Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017

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JPSLotus said:
I agree....I still can't understand this long fascination Ducati had with Lorenzo. Unless they thought signing him would give them insight into how Yamaha develops/builds their chassis and maybe they are hoping to mimic that. Can't really think of any other good reason to have been so intent on signing Lorenzo away when he depends so much on stability out of a bike.
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Watching how Zarco rides the Yamaha around I wonder if he could be a possible target for Ducati?
 
p4p1 said:
It's obvious that the Honda is far too reliant on the front end. Their riders have to take more risks than the Yamahas and that is leading to mistakes from all top riders. The Yamaha like it or not MV is the best bike on the grid by a good way. But Vinaeles is destroying everyone right now so his dominance is not just down to the bike. But All 4 Yamahas were in the top 6, from where I'm standing it looks like Lorenzo(due to his inability to adapt when he can't get good front end feeling) and Rossi have been underperforming on the Yamaha. Smith and Pol made the bike look far worse than it was and Zarco/Folger are showing that the great package that tech 3 have had for a long time never actually stopped being an excellent package.

Stoner in an interview said that some guys are being too front end reliant with the Michelins and that in the end it's very hard to ride them that way.

It's a long season to yet, 37 points with 16 races to go is .... all and Marquez and team will know that, Honda will have their .... relatively sorted pretty soon. The championship is far from over.
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FWIW Dave Emmett said in an article that with Michelins the whole dynamic has shifted away from front end bias riding; in other words, Michelin front ends still suck.
 
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p4p1 said:
Watching how Zarco rides the Yamaha around I wonder if he could be a possible target for Ducati?
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No, I think he's on the fast track for the second factory seat should Rossi step down at the end of 2018. He's quickly improving as a rider, and I think should be considered a serious threat to win a grand prix in 2017.
 
JPSLotus said:
Kind of disappointing since it would have been nice to see the factory bikes take another step forward after last season, but it looks like the old Ducati step back.
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Torpedone would have still been a beast on it.
 
Marc pushed hard at the start because he was scared of Maverick's pace and wanted to build as big of gap as he could. Ride on the razor edge like that and there's a high risk of a mistake that'll put you down.
 
Little Walter said:
FWIW - Dave Emmett said in an article that with Michelins the whole dynamic has shifted away from front end bias riding; in other words - Michelin front ends still suck.
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With the rationale of, that's Michelin don't make front ends like Bridgestone. Which is ....... stupid in all reality, it's similar to not giving Ducati .... for making a .... bike by saying, well we don't build bikes like Yamaha.

FWIW Marquez following the crash started to say he didn't know what happened, then caught himself and said I must've made a mistake but still said he didn't know what it was. Which would point to him doing nothing different than he had done on the previous laps but crashing amateurs. Something that is becoming far too common with Michelin.
 
JPSLotus said:
No, I think he's on the fast track for the second factory seat should Rossi step down at the end of 2018. He's quickly improving as a rider, and I think should be considered a serious threat to win a grand prix in 2017.
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Oh I don't think it's a good option for him at all. I agree he is probably a great guy for Yamaha to partner with Maverick. I'm just saying he could be a decent target for Ducati.
 
Anyone else think that KTM and Suzuki dropped the ball with their rider choices?

Smith and Pol won't do anything on the KTM no matter how good it is. Proof is Folger/Zarco and Crutchlow/Dovi before them. Suzuki would've been better keeping Aleix either over Rins or trying to sign Folger/Zarco over Rins.
 
p4p1 said:
Anyone else think that KTM and Suzuki dropped the ball with their rider choices?

Smith and Pol won't do anything on the KTM no matter how good it is. Proof is Folger/Zarco and Crutchlow/Dovi before them. Suzuki would've been better keeping Aleix either over Rins or trying to sign Folger/Zarco over Rins.
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I already stated Rins was a bad signing last year.

As far as KTM goes, I don't think their concern right now is having the strongest possible rider lineup, but to get the bike running so it can actually begin to challenge the other factories. No sense in trying to attract a top rider since the bike was always going to have teething issues that you want to get sorted out this year and next year. Realistically I don't see that bike being squared away till 2019, at which point maybe they can promote one of their Moto 2 riders depending on how they do. I have less of an issue with their rider selection than I do with Suzuki's selection of Rins. Iannone was understandable, Rins was not.
 
p4p1 said:
Oh I don't think it's a good option for him at all. I agree he is probably a great guy for Yamaha to partner with Maverick. I'm just saying he could be a decent target for Ducati.
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Ducati is a potential career killer. The Yamaha is a great match for his style.
 
p4p1 said:
Anyone else think that KTM and Suzuki dropped the ball with their rider choices?

