Joined May 2009
6K Posts | 4K+
Shovel's Club
Any love? Im gonna be riding the whole coast, would be great to drop in on him. [email protected]
IG adam narnst
Joined Sep 2015
734 Posts | 1K+
Office cubicle
Thanks for the bump, bot (remember to report them), I was gonna reply here.
Seems like Vale is still seething:
Mind you, this is a guy in his mid 40s who recently had a child and he's still throwing tantrums for something that happened in his own head nearly 10 years ago. He's gonna die a very sad man despite all of his accomplishments because he can't let go of that time the entire reality didn't bend itself to satisfy his ego.
Seems like Vale is still seething:
Mind you, this is a guy in his mid 40s who recently had a child and he's still throwing tantrums for something that happened in his own head nearly 10 years ago. He's gonna die a very sad man despite all of his accomplishments because he can't let go of that time the entire reality didn't bend itself to satisfy his ego.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
"You're embarassing yourself, you will be remembered for this".
Oh, the ironing!
Oh, the ironing!
By 2015, Marquez had already won two championships, and he was probably already contemplating the possibility of tying or beating Rossi's championship tally. If Marc wasn't thinking about it, you know people like Puig were giving him the wind up.
The most scandalous aspect of the 2015 conflagration was that Vale errantly attributed Marc's actions as being in the service of Spain, rather than being reasonable self-serving actions taken by a competitor. He's slowly backed away from those claims, but it's a bit shocking that Rossi still doesn't acknowledge that Marquez' actions at Malaysia have furthered his attempt to tie or eclipse Valentino's record. Maybe Rossi is panicking because he sees Ducati and an Italian IRTA team coming to Marc's aid. I'm not sure.
I appreciate Vale's desire to keep national pride at the forefront in MotoGP. It's good fun, and it can push the sport forward, but he has an unhealthy obsession with his standing in history.
The most scandalous aspect of the 2015 conflagration was that Vale errantly attributed Marc's actions as being in the service of Spain, rather than being reasonable self-serving actions taken by a competitor. He's slowly backed away from those claims, but it's a bit shocking that Rossi still doesn't acknowledge that Marquez' actions at Malaysia have furthered his attempt to tie or eclipse Valentino's record. Maybe Rossi is panicking because he sees Ducati and an Italian IRTA team coming to Marc's aid. I'm not sure.
I appreciate Vale's desire to keep national pride at the forefront in MotoGP. It's good fun, and it can push the sport forward, but he has an unhealthy obsession with his standing in history.
I don't think Puig was involved with the Repsol team in 2015. Suppo was still the team manager at that staged.
IIRC Rossi did mention at the time that Marquez did it because it means there is one less title for him to catch up. I don't think that the PI race has any basis in reality. Hell, if you read through this very thread, all the Rossi fans were blushing about how Marquez was trying to help him catch up to Lorenzo and then pulled the pin when he realised that Rossi didn't have the pace.
I agree Rossi is panicked, he definitely doesn't want Marquez to have the same number or titles as him. He knows that Marquez won his titles in a harder era of the GP.
My view has always been that MM decided not to interfere with the contenders overly at PI 2015, then took the win when he saw the chance to do so. It possibly taught him a new approach, given the bike that year seemed to be skittish with a full fuel load causing him to crash out of races 5 or 6 times before Sepang trying to dominate races from the start as had been his previous wont. As I recall if he had settled for the positions he was in when he crashed out he would have won the title himself regardless.
MM according to his manager apparently had gripes about the Argentina and Assen races that year which he didn't take to the press, not really justified imo as Rossi was much faster than him at Argentina and he was never going to be able to take back and maintain his previous position, and he was legitimately outsmarted at Assen, although Povol iirc gave some credence to Rossi having helped with MM crashing out at Argentina.
