MotoGP: 2015 Round 15 - Motul Grand Prix of Japan (SPOILERS)

J4rn0 · Oct 11, 2015

I don't think that Rossi saved his tires on purpose -- nobody knew if rain would stop or not. It's just that when your setup is not optimal for the conditions you tend to go a little slower, and that may save your tires; then, if and when conditions change, "magically" propel you forward in the final stages while others who were faster have to slow down.

This involuntary tire saving is what happened to Pedrosa in particular, less to Rossi who had tried to follow Lorenzo and so used his tires to a good extent (his lap times showed deterioration 3 or 4 laps later than Lorenzo's).

Following Pedrosa did help Rossi, by his own admission; but he rode also better than Jorge on finished tires -- Jorge made that big mistake at turn 3, almost ending up in the gravel, while Rossi managed it to the finish without mistakes. This is what makes his second place a well deserved one.

Keshav · Oct 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
I don't think that Rossi saved his tires on purpose -- nobody knew if rain would stop or not. It's just that when your setup is not optimal for the conditions you tend to go a little slower, and that may save your tires; then, if and when conditions change, "magically" propel you forward in the final stages while others who were faster have to slow down.

This involuntary tire saving is what happened to Pedrosa in particular, less to Rossi who had tried to follow Lorenzo and so used his tires to a good extent (his lap times showed deterioration 3 or 4 laps later than Lorenzo's).

Following Pedrosa did help Rossi, by his own admission; but he rode also better than Jorge on finished tires -- Jorge made that big mistake at turn 3, almost ending up in the gravel, while Rossi managed it to the finish without mistakes. This is what makes his second place a well deserved one.

I for one didn't mean to imply that Rossi was being a master tactician - but I think it's fair to say he was being pragmatic. Instinct born out of long experience has to be a factor as well.

I missed the interview part where Rossi said he was following Dani. Ironic (and yes lucky) because Dani said his having saved the tires for as long as he did was down to his being unable to get heat into them in the early laps. In the event - it was a great race. It looked so certain that Lornenzo was just going to run away with it - and up until Pedrosa started playing catch-up I was kind of sitting there twidling my thumbs waiting for it to be over.

feros · Oct 11, 2015

hey, first post here, dont know what kind of forum this is gonna be but well see,

"Pedrosa did help Rossi, by his own admission;"

tbh dont think that is true, these guys are top pros and you dont get to be there and get paid that amount of money yearly if you dont know how to hide your tactics.they almost never tell the truth in their interviews, (im gonna get back to this later)

"Jorge made that big mistake at turn 3"
this might be true but the thing is, jorge doesnt seem to like to be in a fight(dual) againt rossi, i think he just felt, ok, rossi is very close and if in this condition with these tire i get into a fight with him i might actually loose those 16 points too(like marquez,who couldve had at least 60 more points by now if he didnt battle too hard at some stages)

its probably because of rossi's mental strength,

the thing that bothers me a lot, is keep hearing from here and there that rossi is lucky(and others,lorenzo more than others is unlucky), i mean come on, this cant be luck when it keeps happening.

and i dont think he was following dani too, he was just doing his own lap time when he saw some slight chance he went for it.

the whole race to me from lorenzo and rossi perpective is like,
lorenzo was trying to prove to everyone that he can race in all condition, so from the start he started flying and thinking to himself im gonna dominate this one like the other ones i did, and after a few laps when he saw the gap he felt almost home,now even if there is any tire problem i can manage, which prove to be wrong(like marquez in argentina)

rossi at the start tried to follow lorenzo but saw that he was too fast, probably thinking to himself,ok, this guy has the same bike,same tire, and almost same Q2 record as me,he cant be THAT MUCH faster that me, so he probably is pushing too hard, so lets stick to the plan and with the way he is pushing and i got all the time in the world(20 laps), im gona catch on in the second half of the race. and tbh if dani wouldnt have come up with that extraordinary performance, rossi wouldve won this one. JUST BY BEING PATIENT AND CONSISTENT. but they never say those kinda thing in their interviews,do they?!

Dr No · Oct 11, 2015

propagandhi said:
Are you ....... toseland doc? Mechanical ,dawg. No binning it whatsoever

No. I have never had sexual relationships with that man.

