2017 Gran Premio Red Bull de España

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Iamapony said:
Meanwhile, I even gave you links, so you would understand that Spies was a full factory rider.
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There was never any dispute as to Ben being supported by Yamaha (he had a Yamaha contract, after all). My point was that he wasn't getting what JL and VR got.

Iamapony said:
The reason he was not on the factory team, was because of the rules, which I linked.
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Rossi and JL actually had already signed for the factory team at that point. Unless you have evidence that Fiat Yamaha wanted a three rider team with Ben, I understood it to be a forward-looking rule (prompted by Ben's entry to the premier class). I'll withdraw my point for Ben if you can demonstrate that Fiat Yamaha was going to expand to a three rider effort for 2010.

Iamapony said:
We were told that he had a contract giving him the same equipment as the Repsol boys.
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Can you provide the link? I recall that he had factory help, but I didn't know he had the same gear as Casey and Dani (I'm not sure how Dovi was treated in 2011 at Repsol).
 
povol said:
Do you seriously not understand that if you show self restraint and IGNORE whatever it is that sets you off, it will go away. Bottom line is, you enjoy this crap.
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It will certainly NOT go away, that's not only my point, but you have witnessed it here on this very thread! I've never been anything other than serious about this issue. What is you principle on making accusations Pov? Remind me. In this country the accuser is..., no? I don't enjoy it, and in fact I have the balls to call it out by name, something you have lacked, and is why I'm relying to you now. Let me make an accusation of my own, you enjoy it Pov, and in fact you were enjoying Kesh trolling before the Qatar thread. Its why you never spoke up. Since then a few members have spoke up, specifically telling Kesh to "grow up", and Danski pointing out specifically Barry Machine and Kesh, regarding the double standards employed by those instigating and relentlessly participating in flame wars. Your name is missing Pov.

Pov, this thread was moving along nicely until Kesh started a flurry of trolling-reaction posts, go back and look, start with post #616. It's Kesh trolling-reacting until post #622. Your advice is to 'ignore' it and it will go away? Ya'll were 'ignoring" it for many threads 'before' I spoke up, guess what, it did not go away. There's a name for your strategy, it's called 'appeasement.' It's a term made famous because it spectacularly fails.

Scroll up to post #616, you'll see how Kesh destroyed this threads. It's gone now, and there is ONE person to blame, KESHAV.

I should also point out, IamPony said he would 'ignore' participating, which he hasn't, I could easily point this out, but if this is his "new" strategy, then essentially he has 'pledged' going forward to disengage the trolling-reaction cycle. Take a moment to examine Theo's contribution arguing that this is not the message of IamPony's post. No wonder Kesh can troll, even when others say they've had enough (which we shall see) others like Theo argue against any commitment to stop participating in the trolling-reaction cycle.

How is this so easily missed? We don't need to sift through pages upon pages, or threads upon threads to examine what's happened here. Start with post #616. Kesh has a flurry of trolling reactions, ever increasingly unhinged I should add, at that point the thread is blown up.

Appeasement is a failed strategy.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
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Theo said:
I don't see how he has, he's just said I'll ignore it, not "I take the no troll pledge"
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First of all, I'm asking a question. Notice the "?".

I wrote it in this way to both ask a question and make a point. Which you missed, but I'll explain below.


Iamapony said:
I don't give a sh!t, anymore. I am just going to work around you guys and talk about racing.. lol

Jumkie said:
So you're taking KESHAV'S NO TROLL PLEDGE?
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Click to expand...

"I am just going to work around..." means he will 'ignore' these flaming war/trolling interactions. He is making a commitment to ignore it. He is pledging to ignore it. That is the message of Keshav's non-trolling pledge. Theo, if you want to argue that's not what IamPony meant, that's fine, but let's be clear, I was making an inquiry to him so that there can be no doubt, not that his own words were very ambiguous. Which was the point of my "question."

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
Jumkie said:
It will certainly NOT go away, that's not only my point, but you have witnessed it here on this very thread!

