MotoGP: 2016 Round 18 - Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana (SPOILERS)

Missed the race. Seems like everything is back to normal though

AJV80 said:

I'm curious as to how the lack of winglets will effect Ducati's performance because they seem to be the team using them the heaviest. Looking forward to seeing JL on the Ducati in the next coming days.

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And Honda, Marquez said the single biggest improvement on the 2016 RCV was when they went to the huge winglets

povol said:

And Honda, Marquez said the single biggest improvement on the 2016 RCV was when they went to the huge winglets

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I think they have a new intake that gives the effect of having winglets. I noticed MM and DP's bikes had different intakes on the front cowl.

This has come up before. Honda has stated that they use the intakes for downforce, too. Next year will be interesting with zero wings. Will lap times go up from this year? Quite possibly.

I still think people are underestimating Ducati's commitment with Lorenzo. $12 million is serious dough. And Lorenzo will be allowed to have his say, I am sure. Ducati will adjust. Ducati listened to Rossi for Mother Mary's sake, and look where that got them. LOL. I think Lorenzo will do better than Rossi or Iannone, and he isn't even part Italian.

Iamapony said:

This has come up before. Honda has stated that they use the intakes for downforce, too. Next year will be interesting with zero wings. Will lap times go up from this year? Quite possibly.

I still think people are underestimating Ducati's commitment with Lorenzo. $12 million is serious dough. And Lorenzo will be allowed to have his say, I am sure. Ducati will adjust. Ducati listened to Rossi for Mother Mary's sake, and look where that got them. LOL. I think Lorenzo will do better than Rossi or Iannone, and he isn't even part Italian.

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I think Lorenzo will do better than VR, AI and even AD, they have invested $24m over two seasons, they will do whatever it takes to protect their investment and get him winning. I think Ducati and Suzuki this year have maybe appeared to have improved a little more than actual based on Honda and Yamaha losing any advantage they had with the electronics they had developed for so many years prior.

Rossi & Burgess copped lots of .... for their statements of fixing the Ducati in 80 seconds and falling flat on their faces, but IMO Ducati going to a conventional alloy twin spar frame was the best thing they ever did. A few years of development later with people like Gigi involved and the bike is quite strong and consistent with both riders. Before that Stoner was the only one who could really get anything out of it.

STEEL FRAMES

Casey GP7 - 10 wins 14 podiums 367 points 1st
Caparossi GP7 - 1 win 4 podiums 166 points 7th

Casey GP8 -6 wins 11 podiums 280 points 2nd
Melandri GP8 - 0 wins 0 podiums 51 points 17th

CARBON FRAMES

Casey GP9 - 4 wins 8 podiums 220 points 4th
Hayden GP9 - 0 wins 1 podium 104 points 13th

Casey GP10 - 3 wins 9 podiums 225 points 4th
Hayden GP10 - 1 podiums 163 points 7th

Rossi GP11 - 1 podiums 139 points 7th
Hayden GP11 - 1 podiums 132 points 8th

ALLOY FRAME

Rossi GP12 - 2 podiums 163 points 6th
Hayden GP12 - 0 podiums 122 points 9th

Dovi GP13 - 0 podiums 140 8th
Hayden GP13 - 0 podiums 126 points 9th

Dovi GP14 - 2 podiums 187 points 5th
Crutchlow GP14 - 1 podium 74 points 13th

Iannone GP15 - 3 podium 188 points 5th
Dovi GP15 - 5 podium 162 points 7th

Iannone GP16 - 1 win 4 podiums 112 points 9th (DNF/DNS x 10 races)
Dovi GP16 - 1 Win 5 podiums 171 points 5th (DNF/DNS x 5 races)

I wouldn't be surprised if Ducati try another Carbon frame since they've just built a road bike with one. I see no reason why it wouldn't work in MotoGP.

The bike was suffering from poor front end feel, no matter the frame, until they fixed the engine geometry (even Stoner had quite a few sudden front end stacks in 2010).

povol said:

The start is what ...... him. He had the pace to stick with Lorenzo from the drop of the flag even on the harder tire. Lorenzo even said after the race that Marquez would have won had it not been for his .... start.

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Yes, have seen the analysis now (couldn't get live timing during the race which I usually have running on the laptop while I watch on TV) and can see MM had a lap time on one early lap close to JL's fastest lap of the race.

Fenrir2016 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Ducati try another Carbon frame since they've just built a road bike with one. I see no reason why it wouldn't work in MotoGP.

The bike was suffering from poor front end feel, no matter the frame, until they fixed the engine geometry (even Stoner had quite a few sudden front end stacks in 2010).

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I like the idea of Suzuki's frame, rather than reinvent the wheel they have tried to improve on an already proven winning frame design. They have a pretty sweet handling bike by the look of it, they seem to be doing something right.

I dont think its a coincidence that all the winning teams seem to run a similar alloy twin spar frame.

Fenrir2016 said:

Lol. And they call Rossi fans delusional.

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I jest

Iamapony said:

This has come up before. Honda has stated that they use the intakes for downforce, too. Next year will be interesting with zero wings. Will lap times go up from this year? Quite possibly.
n.

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Pony, can you post a link? Trying to work out how that'd work...

Dr No said:

Pony, can you post a link? Trying to work out how that'd work...

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I have spent a bit of time looking for where Nakamoto said this, and I have not found it yet. I know they said it, though. Maybe it was my old Honda insider dude, but I seriously doubt that one. It must be buried in a live quote or another interview not related to the aerodynamic issue and ruling for next year. I will keep looking with less effort. That's the best I have at the moment.