(yeah, ...... up. Too many Tsingdao. But was pissed off that instead of seeing Dani's overtake, we saw Joe going into the gravel. Sentiment remains, pity he didn't finish)

Dr No · Oct 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Skill and Luck win titles only together. Never alone.

Agree.
Was more a comment on the Factory bike status quo than anything else.

J4rn0 · Oct 11, 2015

feros said:
hey, first post here, dont know what kind of forum this is gonna be but well see,

"Pedrosa did help Rossi, by his own admission;"

tbh dont think that is true, these guys are top pros and you dont get to be there and get paid that amount of money yearly if you dont know how to hide your tactics.they almost never tell the truth in their interviews, (im gonna get back to this later)

"Jorge made that big mistake at turn 3"
this might be true but the thing is, jorge doesnt seem to like to be in a fight(dual) againt rossi, i think he just felt, ok, rossi is very close and if in this condition with these tire i get into a fight with him i might actually loose those 16 points too(like marquez,who couldve had at least 60 more points by now if he didnt battle too hard at some stages)

its probably because of rossi's mental strength,

the thing that bothers me a lot, is keep hearing from here and there that rossi is lucky(and others,lorenzo more than others is unlucky), i mean come on, this cant be luck when it keeps happening.

and i dont think he was following dani too, he was just doing his own lap time when he saw some slight chance he went for it.

the whole race to me from lorenzo and rossi perpective is like,
lorenzo was trying to prove to everyone that he can race in all condition, so from the start he started flying and thinking to himself im gonna dominate this one like the other ones i did, and after a few laps when he saw the gap he felt almost home,now even if there is any tire problem i can manage, which prove to be wrong(like marquez in argentina)

rossi at the start tried to follow lorenzo but saw that he was too fast, probably thinking to himself,ok, this guy has the same bike,same tire, and almost same Q2 record as me,he cant be THAT MUCH faster that me, so he probably is pushing too hard, so lets stick to the plan and with the way he is pushing and i got all the time in the world(20 laps), im gona catch on in the second half of the race. and tbh if dani wouldnt have come up with that extraordinary performance, rossi wouldve won this one. JUST BY BEING PATIENT AND CONSISTENT. but they never say those kinda thing in their interviews,do they?!

Welcome feros,
interesting observations. I have to say that (as a personal preference) I choose to believe what riders say, unless proven false by facts or contradictory to other statements of their own, because otherwise one has to second guess every word and it all becomes a little paranoid. And after many years I find that they tell the truth more often than not -- remember that they cannot really deceive the other riders nor the people who work in the paddock, and if any of them consistently lie they would lose respect. There are many things they never say, of course, but what they do say has to figure.

What I agree completely with, is that Lorenzo always shows a will to demonstrate something. He is supremely confident in his own skill, and that can lead him to mistakes born from an excess of confidence. He also doesn't have Rossi's "panoramic" vision during a race -- he seems to go into a kind of tunnel vision with 120% concentration, and if everything goes well that laser focus can make him almost unbeatable. But if circumstances go against the plan he can lose concentration and make mistakes (even silly ones). He insists he's the fastest and calls bad luck all events that go against his plans, but even if speed is paramount in racing, it is definitely not the only quality required. He may be fastest (until Marquez sorts out his current problems), but he's not the strongest one out there.

#22 · Oct 12, 2015

Jumkie said:
.... you rain!

My sentiments exactly.

Here's my take: Dorna is making a big conspiracy. Yes to help VR their cash cow to win the title but also to help the economy of Wales. Motegi, Misano and Silverstone have all been wet this year. Silverstone isn't much of a surprise but the last wet Japanese GP was 2009 and the last wet Misano was well...decades ago. Here's the conspiracy theory: Silverstone, Misano and Japan secretly had replica's built this year in rainy Wales (where it rains most of the time) and all 3 races were in fact held in the South Wales Valleys with extras flown in to make it look genuine. This was in recompense for not getting the COW built and would also double up in helping Rossi

.

But seriously, as a Jorge fan I'm pissed that rain keeps well...raining on his parade. But props to Dani for whooping tail, and Rossi to be fair managed his tyres better. Still, 3 races and 75 points to go! Rossi is due a DNF too, though I'd hate in a way for the title to be decided that way.

propagandhi said:
He was awesome in the national championship but jesus....not the sharpest tool in the shed. Forget the gym,this guy needs access to a library

And you think Marquez is smart? Look at his eyes, there's nothing there. These guys don't need to be philosophers to ride bikes fast.

