MotoGP: 2016 Round 18 - Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana (SPOILERS)

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

valerian said:
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. If it means to be a real fan you have to be a ...., I think I'll stick to not being a real fan.

Love.

Who said anything about being a ....?

If you flee this site (or others) and refuse to participate only unless Rossi is in contention for a race win, or championship, that's hardly being a fan of motorcycle racing. Motorcycle racing is more than Valentino Rossi or MotoGP, much to the chagrin of some.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Same place they go every year when they realize there's no title to be had; hibernation.

No real loss. They never were fans of motorcycle racing.

Was a great race today to watch how hard the riders had to work to overtake on this circuit. Also provides a nice contrast to last year when everyone pulled over for Rossi. Not so easy to overtake there when everyone is no longer ceding him free positions.

Everyone pulled over for Rossi last year?

Petrucci went wide for Rossi even though Rossi was about to pass him even if he held his line. Who else did you see pull over for Rossi?

danski · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
Everyone pulled over for Rossi last year?

We know they didn't for the most part, with the notable exception of Petrucci. In fact he made many great passes and it was spectacular to see. Of course JPS isn't interested in fact as it doesn't fit his fantasy.

Keshav · Nov 13, 2016

Thought it was a great race. Happy to see Lorenzo go out on a high note; tho a he said in the interview - if MM hadn't screwed up the start, he'd most assuredly have won the race.

Hate to admit it - but I will miss Iannone on the Ducati. I think they suit each other and he's clearly improving as he matures. As others have echoed - the Ducati will struggle next year without the wings. Their engineers have their work cut out for them. I'm thinking that next year will be the beginning of the era of the younger riders. Rossi's still got steam, and Lorenzo will - I think struggle on the Ducati, and Dovi is pretty much over it.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
We know they didn't for the most part, with the notable exception of Petrucci. In fact he made many great passes and it was spectacular to see. Of course JPS isn't interested in fact as it doesn't fit his fantasy.

That's the crazy thing about JPS and his fantasies! He makes blatantly makes .... up on a forum full of people that watch the races. He can tell people that never saw the race that sort of BS, but it's ridiculous that he tries that .... on this forum.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

Daniboy said:
We know they didn't for the most part, with the notable exception of Petrucci. In fact he made many great passes and it was spectacular to see. Of course JPS isn't interested in fact as it doesn't fit his fantasy.

A lot of guys moved right out of Rossi's way once he was near close enough to make an overtake attempt, Hernandez, Bradl, Pirro, Smith, Petrucci...Aleix and Pol tried to defend...Dovi made Rossi work harder than anyone.

Haha...that's what a fact looks like...

I'm plenty interested in facts...

Rossi fans aren't...after all, they still hold onto the delusion that Lorenzo was mentally weak when it was tire construction that prevented his ability to be competitive. Your sidekick Vudu was proven completely wrong today about Lorenzo's supposed mental state...no mea culpa to be issued from him.

Too bad you don't care as much about facts when it's someone who's .... you spend the whole year sucking in an effort shore up the foundation of your echo chamber.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
That's the crazy thing about JPS and his fantasies! He makes blatantly makes .... up on a forum full of people that watch the races. He can tell people that never saw the race that sort of BS, but it's ridiculous that he tries that .... on this forum.

Oh do tell me more Vudu...you spent more than half of the season insisting Lorenzo was mentally weak, while ignoring what plenty of people told you; it was the tires...care to admit you were wrong there?

Or would you rather double down on your indefensible position?

Don't try and change your argument to something else now...we all know how insistent you were on Lorenzo's mental weakness for months.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
A lot of guys moved right out of Rossi's way once he was near close enough to make an overtake attempt, Hernandez, Bradl, Pirro, Smith, Petrucci...Aleix and Pol tried to defend...Dovi made Rossi work harder than anyone.

Haha...that's what a fact looks like...

I'm plenty interested in facts...