He was by all accounts genuinely incensed about Rossi's accusations/calling him a cheat at the Sepang press conference, and I believe decided to show Valentino what interfering with a contender really looked like by pretty much re-enacting Valentino's duel with Lorenzo at Motegi 2010 and turning Rossi's career long tactic of the immediate re-pass back on him. Whatever his ulterior motives may have been he did race Valentino legally for position as a rider is always allowed to do and RD found that he had done. Without going too deep Rossi probably gained a net 3 points in the race as I don't think he was going to finish 3rd otherwise and particularly not if MM was faster than him as he pretty much claimed.
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Could you please explain this to me? When I watch that crash I do not see Rossi being at fault. Didn't Marc's front wheel contact Rossi's rear? My memory is not so good but that's what I remember.
Puig was HRC's talent scout, and he was running some of their talent cup activities. I don't know whether he had more or less influence in the Repsol paddock, but he did become team manager, and I had always assumed that he managed to form/maintain a relationship with Marc.
J in
That was another poster’s opinion at the time, one who was very knowledgeable about bike racing, and known to Lex which is why I mentioned him. I personally thought it was futile and poor judgement for MM to contest the pass, Valentino was much faster and had caught up several seconds, but only saw a replay.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
Rockstar syndrome. Dorna are also partly responsible for this monster they helped create.
I also agree. It's akin to a cult.
Idk if that's a new one or the same interview that has been posted on here before but what a POS Rossi is.
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I won’t comment on current threads out of respect for some excellent newer posters, but this reads to me as though he and Uccio and perhaps a couple of others in the inner circle have fixated on the 2015 season and gone over and over the same ground for the last 9 years, a crazy object of obsession for a guy who has actually won 7/9 titles, and made a better attempt at winning a title in 2015 than any other 36 year old premier class GP rider of whom I am aware. It is something I can’t see MM doing at that age, I extremely doubt his body will hold up that long apart from anything else.
If he wants to make the case that the title was stolen by MM he needs evidence that he was better than the 4th fastest rider at PI, Sepang or Valencia, which doesn’t exist, particularly given his argument about Sepang 2015 rests on MM being faster than him. The claim that MM was toying with him and the rest of the field and had marked superiority other than the last laps and the last lap in particular at PI 2015 ignores that MM had crashed out of 5 previous races going too hard too early. Claiming that MM tried to crash him out of 3 or 4 races and that his sole object in 2015 was to thwart Valentino are even further out there imo, i rather think MM might have started the season wanting to win the title himself, and his actual problem was that he also wanted to win every race at that stage in his career.
Bottom line is that this is undignified above all else, with even Crash saying that continuing to prosecute this case may damage his legacy, the sport has or will move on from him and while his record still speaks for him this stuff doesn’t. His diehard fans are getting old and don’t need convincing anyway, while this is getting to be ancient history for newer fans.
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Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
100% agree. He increasingly comes across as bitter about this, and it will do him more harm than good.
It was 9 years ago, everyone who keeps bringing it up really needs to start living in the present. It was just a motorcycle series after all. Even Synn, who most of us know is a Rossi fan who has certainly earned my respect for his contributions here, is sick of hearing about it.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
I had to really think a bit before writing this post to try and recall my memories from a long time ago.
Way way back in the halcyon days of 2002, when I was younger and had hair, I was more focused on Formula One and 4 wheel road racing in general.
But I was well aware of Valentino and how good he was. I did not very often get to see GP races at all, or international race series in general no matter the discipline. I had no particular qualms with him. I didn't really pay attention to the inner machinations of GP bike racing as it wasn't a particular focus to me. I felt every single title he won whether it was on the 500cc NSR, the V5 Honda, or the Yamaha were won quite fair and square. I will never begrudge him memorable rides such as Donington 2005. I recall @Arrabbiata1 stating something to the effect that it was one of the finest rides he ever witnessed in person. I was shocked though in particular in 2006 when Nicky Hayden beat him to the title, and sort of viewed it as a bit of an anomaly in the larger overall picture. But then the following year that particularly mercurial 21 year old Australian decisively won the title. I still can recall the end of lap 1 at Losail when they came through the final corner onto the main straight, and we saw the true power of the Ducati 800 absolutely destroy every other GP bike. I took a bit more notice since I hadn't expected any other than a VR championship. 2008 and 2009 occurred which for me remain his finest premier class world title championship wins. I was still focused heavily on Formula 1 at that time but I was slowly becoming disenchanted with the series and the general quality of the on-track racing. I began to pay a bit more attention to GP as I was looking for a better racing product, and I was quite enamored with GP bikes. A late friend of mine who was quite a follower of GP racing started giving me more background information on the series and what was going on since I was rather lazy at the time when it came to seeking out news beyond the on-track results. He clued me in on the subtle undercurrent running through GP as it related to Valentino that betrayed a certain...unpleasantness. However it was something I chalked up to the ultra-competitive nature of professional motorsports as I was certainly not a stranger to this sort of thing over all of the years that I followed Formula One.
