel Fangio who won his final F1 championship at the age of 46 in 1957.

Oldest MotoGP world champion was in the first season of the championship with Leslie Graham who won at 37 years old in 1949.

Such feats accomplished at later ages haven't been repeated in nearly 60 years in one series, and 66 years in the other. It simply doesn't happen anymore. Hell even NASCAR's oldest champion was Bobby Allison at 45 in 1983, over 30 years gone. I think CART may have been Emerson Fittipaldi at the age of 43 in 1989.

Call me skeptical about VR's sudden finding of the fountain of youth. There's nothing in the data to support a world title bid at this stage of a grand prix motorcycle racing career. A victory isn't outrageous, potentially winning the championship is since even Agostini and Doohan were done at 33.

1949 they were racing on these bikes...

2880105-ss_b61bdc1e8762b0895ff30732e8298eb9add2ce86.1920x1080.jpg


In 2015 they are racing on these...

DIpIVr8.png


Considering the massive speed differentials involved and lean angles....

I smell .........
A possible flaw in your argument is that if anyone has been given the tyre which suits him this year it is Jorge Lorenzo, although why the tyre was taken away previously is another question.

The possibility also exists that Valentino is actually better than Agostini or even Doohan, particularly since Mick Doohan himself has said he believes this to be so. I also think the HRC engineers and MM are entirely capable of stuffing up the bike without any assistance.
 
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A possible flaw in your argument is that if anyone has been given the tyre which suits him this year it is Jorge Lorenzo, although why the tyre was taken away previously is another question.

The only dramatic anomaly that the tire has created is ascension by Rossi.

That Lorenzo can win on it was unintended consequence. This tire change by far has artificially aided Rossi to be a consistent contender. UNLIKE the previous 4 years.
 
The only dramatic anomaly that the tire has created is ascension by Rossi.

That Lorenzo can win on it was unintended consequence. This tire change by far has artificially aided Rossi to be a consistent contender. UNLIKE the previous 4 years.

Each has a different tyre of preference though.
 
Some people wear pojamas some people wear robes. Who am I to judge? I didn't think you were yawning, I thought you were just trying to cover up your .... sucking face. See pojama people, robe people.

Wish I could post pics. After lunch there was a old dude in PJs (not that uncommon here) riding his scooter through the mall. Not snoozeworthy at all.
 
As I said, my theory for MM's horrific first half, right now is that the tires were not the same as what Honda designed the bike for. They expected the 2015 tires to perform in a certain manner, and I believe a last minute alteration was made, which put the RCV in MM's hands at a distinct disadvantage. Certainly MM didn't help matters further by crashing out of races through unforced errors.

But VR goes from a guy who might win a race or two a year at best, to a guy with 4 race wins and leading the championship at a time when he isn't getting any younger? lol

Seems odd to me, especially since no rider has ever done such a thing. Sure it's been attributed to his "will" and "motivation" but there have been plenty of people who never lost that will and motivation, however time had other ideas in mind.

The oldest world champion in a top tier race series was the great Juan Manuel Fangio who won his final F1 championship at the age of 46 in 1957.

Oldest MotoGP world champion was in the first season of the championship with Leslie Graham who won at 37 years old in 1949.

Such feats accomplished at later ages haven't been repeated in nearly 60 years in one series, and 66 years in the other. It simply doesn't happen anymore. Hell even NASCAR's oldest champion was Bobby Allison at 45 in 1983, over 30 years gone. I think CART may have been Emerson Fittipaldi at the age of 43 in 1989.

Call me skeptical about VR's sudden finding of the fountain of youth. There's nothing in the data to support a world title bid at this stage of a grand prix motorcycle racing career. A victory isn't outrageous, potentially winning the championship is since even Agostini and Doohan were done at 33.

1949 they were racing on these bikes...

2880105-ss_b61bdc1e8762b0895ff30732e8298eb9add2ce86.1920x1080.jpg


In 2015 they are racing on these...

DIpIVr8.png


Considering the massive speed differentials involved and lean angles....

I smell .........
Honda race bikes in what appears to be the UK...in 1949...Shirley Shum Mishtake
 
I forget who it was, maybe thumpa? Who posted that Rossi was joking with Marquez when making the comments and didn't look at him because he couldnt keep a straight face, and Lorenzo looked like a kid who'd just been told their dog had died. Well in fact Rossi was deadly serious to the Italian media right after the press conference and was anything but joking, in fact, he was whining like a little .....:

MotoGP News - MotoGP Malaysia: Marquez mystified by Rossi attack

Ambushed by Valentino Rossi's allegations on Thursday, Marc Marquez got his chance to respond after opening practice at Sepang.