Rossi fans aren't...after all, they still hold onto the delusion that Lorenzo was mentally weak when it was tire construction that prevented his ability to be competitive. Your sidekick Vudu was proven completely wrong today about Lorenzo's supposed mental state...no mea culpa to be issued from him.

Too bad you don't care as much about facts when it's someone who's .... you spend the whole year sucking in an effort shore up the foundation of your echo chamber.

I said weeks ago that Lorenzo did fine all season when the weather was good! It was some of you that were arguing the Michelin slicks hampered Lorenzo, I said that's FALSE! Lorenzo won on them before and nobody could touch him at Le Mans! It was the poor weather that Lorenzo couldn't deal with mentally. Had it been cold & wet at Valencia, he likely would've been at the back of the pack.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
As I said weeks ago that Lorenzo did fine all season when the weather was good! It was some of you that were arguing the Michelin slicks hampered Lorenzo, I said that's FALSE! Lorenzo won on them before and nobody could touch him at Le Mans! It was the poor weather that Lorenzo couldn't deal with mentally. Had it been cold & wet at Valencia, he likely would've been at the back of the pack.

They brought a different tire construct for Valencia...maybe you missed that...

Oh wait...you definitely did...

Poor weather he couldn't deal with?

lol keep clinging to that delusion...

You have literally no clue about racing tire design, and how easily they can make a rider competitive or uncompetitive...and it has nothing to do with mental toughness, or lack thereof as you are so desperate to maintain.

Mentally weak would be choking like Rossi when the pressure is on...you've seen a lot of mental weakness from him...it's no surprise you are quick to attribute such things to others because it excuses his lack of intestinal fortitude in tight seasons...

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
As I said weeks ago that Lorenzo did fine all season when the weather was good! It was some of you that were arguing the Michelin slicks hampered Lorenzo, I said that's FALSE! Lorenzo won on them before and nobody could touch him at Le Mans! It was the poor weather that Lorenzo couldn't deal with mentally. Had it been cold & wet at Valencia, he likely would've been at the back of the pack.

I disagree. It's actually much more complex than that - we can go into it in great detail if you wish.

Nonetheless, your corollary that Lorenzo is 'mentally weak' is fallacious. I don't care if there has to be an astral alignment for him to do what he did today, even if bike and tyres are in perfect harmony, you don't peel off that consistency lap after lap if you are 'mentally weak'.

Your original contention that Lorenzo has never been able to ride in the wet is also 'fantasy'. In fact it's ridiculous that you 'tried that .... on this forum' given that other people were watching when you obviously weren't Vudu.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
I disagree. It's actually much more complex than that - we can go into it in great detail if you wish.

Nonetheless, your corollary that Lorenzo is 'mentally weak' is fallacious. I don't care if there has to be an astral alignment for him to do what he did today, even if bike and tyres are in perfect harmony, you don't peel off that consistency lap after lap if you are 'mentally weak'.

Your original contention that Lorenzo has never been able to ride in the wet is also 'fantasy'. In fact it's ridiculous that you 'tried that .... on this forum' given that other people were watching when you obviously weren't Vudu.

When we talk about wet weather specialist, Lorenzo will NEVER be a name in that discussion. Yes, he has won some wet races in the past, but he never did so with enough frequency to claim he is one of the strongest wet weather riders on the grid. Ever since he got hurt in the wet at Assen, he does appear to have mental issues with pushing hard on a wet surface and that was only made worse this year because of the races that were not only wet, but cool!

The claim that Lorenzo is mentally weak in poor weather doesn't have a damn thing to do with him performing well on a dry & warm Valencia track. That's where he has CONFIDENCE. Yes, Michelin had a special tire today at Valencia, but Lorenzo didn't need it earlier in the season when the weather was good. ALL the riders that put forth maximum effort at every round regardless of the weather conditions showed more mental strength than Lorenzo!!!! You will not give Lorenzo more credit than the other riders just because he did good during another dry & warm race.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
They brought a different tire construct for Valencia...maybe you missed that...