2015 was really where I was forced to reconsider my thoughts on Valentino in general as the unpleasantness that was not discussed except in smaller circles such as places like this, came out from behind closed doors into the open. When Phillip Island 2015 happened, I considered it, and still do consider it to be one of the finest motor races I have ever witnessed live. I was absolutely buzzing from the thrill of what unfolded on the track that day. When Marc pulled off that that final lap charge to steal victory from Jorge Lorenzo, it was the perfect ending to an absolutely sensational race. I was hardly prepared for what happened when the circus arrived in Sepang for the Malaysian Grand Prix. The pre-race press conference is burned into my memory. I still maintain it was the ravings of a lunatic that occurred as it was absolutely illogical to listen to.
Then the race happened.
I don't need to go through rehashing this. I will say, every ounce of respect I had for Valentino was lost that day. It completely turned every thought I ever had of him on it's head and spun it around. Frankly, what came out of his mouth before the race, and after the race, in no way matched up with any known reality I could even subscribe to. All I saw from that point on was an extremely bitter man who was unable to accept that while he was certainly close to winning that elusive 10th title, he did not have the speed down the home stretch which was an absolute imperative were he to clinch the title. I will go to my grave believing that he should have been black-flagged at Sepang, and been given a race ban from Valencia.
What I did not expect was his insistence on doubling down on easily disproven narratives and his need to try and utilize every unsavory behavior he deployed in bygone years against Marc. Did Marc .... with him at Sepang? I will never know, but I do know every single one of those overtakes he made was clean as a baby's bottom.
We come to this recent interview of his where he decided to not only rehash grievances from 9 seasons ago. Much like the infamous Sepang press conference, these are the ravings of an absolute lunatic. If he had said a sentence or two and moved onto other topics, I doubt too many people would have given it much of a thought. But his need to through the season in chronological order in an effort to somehow bolster his original lunatic claims from a decade ago, has completely destroyed his entire legacy in my opinion. I will never write favorably about him again. Neither will a lot of other people.
I do think that several things occurred that led to this latest airing of grievances relating to his never-ending vendetta against Marc.
First, I do not think he expected Marc to pull off the move he did to land the factory Ducati seat over Jorge Martin. Second, he seems to live vicariously through Pecco, and I think he sees everything going up in smoke now that Marc will be on the other side of that garage. Thirdly, Marc winning on the Ducati multiple times while his team's riders cannot even get close to Marc, even though both of their riders heading into 2024 were far more experienced with riding the Desmosedici. I believe once again Marc broke Valentino completely this year because he stopped flapping his mouth about how he taught Pecco to race Marc earlier in the 2024 season.
Hard to believe a guy with the resume he has turned out to be as fragile as china when a different breed of rider came along, who gave as good as he takes.
Way way back in the halcyon days of 2002, when I was younger and had hair, I was more focused on Formula One and 4 wheel road racing in general.
