MotoGP: 2016 Round 18 - Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana (SPOILERS)

JPSLotus said:

Lorenzo had issues with the slicks at numerous times this season (as did the entire grid) to say otherwise, is to ignore the overall picture. But you see Vudu, today was proof of a few things, such as tire construction and it's ability to dictate outcomes, and equally important, Lorenzo was not mentally weak as you were quick to claim. Though, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how Rossi said he wasn't giving it his all on the Desmosedici. He admitted to not trying, yet I haven't seen you issue any condemnation of such things from someone who openly admitted not trying.

I cited a number of riders who pulled over for Rossi or did nothing to defend their own position.

Enjoy buddy, Marc Marquez is the 2016 world champion and the odds are looking good for a repeat in 2017. Lorenzo is going to do what Rossi couldn't at Ducati and win on the Desmosedici. Rossi will find himself trying to survive against his teammate, and will create another toxic environment at Yamaha when he starts losing.

I'm sure we can expect to see you apply your lofty high standards to call out others not named Lorenzo over similarly perceived matters on your end.

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Today was the norm for Lorenzo, he was fast in perfect conditions. For some reason you're under the impression Lorenzo's results today are because of a new tire Michelin provided even though Lorenzo's results this season show he has been fast in perfect conditions. The point you're attempting to make would be valid if it was a cold & wet race. You'll never find a single quote from me stating that Lorenzo has mental issues on a dry & warm track! It has always been YOUR argument that Lorenzo suffers on the Michelin tires (regardless of weather). Your argument has been wrong, but you're clinging to it because you think it supports your BS conspiracy that the tires specifically made to hurt Lorenzo.

Marquez was the best rider this year and deserves the championship. Maybe he'll repeat next year, maybe he won't. Next year could end up being his worst season.

Lorenzo is going to ride the 2011 - 2012 Ducati? If not, how is he going to do what Rossi couldn't do? You're just BSing man! For all we know Rossi could be capable of riding the GP17 better than Lorenzo!


- Claimed Lorenzo's win today on a dry track in perfect conditions proved I was wrong about Lorenzo having mental issues in the wet.

- Stated the obvious that Marquez is the champion like you believe that's supposed to upset me for some reason.

- Claimed if Lorenzo wins on the GP17 is proves he's better at riding the Desmosedici as if Ducati is still using the same bike from 2012.


3/10 trolling attempt. You can do better.


Haters gonna hate...

You're right the Ducati won one more race the year before Rossi jumped on. It didn't need rain or a track that's mostly straights to do it either.

Funny thing about Vudu posting Conor's post fight interview...

Like most things with Vudu, it flies right over his head.

McGregor said what he did because he can back up what he says...Vudu can't.

Have fun Vudu...you've never been interested in any serious discussion...look no further than his exchange with Arrab where he brought up his usual red herrings and straw men.

Enjoy the weekend...

JPSLotus said:

A lot of guys moved right out of Rossi's way once he was near close enough to make an overtake attempt, Hernandez, Bradl, Pirro, Smith, Petrucci...Aleix and Pol tried to defend...Dovi made Rossi work harder than anyone.

Haha...that's what a fact looks like...

I'm plenty interested in facts...

Rossi fans aren't...after all, they still hold onto the delusion that Lorenzo was mentally weak when it was tire construction that prevented his ability to be competitive. Your sidekick Vudu was proven completely wrong today about Lorenzo's supposed mental state...no mea culpa to be issued from him.

Too bad you don't care as much about facts when it's someone who's .... you spend the whole year sucking in an effort shore up the foundation of your echo chamber.

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Typical meandering and resorting to insults, no surprise there! Fact is Rossi had pace on everyone up to his finishing place which ironically was the same this year, Valencia just isn't his track .

moto vudu said:

Early season results from Lorenzo before the string of poor weather races...

won Qatar
2nd COTA
2nd Jerez
won Le Mans by 10 seconds!
won Mugello
DNF at Catalunya (thanks to Iannone)

Every rider had to adapt to Michelin tires and Lorenzo didn't have any major issues adapting as long as the weather was good. His problem all season long has been poor weather, not tire construction. Again, had it been cold & wet at Valencia... there is no "special" tire Michelin could've introduced to help Lorenzo. Lorenzo needs a psychologist for cold & wet races, not a special tire.

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His problem has been tyre construction in wet and cool races, because he can't get heat into the standard Michelin wet tyre with his riding style. He actually has given interviews about his problem with the construction of that tyre, but he of course wouldn't know as much about his own circumstances as you do. The wet tyre that did work for him delaminated when he was the fastest rider on the track and making up ground hand over fist.