How it works is that it is a shelf on the front of the bike. Angle and size of the shelf would influence downforce, and drag. Not that complicated, really. It would be the same on a car.

Iamapony said:

I have spent a bit of time looking for where Nakamoto said this, and I have not found it yet. I know they said it, though. Maybe it was my old Honda insider dude, but I seriously doubt that one. It must be buried in a live quote or another interview not related to the aerodynamic issue and ruling for next year. I will keep looking with less effort. That's the best I have at the moment.

How it works is that it is a shelf on the front of the bike. Angle and size of the shelf would influence downforce, and drag. Not that complicated, really. It would be the same on a car.

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Thanks, Pony.

moto vudu said:

If by Stoner you mean Gigi Dall'Igna, then you are correct.

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As it happens Gigi is quoted in an article on Crashnet today saying how much he values Stoner's input and that he wants greater involvement from him in 2017.

Make of it what you will, but that is what he is quoted as saying.

Dr No said:

Thanks, Pony.

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I am thoroughly frustrated with continuously searching without success. I hope my memory is not distorted and the statement came from some unsubstantiated source. I have not given up, yet.

Iamapony said:

I am thoroughly frustrated with continuously searching without success. I hope my memory is not distorted and the statement came from some unsubstantiated source. I have not given up, yet.

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I dont remember coming across any particular article describing fairing designed aero downforce built into the bikes but some interviews with Nakamoto asked questions alluding to it. When the rules came in for the banning of winglets it wasn't quite black and white which was of concern, I know the rules had been tweaked to ensure they cannot be exploited via a loophole in wording.

I'd say DORNA and the FIM are already aware that manufacturers will try to design aerodynamics into their fairing and cowl designs to combat this rule and have an advantage. They have created another rule about limiting of fairing designs and having them frozen at the beginning of the season allowing only one change or something along those lines.

In the interests of cost saving there will be a limit on the number of upgrades that a manufacturer can make to the design of their fairing or front mudguard during the season.

Initial designs will be homologated by the Technical Director at the first event of the season. Thereafter, only one upgrade of the fairing and one upgrade of the front mudguard is permitted in that season. The restriction will apply “per rider” and not per make of motorcycle.

- See more at: MotoGP bosses place further restrictions on aero development - Bikesport News

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michaelm said:

As it happens Gigi is quoted in an article on Crashnet today saying how much he values Stoner's input and that he wants greater involvement from him in 2017.

Make of it what you will, but that is what he is quoted as saying.

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MotoGP News - MotoGP: Ducati planning closer Stoner collaboration


"I'm really happy to have Casey joining us during 2016," said Dall'Igna, speaking in the Valencia paddock on Monday. "He was really important because he gave us some extra data, extra ideas, to develop the bike and so I'm very happy and proud to work with him.


"Next year I would like Casey to make more tests for us and also work more closely with me and our technical department, just to have the possibility to bring his experience and work to develop the bike and speed up the process.





Yep, sure sounds like Ducati are pissed at him (not at you with that Mike) ................. now if only the left hand talked to the right hand

Gaz said:

MotoGP News - MotoGP: Ducati planning closer Stoner collaboration


"I'm really happy to have Casey joining us during 2016," said Dall'Igna, speaking in the Valencia paddock on Monday. "He was really important because he gave us some extra data, extra ideas, to develop the bike and so I'm very happy and proud to work with him.


"Next year I would like Casey to make more tests for us and also work more closely with me and our technical department, just to have the possibility to bring his experience and work to develop the bike and speed up the process.





Yep, sure sounds like Ducati are pissed at him (not at you with that Mike) ................. now if only the left hand talked to the right hand

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Perhaps the other comment was from someone who is more on the racing rather than technical/development side, who has finally come to the realisation Stoner actually isn't ever going to return to race riding; it would be annoying in his role to have someone around the team who is still not all that old and would conceivably be almost immediately more competitive than the existing riders, concerning which he seemed wistful. I mean this year's riders rather than Jorge of course, and perhaps Jorge himself is still keen to have Stoner involved. If he is, I would take it as a good sign that Jorge foresees and intends a serious challenge; he has Casey's old crew chief as his crew chief next year as well of course.

michaelm said:

Perhaps the other comment was from someone who is more on the racing rather than technical/development side, who has finally come to the realisation Stoner actually isn't ever going to return to race riding; it would be annoying in his role to have someone around the team who is still not all that old and would conceivably be almost immediately more competitive than the existing riders, concerning which he seemed wistful. I mean this year's riders rather than Jorge of course, and perhaps Jorge himself is still keen to have Stoner involved. If he is, I would take it as a good sign that Jorge foresees and intends a serious challenge; he has Casey's old crew chief as his crew chief next year as well of course.

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Absolutely agree in that on one hand we have a person who has an unfulfilled wish, where on the other we have a guy who appreciates that which he has at his disposal.

Personally, whilst it pisses a lot of people off the fact that Stoner has stated many times that he has no intention of racing in an ongoing capacity and has stuck by that is something that I admire (and enjoy the angst that it seems to cause).

Iamapony said:

I am thoroughly frustrated with continuously searching without success. I hope my memory is not distorted and the statement came from some unsubstantiated source. I have not given up, yet.

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I remember reading same. Can't find it though.

A sensational pic of some guy with mental issues

Love the left hand on (or not on) the handlebar