But I was well aware of Valentino and how good he was. I did not very often get to see GP races at all, or international race series in general no matter the discipline. I had no particular qualms with him. I didn't really pay attention to the inner machinations of GP bike racing as it wasn't a particular focus to me. I felt every single title he won whether it was on the 500cc NSR, the V5 Honda, or the Yamaha were won quite fair and square. I will never begrudge him memorable rides such as Donington 2005. I recall @Arrabbiata1 stating something to the effect that it was one of the finest rides he ever witnessed in person. I was shocked though in particular in 2006 when Nicky Hayden beat him to the title, and sort of viewed it as a bit of an anomaly in the larger overall picture. But then the following year that particularly mercurial 21 year old Australian decisively won the title. I still can recall the end of lap 1 at Losail when they came through the final corner onto the main straight, and we saw the true power of the Ducati 800 absolutely destroy every other GP bike. I took a bit more notice since I hadn't expected any other than a VR championship. 2008 and 2009 occurred which for me remain his finest premier class world title championship wins. I was still focused heavily on Formula 1 at that time but I was slowly becoming disenchanted with the series and the general quality of the on-track racing. I began to pay a bit more attention to GP as I was looking for a better racing product, and I was quite enamored with GP bikes. A late friend of mine who was quite a follower of GP racing started giving me more background information on the series and what was going on since I was rather lazy at the time when it came to seeking out news beyond the on-track results. He clued me in on the subtle undercurrent running through GP as it related to Valentino that betrayed a certain...unpleasantness. However it was something I chalked up to the ultra-competitive nature of professional motorsports as I was certainly not a stranger to this sort of thing over all of the years that I followed Formula One.
2015 was really where I was forced to reconsider my thoughts on Valentino in general as the unpleasantness that was not discussed except in smaller circles such as places like this, came out from behind closed doors into the open. When Phillip Island 2015 happened, I considered it, and still do consider it to be one of the finest motor races I have ever witnessed live. I was absolutely buzzing from the thrill of what unfolded on the track that day. When Marc pulled off that that final lap charge to steal victory from Jorge Lorenzo, it was the perfect ending to an absolutely sensational race. I was hardly prepared for what happened when the circus arrived in Sepang for the Malaysian Grand Prix. The pre-race press conference is burned into my memory. I still maintain it was the ravings of a lunatic that occurred as it was absolutely illogical to listen to.
Then the race happened.
I don't need to go through rehashing this. I will say, every ounce of respect I had for Valentino was lost that day. It completely turned every thought I ever had of him on it's head and spun it around. Frankly, what came out of his mouth before the race, and after the race, in no way matched up with any known reality I could even subscribe to. All I saw from that point on was an extremely bitter man who was unable to accept that while he was certainly close to winning that elusive 10th title, he did not have the speed down the home stretch which was an absolute imperative were he to clinch the title. I will go to my grave believing that he should have been black-flagged at Sepang, and been given a race ban from Valencia.
What I did not expect was his insistence on doubling down on easily disproven narratives and his need to try and utilize every unsavory behavior he deployed in bygone years against Marc. Did Marc .... with him at Sepang? I will never know, but I do know every single one of those overtakes he made was clean as a baby's bottom.
We come to this recent interview of his where he decided to not only rehash grievances from 9 seasons ago. Much like the infamous Sepang press conference, these are the ravings of an absolute lunatic. If he had said a sentence or two and moved onto other topics, I doubt too many people would have given it much of a thought. But his need to through the season in chronological order in an effort to somehow bolster his original lunatic claims from a decade ago, has completely destroyed his entire legacy in my opinion. I will never write favorably about him again. Neither will a lot of other people.
I do think that several things occurred that led to this latest airing of grievances relating to his never-ending vendetta against Marc.
First, I do not think he expected Marc to pull off the move he did to land the factory Ducati seat over Jorge Martin. Second, he seems to live vicariously through Pecco, and I think he sees everything going up in smoke now that Marc will be on the other side of that garage. Thirdly, Marc winning on the Ducati multiple times while his team's riders cannot even get close to Marc, even though both of their riders heading into 2024 were far more experienced with riding the Desmosedici. I believe once again Marc broke Valentino completely this year because he stopped flapping his mouth about how he taught Pecco to race Marc earlier in the 2024 season.