If he has an issue as far as general approach goes it is in changeable/ damp conditions. And as we have discussed before, some of us find it rather rich that a so brave keyboard jockey questions the courage of a rider who rode with a clavicle he fractured 2 days earlier and had plated 1 day earlier, came back to win 3 titles after career threatening concussions in 2008, rode after the massive highside this year that shattered his helmet and after which he required a head CT, etc etc. What is ironic and amusing is your constant bleating about "Rossi haters" when you clearly "hate" Lorenzo as much or more than anyone "hates" Rossi.

I am actually pretty much over last year's controversy myself, I don't think either rider has much chance of beating MM for future titles particularly if Honda improve the bike. Lorenzo did win that title though, and I continue to believe Yamaha's best chance of winning against MM was/would have been going forward Lorenzo with suitable tyres available to him.

And yes it is fairly clear that the tyre situation this year involved stuff-ups/quality control and design problems in the first year of their return on Michelin's part rather than any conspiracy, although this perhaps affected Jorge more because of his rather specific tyre requirements, and a tyre which particularly suited him being withdrawn due to a tendency to explode when utilised by Ducati riders, not I am sure a deliberate element of the design with the object of thwarting Jorge.

I actually concur with the view expressed by Jazkat, a longterm Rossi partisan, during the most recent race that Ducati have probably pushed for the new tyre brought by Michelin for this race which suited Jorge, and have opined previously that Yamaha could perhaps have pushed for such a tyre earlier in the recent season if Jorge was not temporarily an orphan who was leaving them.

JPSLotus said:

A lot of guys moved right out of Rossi's way once he was near close enough to make an overtake attempt, Hernandez, Bradl, Pirro, Smith, Petrucci...Aleix and Pol tried to defend...Dovi made Rossi work harder than anyone.

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You are so full of ....! You have got to be the most blatant liar on this forum, but you're first to claim other posters here are full of ....!

I'm watching Valencia 2015 right now and there's no way in hell Hernandez moved over for Rossi. Rossi actually got stuck behind Hernandez for an entire lap before executing a nice pass on the brakes. He then had to put an aggressive (but clean) pass up the inside on Bautista. Rossi slip-streamed Bradl on the front straight and passed him on the brakes going into turn 1. There was absolutely nothing Bradl could do to defend against that. Next up was Pirro who Rossi passed on the brakes going into turn 8. Rossi then had to run down Smith who was 1.5 seconds ahead. Smith tried hard to defend, but once again Rossi was brilliant on the brakes going into turn 8 and there was nothing Smith could do. Next up was Petrucci who of course uneccessarily went wide to allow Rossi through. He had to fight his way through on Pol in turn 6, but got the job done as they almost touched on corner exit. He found himself in a battle with Aleix as he passed Aleix on the brakes into turn one, but went a little wide and Aleix reclaimed the position. Rossi pulled off the most beautiful pass I've ever seen at Valenica on Aleix @ turn 5! Shame the late season events overshadowed how nice of a pass it was, ....... pin point accuracy... I wish someone made a gif of that pass!


I challenge anyone to go back and watch Valencia 2015 and say that Hernandez, Bradl, Pirro, Smith, or any rider other than Petrucci pulled over for Rossi!!

Tito Rabat just received rookie award of the year...was he the only one? I can't see any other reason for it.

Rossi showed up this year....

And this year everyone (but Cal and Rins) looked VERY smart (all black, no jeans), even the RB rookies cup boys, but MM was the king.

As a tribute to Salom #39 was retired from moto2

povol said:

To bad about the start, Marquez had the pace to battle Lorenzo. It just goes to show the Rossi ....... from last year and obviously a few still this year, how hard it is to go forward on this track when you are racing other quick bikes. It took him half the race to get around the much slower Rossi and Ianonne but once he did, he left them in a cloud of dust. It is fitting that Lorenzo go out with a win with Rossi nowhere near him, not even having to share the podium with him. Its all about Jorge today.

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He would probably have won without the bad start.

I think tyres did come into it, with MM's choice of a harder tyre proving superior late race but not being so good earlier. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice as you guys say.

The Desmo is only back on form because of Stoner, nobody and I mean nobody understands a motorcycle like that man.

AntG said:

The Desmo is only back on form because of Stoner, nobody and I mean nobody understands a motorcycle like that man.

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If by Stoner you mean Gigi Dall'Igna, then you are correct.