JPSLotus said:
I know a few people like VR, in that while not everything goes right, more often than not it does.

It's a gift I think...or divine intervention.

Indeed.

propagandhi said:
Sheezus. The only rider to ever get lucky in a wc was stoner when he got on that rocketship in 07.

To be fair, I think the only thing lucky about Stoner that yr was that the 'rocketship' didn't kill him. Where were all the other Ducati riders that year?

propagandhi · Oct 12, 2015

1. There are no dumb great racers. This holds true even at the kart track where I whoop many more naturally talented guys day in day out. Marquez surely isn't as dumb as we think. He's just an .......
2. In case you forgot : cliché is the biggest stoner boner on here. Casey winning on the gp7 in that fashion is the only thing equivalent to the ... .... that was the 95 f1 season

Dr No · Oct 12, 2015

Wash your ....

propagandhi · Oct 12, 2015

Tastes better that way tho

littlesparrows · Oct 12, 2015

Not gonna lie, when I heard it was gonna be a wet race...I thought to myself that Rossi is one lucky ........

However, I wasn't around to banter...was too busy enjoying this:

#22 · Oct 12, 2015

And you promised me photos Sparrah!!

#22 · Oct 12, 2015

propagandhi said:
1. There are no dumb great racers. This holds true even at the kart track where I whoop many more naturally talented guys day in day out. Marquez surely isn't as dumb as we think. He's just an .......
2. In case you forgot : cliché is the biggest stoner boner on here. Casey winning on the gp7 in that fashion is the only thing equivalent to the ... .... that was the 95 f1 season

You ain't met me yet

I'd disagree, Marquez is a damned fast rider, but I don't think he's hugely intelligent in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not as intelligent as say Rossi.

What? You single out 95 as the biggest ... ....? I'd easily say 14 and possibly 15 out ...-..... them all. Not to mention 2002-2004 Schumacher era...didn't he finish every race in 2003 on the podium? Snore!

feros · Oct 12, 2015

@J4rn0

tnx,

i didnt mean they LIE, but as you said they never tell the whole story, cuz then they would be kinda disrespectful toward other riders and they might sound like a smart ...,..
for instance i heard rossi saying "i never choose the tire based on how long they are gonna last,i choose the tires that im comfortable with during practice"(i think this was after argentina), but we all know thats not the whole story. another example is qatar against dovi, 3 laps to go, he is in front, on the first lap he saw that dovi can overtake him easily on that long straight line, so on the next lap he put some distance between himself and dovi just to see if the same thing happens again, and yes, Ducati still can overtake him, so on the last lap he knew other that that distance he needs something more which in that case was, powering his ride sooner from the end of the corner, but we never hear him say that stuff, and in this case, ofcourse he is not gonna say with the way jorge was riding i knew i could take him on the last few laps, so he says dani dragged me to jorge, they are not lying but they are subtle...,

L8Braker · Oct 12, 2015

Jumkie said:
I wonder if the VR fans will acknowledge this has got to be the luckiest ever title. Every single thing that could go right for VR and wrong for the contenders has happened.

RJ....No no, lets wait and see if it happens, if it does we know who he takes the luckiest man alive crown from.

Dr No · Oct 12, 2015

littlesparrows said:
Not gonna lie, when I heard it was gonna be a wet race...I thought to myself that Rossi is one lucky ........

However, I wasn't around to banter...was too busy enjoying this:

Please start another thread in this.
With photos.
And minimum Hipster.

littlesparrows · Oct 12, 2015

Dr No said:
Please start another thread in this.

With photos.

And minimum Hipster.

Such my ..... I do what I want.

Dr No · Oct 12, 2015

Ride a bike.

propagandhi · Oct 12, 2015

Yeah doc,suck her fat ....

Jumkie · Oct 12, 2015

littlesparrows said:
Not gonna lie, when I heard it was gonna be a wet race...I thought to myself that Rossi is one lucky ........

However, I wasn't around to banter...was too busy enjoying this:

Love the pic, tell us more please. Looks cool.

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