Pov, this thread was moving along nicely until Kesh started a flurry of trolling-reaction posts, go back and look, start with post #616. It's Kesh trolling-reacting until post #622. Your advice is to 'ignore' it and it will go away? Ya'll were 'ignoring" it for many threads 'before' I spoke up, guess what, it did not go away. There's a name for your strategy, it's called 'appeasement.' It's a term made famous because it spectacularly fails.

Scroll up to post #616, you'll see how Kesh destroyed this threads. It's gone now, and there is ONE person to blame, KESHAV.

I should also point out, IamPony said he would 'ignore' participating, which he hasn't, I could easily point this out, but if this is his "new" strategy, then essentially he has 'pledged' going forward to disengage the trolling-reaction cycle. Take a moment to examine Theo's contribution arguing that this is not the message of IamPony's post. No wonder Kesh can troll, even when others say they've had enough (which we shall see) others like Theo argue against any commitment to stop participating in the trolling-reaction cycle.

How is this so easily missed? We don't need to sift through pages upon pages, or threads upon threads to examine what's happened here. Start with post #616. Kesh has a flurry of trolling reactions, ever increasingly unhinged I should add, at that point the thread is blown up.

Appeasement is a failed strategy.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Click to expand...

Type type type. Type type typeity type!
 
RCV600RR said:
There was never any dispute as to Ben being supported by Yamaha (he had a Yamaha contract, after all). My point was that he wasn't getting what JL and VR got.


Rossi and JL actually had already signed for the factory team at that point. Unless you have evidence that Fiat Yamaha wanted a three rider team with Ben, I understood it to be a forward-looking rule (prompted by Ben's entry to the premier class). I'll withdraw my point for Ben if you can demonstrate that Fiat Yamaha was going to expand to a three rider effort for 2010.


Can you provide the link? I recall that he had factory help, but I didn't know he had the same gear as Casey and Dani (I'm not sure how Dovi was treated in 2011 at Repsol).
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I will find 'public' information concerning Ben's bike, but I will wait till I can break up the idiotic trolling, here.

It was EASY to find the information concerning Marco. By the way, if you come ride with me on the street, you might see me in a Marco Simoncelli memorial helmet. I wear different helmets on the track. (Miss ya', Supersic.)

MCN Supersic signing.

Marco Simoncelli has agreed a new contract with Fausto Gresini's Honda squad and he will retain his factory rider status with HRC in 2012.

The controversial Italian, who has scored just one podium finish in a turbulent 2011 campaign, will get equal technical support to factory Honda duo Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa in the inaugural 1000cc world championship.
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Iamapony said:
I will find 'public' information concerning Ben's bike, but I will wait till I can break up the idiotic trolling, here.

It was EASY to find the information concerning Marco. By the way, if you come ride with me on the street, you might see me in a Marco Simoncelli memorial helmet. I wear different helmets on the track. (Miss ya', Supersic.)

MCN Supersic signing.
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Thanks - the wording is clear that MS' treatment was equal to the Repsol boys. Curious to see the Spies piece when you have a moment. Cheers.
 
Keshav said:
I haven't put Jumcakes on ignore. Why? The other guys are just on autopilot and nothing anybody says affects them because they're all so psychopathically disconnected. Jummy-buttons however goes nuts just by virtue of the fact that I'm still here. As long as he continues to run his lie factory - I will continue to mock him. When he finally shuts up I will stop replying.
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I have never been other than serious with you Kesh. I don't take anything said here lightly when it comes to this situation, I value my reputation. You have very effectively fabricated the narrative that if JK, Mdub, Synn, Rog, big sparrows (insert boogyman here__) has ever bothered you that therefore Jumkie is your enemy. It has worked in some cases, I'm still rather miffed that Iampony, whom I've not had any substantial interaction with would take your side on the use of a racial slur, then declare his refusal to read my post for the explanation, and skip to conclude based on "logic" that since he has never heard of it, therefore its not real.

My word is bond because I know it has consequences for relationships. There is a reason I'm so adamant about offering friends everything I have to give, I've been privy through example that it can some day even save a life.


You say you've put others on ignore, except you continue to troll them, on this very thread, directly and indirectly, reacting with increasing anger, high-fiving those that engage favorably to your flame war (go no further than this page) and continue to destroy threads. This one is now gone thanks to you.