AntG said:

The Desmo is only back on form because of Stoner, nobody and I mean nobody understands a motorcycle like that man.

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Lol. And they call Rossi fans delusional.

Finish line said:

Tito Rabat just received rookie award of the year...was he the only one? I can't see any other reason for it.

Rossi showed up this year....

And this year everyone (but Cal and Rins) looked VERY smart (all black, no jeans), even the RB rookies cup boys, but MM was the king.

As a tribute to Salom #39 was retired from moto2

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Yep he was the only rookie. When the results for the only rookie are that bad they shouldn't give an award.

michaelm said:

He would probably have won without the bad start.

I think tyres did come into it, with MM's choice of a harder tyre proving superior late race but not being so good earlier. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice as you guys say.

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Honda have been pretty good this season on tyre choice, not always but more often than not. The harder tyre MM had payed off big time towards the end of the race, if the race went for another lap or two I'm sure he would have won.

Fenrir2016 said:

Lol. And they call Rossi fans delusional.

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Yes this thread amply illustrates your point.

Apparently cod psychological speculation concerning Lorenzo being "mentally weak" in the wet is the obvious truth and the rational line of argument while discussion of the interaction of his riding style with the characteristics/construction of the current main Michelin wet tyre which accords with what he himself has said in interviews is unreasonable and tendentious.

AntG said:

The Desmo is only back on form because of Stoner, nobody and I mean nobody understands a motorcycle like that man.

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Id say it has a lot more to do with Honda and Yamaha losing their electronics advantage this season than Stoners 3 test rides of the Ducati. Pirro and Dovi do most of the development work with the bike anyway.

michaelm said:

He would probably have won without the bad start.

I think tyres did come into it, with MM's choice of a harder tyre proving superior late race but not being so good earlier. Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice as you guys say.

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The start is what ...... him. He had the pace to stick with Lorenzo from the drop of the flag even on the harder tire. Lorenzo even said after the race that Marquez would have won had it not been for his .... start.

Anyone watch the awards ceremony. The constructors trophy was a a sheet of cardboard with Constructors Champion printed on it. The presentation took every bit of 30 seconds. What a ....... joke, obviously it means next to nothing except bragging rights. They also must be on a very restricted time table as no one who receive awards is even offered the opportunity to speak. Heres your trophy, get the .... out of here.

AJV80 said:

Id say it has a lot more to do with Honda and Yamaha losing their electronics advantage this season than Stoners 3 test rides of the Ducati. Pirro and Dovi do most of the development work with the bike anyway.

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It certainly would be interesting to know how much the tyre problems are due to electronics.
Add to this Ducati (with Audi now owners) hiring Gigi from Aprilia who tells us the engine geometry wasn't up to scratch so they developed a more compact engine for 2015 so imo the bike has been steadily catching up since he arrived.
The bike is still a point and shoot missile but I'm sure they'll get on top of it.

2017 is going to be interesting for sure.

Fenrir2016 said:

It certainly would be interesting to know how much the tyre problems are due to electronics.
Add to this Ducati (with Audi now owners) hiring Gigi from Aprilia who tells us the engine geometry wasn't up to scratch so they developed a more compact engine for 2015 so imo the bike has been steadily catching up since he arrived.
The bike is still a point and shoot missile but I'm sure they'll get on top of it.

2017 is going to be interesting for sure.

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Gigi has done a marvelous job at Ducati. He has completely changed the culture of how Ducati goes about racing. Not only has he done a great job as leader, he is a damn good engineer as well. There is no doubt who is in charge of that outfit.

Fenrir2016 said:

It certainly would be interesting to know how much the tyre problems are due to electronics.
Add to this Ducati (with Audi now owners) hiring Gigi from Aprilia who tells us the engine geometry wasn't up to scratch so they developed a more compact engine for 2015 so imo the bike has been steadily catching up since he arrived.
The bike is still a point and shoot missile but I'm sure they'll get on top of it.

2017 is going to be interesting for sure.

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I agree, since Gigi came aboard the bike has been strong and consistent with both riders. I think the electronics are part to blame for the issues with tyres across the board this season. The TC system now isn't like in 2015 where they would just pin the throttle and let the bike sort everything out and requires more finesse from the riders.

If the last race is anything to go by they have made headway with the front tyres to allow for higher edge grip and also heavy braking. I'm curious as to how the lack of winglets will effect Ducati's performance because they seem to be the team using them the heaviest. Looking forward to seeing JL on the Ducati in the next coming days.