Smith and Pol won't do anything on the KTM no matter how good it is. Proof is Folger/Zarco and Crutchlow/Dovi before them. Suzuki would've been better keeping Aleix either over Rins or trying to sign Folger/Zarco over Rins.
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Neither has ever scored a point.
 
JPSLotus said:
Ducati is a potential career killer. The Yamaha is a great match for his style.
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Not to blag on about Stoner - but his successes were all about him, despite the bike. It was fortunate he got out when he did. Another season the Duc and he probably would have burned out altogether. Until they design an engine that allows for a shorter wheel base - they're not going to be in the hunt for any championships. Did you see the look on Lorenzo's face when he was walking back into the garage? He looked like someone who'd burned down his house and then remembered he'd forgot to pay the insurance premium.
 
Keshav said:
Not to blag on about Stoner - but his successes were all about him, despite the bike. It was fortunate he got out when he did. Another season the Duc and he probably would have burned out altogether. Until they design an engine that allows for a shorter wheel base - they're not going to be in the hunt for any championships. Did you see the look on Lorenzo's face when he was walking back into the garage? He looked like someone who'd burned down his house and then remembered he'd forgot to pay the insurance premium.
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I agree 100% about it being all about Stoner. Well I would say year 1 for him on the Ducati was the only time they gave him a semi-decent bike...which of course was all he ever really needed to win out there.

lol that look on his face was of doom. I'm still hoping he can pull something out this year, but it seems to be a tall order. He really needed to get laps in on that bike at that circuit in race conditions to try and get to grips with the bike further. Valuable experience down the drain. Hope COTA is kinder to the Ducati...well I think Dovi should be in contention there as he's rode well the past several years at the track. Lorenzo, who knows. Hope he has his bank account balance projected on the inside of his visor to remind him why he is there.
 
Cal just said he understands why Marc crashed... because he was pushing like an animal at the start.

Maverick is already in Marc's head and the pressure just cost Marc a DNF.
 
I enjoyed the race :) Made the 3am wakeup over here in western aus worth it haha

while of course id prefer Rossi to win being a fan, I'm genuinely happy for Vinales as he seems like a nice guy :)



Poor Dovi. that guy cant catch a break
 
moto vudu said:
Cal just said he understands why Marc crashed... because he was pushing like an animal at the start.

Maverick is already in Marc's head and the pressure just cost Marc a DNF.
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Got to say - I really dislike this meme. Marquez has demonstrated over the last few years that he's mentally tough. If Lorenzo and Rossi didn't bend him out of shape - it's highly unlikely Vinales will. It's pretty apparent that the Repsol bikes are far from sorted out.

I expect Marquez thought, given the way the Honda is handling presently - that his best bet was to go for the hole-shot and run away; but the bike just wasn't up to it. Did you see the way Pedrosa went down? He wasn't pushing that hard. Marquez's all-out attempt was I think, mighty impressive given how much he was struggling with the bike. Vinales' bike is clearly well sorted - and everybody is in a hurry to trash Marquez - but don't worry - they'll sort it out. I don't think either of them are going to run away with the championship. You can bet they're going to have a real rivalry.
 
Keshav said:
Got to say - I really dislike this meme. Marquez has demonstrated over the last few years that he's mentally tough. If Lorenzo and Rossi didn't bend him out of shape - it's highly unlikely Vinales will. It's pretty apparent that the Repsol bikes are far from sorted out.

I expect Marquez thought, given the way the Honda is handling presently - that his best bet was to go for the hole-shot and run away; but the bike just wasn't up to it. Did you see the way Pedrosa went down? He wasn't pushing that hard. Marquez's all-out attempt was I think, mighty impressive given how much he was struggling with the bike. Vinales' bike is clearly well sorted - and everybody is in a hurry to trash Marquez - but don't worry - they'll sort it out. I don't think either of them are going to run away with the championship. You can bet they're going to have a real rivalry.
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IMO, Marc knew Vinales was going to have a strong pace so he pushed 100% at the start desperate to create a gap and it bit him. It wasn't his bike nor the tires that cost him the race, it was his race strategy to take maximum risk right from the start because he feared Vinales chasing him down.

Sure I saw Pedrosa go down. You could see for a few laps leading up to Pedrosa's crash that he was getting out of shape on the brakes. The bike/tires were giving him warning that he was exceeding the limit, but Pedrosa was pushing to try to break away from the pack. Stiffer tire would've given him some better stability under braking, no wonder he asked for one. ;)
 
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