I will not accept the enabling you get from a lack of courage to call you out by name characterizing this as a 'feud', you are the perpetrator of conflict, nobody needs to go back as far as the start of the season, just scroll up to see how this thread was derailed in post #616 by YOU.

You insist on making wild accusations which is exactly how we got here! This is the crux of your provocations! You instigated by making paranoid accusations as to the identity of Yama San, Synn, Rog, and now BigSparrows (not before making your loaded attacks of course, never miss an opportunity for provocation); you were spectacularly wrong, even after respected members corrected you. Noteworthy it should be said, you are undeterred still insisting on employing irrational suspicion and cynicism, I conclude you do this purposefully! If not me, listen to MikeM regarding the upheaval such foolish speculation creates. Though it serves you well to do so, provocation is useful to you. You gain plenty of mileage from provocations Kesh, even a fascinating social dynamic that makes you feel supported.

Now again, you insist in making the same provocations, you refuse to learn from your 'mistakes' (assuming they are mistakes and not done purposefully, which is increasingly evident). I've challenged you to keep your word, and to add gravity to this challenge, I propose putting our participation in this forum on the line. I'm aware that no one can be forced off this forum, all that is being asked of you is to stop instigating flame wars, to put your word on it with consequence, not just with me, but with others. Take your own pledge instead of stating as you have above that you intend to continue trolling and flame warring.

Honor your non-trolling stop feeding the troll pledge. I am just another troll according to you Why should I get special treatment? Honor your pledge then and stop the trolling-reacting cycle and stop responding to me. Its your pledge, honor it.
 
What Bombay Jared means by “Putting on ignore” is that he is too chickenshit to reply directly and will resort to his trademark passive aggressive indirect responses.

Probably got the kurry scared out of him after his buttbuddy pie boy decided to throw in the towel.
 
Jumkie said:
I have never been other than serious with you Kesh. I don't take anything said here lightly when it comes to this situation, I value my reputation. You have very effectively fabricated the narrative that if JK, Mdub, Synn, Rog, big sparrows (insert boogyman here__) has ever bothered you that therefore Jumkie is your enemy. It has worked in some cases, I'm still rather miffed that Iampony, whom I've not had any substantial interaction with would take your side on the use of a racial slur, then declare his refusal to read my post for the explanation, and skip to conclude based on "logic" that since he has never heard of it, therefore its not real.

My word is bond because I know it has consequences for relationships. There is a reason I'm so adamant about offering friends everything I have to give, I've been privy through example that it can some day even save a life.


You say you've put others on ignore, except you continue to troll them, on this very thread, directly and indirectly, reacting with increasing anger, high-fiving those that engage favorably to your flame war (go no further than this page) and continue to destroy threads. This one is now gone thanks to you.

I will not accept the enabling you get from a lack of courage to call you out by name characterizing this as a 'feud', you are the perpetrator of conflict, nobody needs to go back as far as the start of the season, just scroll up to see how this thread was derailed in post #616 by YOU.

You insist on making wild accusations which is exactly how we got here! This is the crux of your provocations! You instigated by making paranoid accusations as to the identity of Yama San, Synn, Rog, and now BigSparrows (not before making your loaded attacks of course, never miss an opportunity for provocation); you were spectacularly wrong, even after respected members corrected you. Noteworthy it should be said, you are undeterred still insisting on employing irrational suspicion and cynicism, I conclude you do this purposefully! If not me, listen to MikeM regarding the upheaval such foolish speculation creates. Though it serves you well to do so, provocation is useful to you. You gain plenty of mileage from provocations Kesh, even a fascinating social dynamic that makes you feel supported.

Now again, you insist in making the same provocations, you refuse to learn from your 'mistakes' (assuming they are mistakes and not done purposefully, which is increasingly evident). I've challenged you to keep your word, and to add gravity to this challenge, I propose putting our participation in this forum on the line. I'm aware that no one can be forced off this forum, all that is being asked of you is to stop instigating flame wars, to put your word on it with consequence, not just with me, but with others. Take your own pledge instead of stating as you have above that you intend to continue trolling and flame warring.