Oh wait...you definitely did...

Poor weather he couldn't deal with?

lol keep clinging to that delusion...

You have literally no clue about racing tire design, and how easily they can make a rider competitive or uncompetitive...and it has nothing to do with mental toughness, or lack thereof as you are so desperate to maintain.

Mentally weak would be choking like Rossi when the pressure is on...you've seen a lot of mental weakness from him...it's no surprise you are quick to attribute such things to others because it excuses his lack of intestinal fortitude in tight seasons...

Early season results from Lorenzo before the string of poor weather races...

won Qatar
2nd COTA
2nd Jerez
won Le Mans by 10 seconds!
won Mugello
DNF at Catalunya (thanks to Iannone)

Every rider had to adapt to Michelin tires and Lorenzo didn't have any major issues adapting as long as the weather was good. His problem all season long has been poor weather, not tire construction. Again, had it been cold & wet at Valencia... there is no "special" tire Michelin could've introduced to help Lorenzo. Lorenzo needs a psychologist for cold & wet races, not a special tire.

Arrabbiata1 · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
When we talk about wet weather specialist, Lorenzo will NEVER be a name in that discussion. Yes, he has won some wet races in the past, but he never did so with enough frequency to claim he is one of the strongest wet weather riders on the grid. Ever since he got hurt in the wet at Assen, he does appear to have mental issues with pushing hard on a wet surface and that was only made worse this year because of the races that were not only wet, but cool!

The claim that Lorenzo is mentally weak in poor weather doesn't have a damn thing to do with him performing well on a dry & warm Valencia track. That's where he has CONFIDENCE. Yes, Michelin had a special tire today at Valencia, but Lorenzo didn't need it earlier in the season when the weather was good. ALL the riders that put forth maximum effort at every round regardless of the weather conditions showed more mental strength than Lorenzo!!!! You will not give Lorenzo more credit than the other riders just because he did good during another dry & warm race.

At no point did I suggest that Lorenzo was a "wet weather specialist", simply that your original claim that he has never been able to ride in wet weather throughout his career is complete uninformed nonsense and that the suggestion that he is mentally weak is equally as fallacious.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

Arrabbiata1 said:
At no point did I suggest that Lorenzo was a "wet weather specialist", simply that your original claim that he has never been able to ride in wet weather throughout his career is complete uninformed nonsense and that the suggestion that he is mentally weak is equally as fallacious.

Back when we had that debate, I admitted it wasn't right to say that Lorenzo could never ride in the wet. I was originally arguing Lorenzo's recent performances, but you went back to his earlier career races to claim that he could ride in the wet. Fine! But that's just like when people here claim that Rossi can't ride on a soft tire. Really? I'm sure if we go all the way back through Rossi's career, we can find multiple instances of him winning races on soft tires. Yet, that still wouldn't change opinions here that Rossi must have a hard tire next year.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
Early season results from Lorenzo before the string of poor weather races...

won Qatar
2nd COTA
2nd Jerez
won Le Mans by 10 seconds!
won Mugello
DNF at Catalunya (thanks to Iannone)

Every rider had to adapt to Michelin tires and Lorenzo didn't have any major issues adapting as long as the weather was good. His problem all season long has been poor weather, not tire construction. Again, had it been cold & wet at Valencia... there is no "special" tire Michelin could've introduced to help Lorenzo. Lorenzo needs a psychologist for cold & wet races, not a special tire.

Your simplistic views are becoming tiresome to read, as they contain mostly ignorance and no real interest in moving on beyond your preconceived notions of reality.

The impact of tire construction has been immense on the racing this year.

To insist that the issue has nothing to do with that, is to confirm you pay little attention to much of anything.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Your simplistic views are becoming tiresome to read,

Then don't read them. You're not even trying to argue a point because you do not have one. You resort to petty insults when you don't have an argument as you hope to change the debate into a name calling battle to distract from the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
The impact of tire construction has been immense on the racing this year.