Hard to believe a guy with the resume he has turned out to be as fragile as china when a different breed of rider came along, who gave as good as he takes.
My memory of the race 9 years on is, at the time, it appeared to me Marc had the speed to leave Rossi behind but somehow he was always close to Rossi, “....... with him.” Part of me still believes that Marc knew he had the pace to win the race and when it was time to go, he did. Whether or not this is correct is irrelevant at this point. Now part of me wants Marc to come out and say it, whether or not it’s true. Just say it so Rossi will seethe even more. “You think I toyed with you? Yes, I did and do you know why? I did it because I could! I’m Marc ....... Marquez, that’s why!” I know Marc would never do this but I wouldn’t mind it if he did.
That was one of Dani Pedrosa's weekends when nobody was going to beat him. If MM was faster than Valentino as he has pretty much claimed then Valentino was going to finish 4th at Sepang 2015, so his contretemps with MM gained him a net 3 points and allowed him to take a 7 point lead going into Valencia. What he really didn't want imo was to go to Valencia, a bogey track where he lost the 2006 title, in a points situation which would allow Lorenzo to win the title just by beating him in the race. I saw no evidence that he was other than the 4th fastest rider at Valencia 2015, just as I saw no evidence he had the pace of Pedrosa or Lorenzo at Sepang 2015.
It's too late to edit my post above about Marc and ....... with Rossi, but my post was referring to the PI race and NOT Sepang. Sorry 'bout that.
I think most of us knew you were talking about PI.
And I would love to see ,MM say it.
Sorry, should have realised you meant PI 2015. You perhaps neglect that MM had crashed out of 5 previous races, which is why he was out of championship contention, and he often didn’t have the bike to dominate for a whole race as he did in 2014. He also subsequently won races at PI by a similar tactic of not going all out early in races. He has often had a single banzai lap in him like the last laps at Assen 2015 and PI 2015, or his qualifying lap for Sepang 2015 for that matter. Trying to ride multiple such laps is what frequently brought him undone in 2015 as I said, and I don’t see why he was obliged to keep riding his races that way because it had helped Rossi gain the lead in the championship, which seems to more or less be the implication from the Valentino camp. Iirc Valentino himself in 2015 often qualified down the grid and came through the field late; did he have a patent on that method such that no one else was allowed to employ it ?. Valentino’s qualifying issues were his problem alone of course. My personal theory is that MM at PI 2015 pretty much decided not to overly interfere with the contenders and didn’t contest Lorenzo early in the race when his bike was skittish, then found the bike came to him late in the race and took the win when it was available to him, in the process finding another way to win which he employed subsequently.
In any case a racer is always entitled to contest a competitor legally for a position in any form of motorsport as you imply, so MM can race a competitor however he likes by legal methods, as he undoubtedly did at both PI 2015 and Sepang 2015, and if he was too fast for Rossi that is Rossi’s problem. The boot had been on the other foot with Rossi on many occasions, enforcing a Gibernau curse at Jerez 2005, “that’s racing” after an off track excursion at Laguna Seca 2008 when Casey Stoner on the track on the racing line only avoided being torpedoed at high speed by drastic evasive action which was entirely down to him with the outcome not in Rossi’s control, proving a point to Jorge Lorenzo at Motegi 2010 etc. Valentino in his pomp before Lorenzo and Stoner not very arguably made a career of “toying “ with other riders and was acclaimed for doing so.
In any case my issue in 2015 was not greatly to do with MM who gives as good as he gets, has been careless on occasion himself, and can look after himself, although I did admire how he stood up as no rider had done previously and in fact seemed to garner extra motivation from all the argybargy. What that Sepang press conference and Rossi calling the Valeban off Iannone and unleashing them on MM proved to me was that Rossi was in control of the Valeban and had deliberately used them, his media clout and perhaps even to an extent his sway with those running the sport as weapons against his competitors, particularly Stoner and Lorenzo of whom I was a fan and who imo in no way deserved to be made miserable for the sin of beating Valentino.
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