Marquez had appeared unsure whether Rossi was joking as he sat smiling alongside the Italian in the pre-event press conference, whilst claims were made that the Honda rider had tried to help Rossi's title rival Jorge Lorenzo at Phillip Island last Sunday.

Any doubts about Rossi's seriousness were swiftly erased when the Yamaha rider criticised Marquez far more harshly - including producing lap times as 'evidence' - when talking to the Italian media.

Whilst that was happening, Marquez was performing his own media duties to the Spanish press and was thus unaware of Rossi's further comments. Speaking to a handful of English-speaking media in the Repsol Honda hospitality on Friday, the outgoing double MotoGP champion got his chance to respond.

“After some hours, I'm still surprised like I think everybody,” Marquez began. “Of course I respect Valentino and I will respect always, but I understand also his situation. That he is fighting for the title, he is really close to getting his tenth title, but he knows Jorge is really strong. So for that reason I prefer to be out of this battle.

“Of course yesterday [Rossi] pushed to me, but in the end he needs to beat Jorge on the racetrack. I don't want to be inside [the battle between them] but in the end I'm doing my race. I think what I did in Phillip Island was the best, which was win the race and take 25 points for my team, sponsors and factory.

“I will try to do the same here and Valencia. Try to win. Of course if I cannot win I'll try to finish second, or third. Like I say before the Phillip Island race, I will try to do my 100%.”

Among the long list of allegations made by Rossi was that Marquez is still angry about their clashes at Argentina and Assen, is “thinking like a child” and that “the lesser evil is for him is for Lorenzo to win [the title].”

“I didn't lose any respect [for Rossi] because in the end I understand his situation,” Marquez said. “Even if you are Valentino, Jorge, Marc or Dani - when you are fighting for the title, remain two races, 11 points. After a year like that everybody feel the pressure.

“Like I say I don't want to be inside of this battle. I want to give to them the show inside the track and have a great battle between him and Jorge. But of course there is the possibility that me, Dani, Andrea will be in the middle. Maybe it will be a good thing for Valentino, maybe a good thing for Jorge.

“But in the end everybody here is doing his race and, as I said at Phillip Island before the race, he is not a team-mate that is fighting for the title. So just I will do my race and I will try to finish first and if that is not possible second, third.”

Why do you think Rossi has brought you into the battle?

“I don't know, new strategy no?!” Marquez smiled. “I was really surprised because at Phillip Island in the end I won the race. I did an incredible last lap, taking a risk to overtake Lorenzo in the downhill after a hot lap that always is difficult.

“You know, in the end I respect him and maybe it is a new strategy, we don't know. Only Valentino knows but like I say of course I understand and respect [him], but he needs to beat Jorge on the track and I think Valentino is strong enough to beat Jorge on the track.

“He is leading the championship by 11 points. He knows if he finishes just behind or in front of [Lorenzo] he will win the championship, so he doesn't need to be worried.”

Did Rossi say anything to you after the race at Phillip Island?

“Yeah we already speak because, you know, outside of the European races always there is a small party and we were there. We speak and he asked me about the race and everything, but he was not like this. Just he said to me, 'why the last lap was so fast? Why you push in the middle of the race, then Jorge overtake you?

“But it is like I say, I tried to manage the race, manage my situation, my tyres, my front tyre and in the end do the best and my target was win the race. Doesn't matter how, if by five seconds or by one millisecond.”

Did you feel angry about the comments from Valentino?

“I'm not angry because like I say at the first moment that I heard that I don't want to be inside of this [title] battle. But this doesn't mean that maybe here, Valencia - we don't know because it can happen - maybe Pedrosa, Iannone, me will be in-between and Jorge and Valentino.

“Maybe it will be a help for Valentino and maybe it will be a help for Jorge, but in the end everybody is doing his own race and everybody is trying to get the best result for his team and sponsors.”

Marquez concluded: “In the end he [Rossi] knows that if he is doing a great job and finishes just behind Jorge or in front he will win the championship. If he did this in other races he can do it now. So for that reason I was surprised and I don't understand.

“But OK in the end I respect [him], I know that Valentino is really good in the press conferences and outside the track, but he needs to beat Jorge on the track not me.”

Like Marquez, many in the paddock are still unsure as to the exact motive behind Rossi's comments. One theory is that The Doctor is putting public pressure on Marquez to ensure he either beats both Movistar Yamahas, or finishes behind them both, in the remaining races.