To insist that the issue has nothing to do with that, is to confirm you pay little attention to much of anything.

Tire construction & compounds is a major talking point in every racing series, however that wasn't Lorenzo's biggest problem this season. If every race was warm and dry, Lorenzo either would've defended his championship or finished 2nd.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
Then don't read them. You're not even trying to argue a point because you do not have one. You resort to petty insults when you don't have an argument as you hope to change the debate into a name calling battle to distract from the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.

I haven't resorted to anything...you have been regurgitating the same tripe for months, and I'm pointing out that you don't actually know anything about tires, Lorenzo, or wet weather racing.

You've been blabbing the same unfounded .... to no end. That's to say nothing of your constantly trying to move the goalposts with your argument about Lorenzo when you get called on it.

There were no insults in that post...learn to read...it would do you some good.

moto vudu said:
Tire construction & compounds is a major talking point in every racing series, however that wasn't Lorenzo's biggest problem this season. If every race was warm and dry, Lorenzo either would've defended his championship or finished 2nd.

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

The tires were a huge problem. You prefer only to look at the wins, I prefer to look at the entire picture. Cherry-picking data serves no purposes, but it's also no real surprise as usual that you go down that road.

The rest of us are discussing reality, not unprovable hypothetical scenarios...which is all you ever go on about.

moto vudu · Nov 13, 2016

JPSLotus said:
I haven't resorted to anything...you have been regurgitating the same tripe for months, and I'm pointing out that you don't actually know anything about tires, Lorenzo, or wet weather racing.

You've been blabbing the same unfounded .... to no end. That's to say nothing of your constantly trying to move the goalposts with your argument about Lorenzo when you get called on it.

There were no insults in that post...learn to read...it would do you some good.

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

The tires were a huge problem. You prefer only to look at the wins, I prefer to look at the entire picture. Cherry-picking data serves no purposes, but it's also no real surprise as usual that you go down that road.

The rest of us are discussing reality, not unprovable hypothetical scenarios...which is all you ever go on about.

Oh that's cute! One of the "Michelintino tires" believers is claiming someone else doesn't know .... about tires or isn't arguing facts.

Look at the entire season and it's easy to see Lorenzo didn't have any huge problems with the Michelin slicks. That's why it's ridiculous you attempted to use today's results as proof of anything.

You're not arguing reality! It was just minutes ago you were making up .... about every rider pulling over for Rossi last year.

JPSLotus · Nov 13, 2016

moto vudu said:
Oh that's cute! One of the "Michelintino tires" believers is claiming someone else doesn't know .... about tires or isn't arguing facts.

Look at the entire season and it's easy to see Lorenzo didn't have any huge problems with the Michelin slicks. That's why it's ridiculous you attempted to use today's results as proof of anything.

You're not arguing reality! It was just minutes ago you were making up .... about every rider pulling over for Rossi last year.

Lorenzo had issues with the slicks at numerous times this season (as did the entire grid) to say otherwise, is to ignore the overall picture. But you see Vudu, today was proof of a few things, such as tire construction and it's ability to dictate outcomes, and equally important, Lorenzo was not mentally weak as you were quick to claim. Though, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how Rossi said he wasn't giving it his all on the Desmosedici. He admitted to not trying, yet I haven't seen you issue any condemnation of such things from someone who openly admitted not trying.

I cited a number of riders who pulled over for Rossi or did nothing to defend their own position.

Enjoy buddy, Marc Marquez is the 2016 world champion and the odds are looking good for a repeat in 2017. Lorenzo is going to do what Rossi couldn't at Ducati and win on the Desmosedici. Rossi will find himself trying to survive against his teammate, and will create another toxic environment at Yamaha when he starts losing.

I'm sure we can expect to see you apply your lofty high standards to call out others not named Lorenzo over similarly perceived matters on your end.

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MotoGP: 2016 Round 18 - Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana (SPOILERS)

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