Honor your non-trolling stop feeding the troll pledge. I am just another troll according to you Why should I get special treatment? Honor your pledge then and stop the trolling-reacting cycle and stop responding to me. Its your pledge, honor it.
Click to expand...

So don't accept reality. See any indication that I care??? Clearly as Pov has indicated - you enjoy the drama too much to put it aside. You're one of those people who is entranced by the sound of his own voice. Otherwise - you would shut the .... up. So it's more type type type.
 
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Keshav said:
Clearly as Pov has indicated - you enjoy the drama too much to shut up. Otherwise - you would do so. So it's more type type type. You're hopeless.
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50 year old registered sex offender and general failure in life calls others hopeless. millions die laughing.

More at 11.
 
RCV600RR said:
There was never any dispute as to Ben being supported by Yamaha (he had a Yamaha contract, after all). My point was that he wasn't getting what JL and VR got.


Rossi and JL actually had already signed for the factory team at that point. Unless you have evidence that Fiat Yamaha wanted a three rider team with Ben, I understood it to be a forward-looking rule (prompted by Ben's entry to the premier class). I'll withdraw my point for Ben if you can demonstrate that Fiat Yamaha was going to expand to a three rider effort for 2010.


Can you provide the link? I recall that he had factory help, but I didn't know he had the same gear as Casey and Dani (I'm not sure how Dovi was treated in 2011 at Repsol).
Click to expand...
You’re absolutely correct, the Spies rule never affected 1 rider including Spies himself.
 
povol said:
You’re absolutely correct, the Spies rule never affected 1 rider including Spies himself.
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Well, he was wrong about Marco Simoncelli, and according to Lin Jarvis, Spies was put on a satellite team because of the rules - Sportbike
Also quoted here, that he was going to a satellite because of the rules. - Crash
Lin Jarvis, Managing Director of Yamaha Motor Racing and the point man for Yamaha’s MotoGP efforts, is obviously salivating at the future of having one of the sport’s rising superstars helping to keep them on top in MotoGP. “We are truly excited about the prospect of Ben’s arrival into our future MotoGP program,” said Jarvis. “Ben is doing a great job for Yamaha in his first season in the World Superbike Championship. He is in great shape to challenge for the title this year and we will be rooting for him at the remaining four events this season. Ben’s primary mission is to win both his and Yamaha’s first World Superbike title. After that when Ben eventually makes the move to the MotoGP championship we will be ready for him and, in line with the new MotoGP regulations, we will create a place for him within the Yamaha satellite team and give him the support he needs for his next challenge.
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Iamapony said:
Well, he was wrong about Marco Simoncelli, and according to Lin Jarvis, Spies was put on a satellite team because of the rules - Sportbike
Also quoted here, that he was going to a satellite because of the rules. - Crash
Click to expand...

His arrival fell in line with he new rule because both Yamaha factory riders were under contract. Spies was not denied a factory ride because of the so called Spies rule
 
Jumkie said:
First of all, I'm asking a question. Notice the "?".

I wrote it in this way to both ask a question and make a point. Which you missed, but I'll explain below.




"I am just going to work around..." means he will 'ignore' these flaming war/trolling interactions. He is making a commitment to ignore it. He is pledging to ignore it. That is the message of Keshav's non-trolling pledge. Theo, if you want to argue that's not what IamPony meant, that's fine, but let's be clear, I was making an inquiry to him so that there can be no doubt, not that his own words were very ambiguous. Which was the point of my "question."

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Click to expand...

Yes I know what a question mark is and my reply is answer for a question as I see it and as you point out in your last paragraph. If you had a point, I'm sorry its obviously missed the bus.
 
All this Ben Spies talk has got me thinking. Did anyone else see the interview with Ben (I think it was at the start of the current WSBK season, but don't quote me on it) and he was saying that the shoulder finally has enough strength back in it and he was considering riding competitively again? I don't think he was talking GPs though.
I'm not saying he was the best, but he was my favourite rider and the factory season with the broken swing arm etc was a nightmare.
I remember him saying (post retirement) that he got how everyone was so fast, in that he understood how they did it, with the exception of 2 people, Casey and Marc.
 
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