Either of those scenarios would favour Rossi, who can afford to finish one place behind Lorenzo in each of the remaining rounds, even if the #99 wins, and still take the title. The worst case scenario for Rossi is to be beaten by Lorenzo, with another rider in-between.

Marquez, with five wins this year, is the lead candidate to split the M1s in such a way.

Throw in some apparently long held suspicions - Rossi said Marquez choosing to pass him at the Corkscrew in 2013 was the “first signal” - plus some see-sawing lap times at Phillip Island and Rossi may have concluded that forcing Marquez to effectively 'prove' he isn't helping Lorenzo is no bad thing.

Marquez was speaking after finishing third fastest in Friday practice at Sepang, setting a best lap time just 0.226s slower than Lorenzo. Team-mate Pedrosa was second quickest with Rossi in eighth.

Marquez won at Sepang last season, with Pedrosa victorious in 2012 and 2013.
 
Marquez race laptimes in PI, which Rossi was showing to the Italian press...

AU1378030.jpg
 
And another image - a comparison of average sector times which clearly shows Marquez slower that Lorenzo in sectors 1,2 ans 3 but substantially faster in sector 4.
 

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Overlay that Marquez graph with VRs laptimes.
I remember M being pretty ragged into Honda several times...

Ahhh. .... it. I gotta stay out of this ........ hypothesis.
 
Wow what an epic Rossi meltdown. Bizarre. Att during the race it looked to me if anything mm was trying to give vr a tow to catch up to JLo? I think mm always had that one quick lap in him, for once it seams he's figured it's best not to crash trying to match JLo early in the race and save that all out effort for the last lap. I have to admit give credit where it's due, was bloody great riding by mm. Also the moaning how fast the Ducati is rears its ugly head again. Where were the other super fast Ducatis? Nowhere, up front were two slow Yamaha's. Just one of them has a guy who's getting old and sounding more like Biaggi every day. Give the Yamaha to Ionnie I say.
 
Also I just thought of it when MM went for the last lap pass JLo should have refused to concede and bumped into him so he could cut the last long long final corner to win the race, claiming he had no where else to go?
 
I'm starting to think this meltdown was directed at Iannone. "Let me show you Joe what happens to people who cross me. Now this time I'll save you by telling my fans to forgive you, but just look what I can do to the masses. Sit back and watch. Now don't ....... dare to beat me again the next to races or you will be on your own with the Yellow vindictive Army."
b39da8d5228024c79b0f95017628b1b6.jpg

Why not? Rossi is after all this mind-boggling headgame MASTERMIND!
 
A possible flaw in your argument is that if anyone has been given the tyre which suits him this year it is Jorge Lorenzo, although why the tyre was taken away previously is another question.

The possibility also exists that Valentino is actually better than Agostini or even Doohan, particularly since Mick Doohan himself has said he believes this to be so. I also think the HRC engineers and MM are entirely capable of stuffing up the bike without any assistance.

I think Doohan is being a nice guy now, and if he said he believed he was better than Rossi, it would create a media shitstorm, and he's not a guy who exactly was known for his love of the media. I think he's just being politically correct, as opposed to Nigel Mansell who recently said he could match Lewis Hamilton's laptimes in the 2015 Mercedes W06 F1 car in spite of having last raced in F1 in 1995.

I do not believe for one second Valentino is better than either Doohan or Agostini....well perhaps Agostini. But I would disagree about Doohan since we've got far more good quality footage of Doohan in his prime to look at for reference. I'd argue he had just as much will and motivation as Rossi...if not more. What he did in coming back from that horrific crash in Assen, and going on to win 5 straight world championships ranks as a monumental achievement. He was facing amputation of his leg which would have ended his career, and instead he recovers, and eventually a couple of years later wins the title which he would have won in 1992 had things gone differently...then reels off another 4 titles. Who knows what might have been had he stuck around for the full duration of the 1999 season.

Sure the engineers and MM are capable of ....... up the Honda regardless, but they've been on a good run since 2011, and then suddenly to drop in performance during the first half at a time when the rules are relatively stable? Seems odd to me.

That aside, Rossi was done after the 2009 season. He hasn't won a world title in nearly 6 years, though he is on the cusp of doing so now. Casey Stoner who is retired has won a world title more recently than VR....and the thing is, VR --to contrary opinions-- is not an alien in spite of those hands of his. Winning a world title 6 years after one wouldn't in itself be outrageous if we are talking the age of 30 or even 31, because then that would put the last one at age 24 or 25. But when the last title came at 30, and then to be in the running at 36? Peculiar.
 

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