Jerez 2019 - Gran Premio Red Bull de España

Theo · May 8, 2019

MagicMarc93 said:
@holypuck- I'll stand by my comment that the Honda is almost unrideable. They've struggled to develop at machine at all, Marc's amazing talent is very heavily leaned on, the engineers just get it roughly right and leave the rest to Marc.
No one else can do anything with it.

I know what it takes to make a rough bike get good lap times.. many have commented that Marc has a similar style to me on trackdays I've done....
I'm sure my times would be even better on a more rideable bike.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

So MM mark 2, what does it take to ride an unrideable bike and don't come out with the usual claptrap excuses about why you didn't come first, after all MM hasn't.

michaelm · May 8, 2019

Keshav said:
Tenacious as he is - I expect he's realistic enough to not have that expectation. Actually - other than Dovi - I think this is true for the rest of the grid. It's Mundialito all over again.

He has the raw pace to actually beat MM on the right bike with the right tyres on occasion when he goes full on “butterhammer” mode as we have seen; whether he would/will ever have tyres of his preference again given the control tyre and his rather individual requirements/preferences is another question of course.

My point was really that he imo had more chance of challenging MM on a Yamaha or Ducati if either came up with a great bike and Honda screwed up as has been known to happen, one reason for Honda to sign him as was said at the time he signed.

Keshav · May 8, 2019

michaelm said:
He has the raw pace to actually beat MM on the right bike with the right tyres on occasion when he goes full on “butterhammer” mode as we have seen; whether he would/will ever have tyres of his preference again given the control tyre and his rather individual requirements/preferences is another question of course.

My point was really that he imo had more chance of challenging MM on a Yamaha or Ducati if either came up with a great bike and Honda screwed up as has been known to happen, one reason for Honda to sign him as was said at the time he signed.

Agree. I only meant he isn't likely to seriously challenge MM while on the Honda. It took him a long time to adjust to the Ducati and tailor it to his needs. Obviously his jump to the Honda is yet a huge contrast and when one considers the dizzying number of variables and his alleged need for everything to be just so, it seems an insurmountable challenge for any rider, never mind an older rider, given that the ability to relearn these kind of skills decreases with age.

If he were back on a Yamaha, one with a bit more power, that didn't eat up tires etc. I'm sure he would be on the podium all the time.

It's been said that due to his injuries he hasn't the upper body strength to cope with the Honda, which reminds that age is an issue here. But if any 32 year old can do it, he can.

Theo · May 9, 2019

I'm actually wondering if he's biding his time before going back to Yamaha, after all his and Rossi's contracts are up at the end of 2020 and to be honest I can't see Yamaha extending his contract beyond that as he will be wanting his own team in MotoGP.

povol · May 17, 2019

Keshav said:

Please give examples of "dumb mistakes" and differentiate how any crash he's had was anything other than a racing incident. We've all witnessed times where a rider has done the unexpected, pulled it off and been praised for it. That's okay - right? But when a rider tries it and fails - it's a dumb mistake. Every make of bike has tracks that favor or disfavor the bike and at the latter - in a heroic moment, riders sometimes in desperation will try the impossible because it's the only chance to clinch a championship. When it works out - the rider is a hero, but when the rider is working a strategy - everybody ....... and moans that the rider is afraid to battle or that the race was processional. Duels with Marquez over the course of the last three laps of certain races, like Motegi in the rain have been some of most thrilling stuff in the last 15 years - you know the ones where Dovi made passes that seemed totally impossible, were ones where if he'd crashed people would be saying, he should have been less daring and settled for a 2nd place.

Comparing him to Pedrosa is a gross injustice. Dovi has taken many many more wins than Dani.

Click to expand...

Keshav said:
And has done so without benefit of working with the same bike and same team for more than a decade. And Pedrosa (IMHO) was a great rider - who just didn't have the physical stature to realize his talent.

Asking Ducati to build a Japanese style engine . . . might as well ask them to change their DNA. It's their identity. And BTW - I don't hear you saying Yamaha needs a complete redesign.

Re: Suzuki - one needs to bare in mind, they have a decades long wealth of experience building inline and V-4 engines, so not such a stretch for them to build a bike comparable to other Japanese bikes and get it competitive after a few years. The primary reasons they were away for a few years was the .... economy hurt them worse than the bigger factories and the well-known problem that they just didn't have the same culture of racing mentality at the corporate level. The technology and know how was always there.

Re: 16 years - one could just as well say, why has HRC been unable to build a bike in the last 12 years that only Stoner and Marquez have been able to regularly wrestle onto the top step of the podium. Going by that equation (as many agree) the Yamaha has been a much better bike with many more points scored for the factory and satellite teams up until two years ago when the fallow period began. Losing Rossi and Lorenzo for all that time really seems to have stunted the impetus for development. They stumbled and still can't catch up.

Re: the relative competitiveness of the Ducati - look at the last few years worth of results and tote up the number of Ducatis on the podium as compared to that of Hondas not ridden by Marquez and that should tell you something. Without phenom Marquez Honda would be nowhere championshipwise. If Marquez were on the Ducati, it would be like the Stoner heydays all over again, with people saying the bike is winning the races.

Your personal disappointment in Dovi for not winning the championship doesn't make him a loser. Losers are the guys who never try.

Comparing him to Pedrosa is a gross injustice. Dovi has taken many many more wins than Dani.
Uhhh what

povol · May 17, 2019

Iamapony said:
So, this is why you have an avatar of some dude taking a heavy drag off a ...? The interwebz are/is so weird. Correction: the people on the interwebz are so weird. I should know - I am a pony.

I have seen conflicting reports on what the Petronas team is riding. Originally, it was suppose to be one tier two and one year old bike. The latest I have seen is that they both get current spec bikes. Anyone have a GOOD link to the truth?

Either way, I think it shows that the MovieStar team may not be as stellar as some would like. Either the kids are faster on the same equipment or faster on older equipment. Not good for Yamaha team one. Full disclosure, I have never been a MV fan, so I was actually surprised he even got a third. If not for a mechanical failure, would he have even had that show?

After telling Hervé they could never supply 4 factory bikes, Petronas forks over some cash and instantly gets factory spec bikes. It wasn’t that they couldn’t , Herve just didn’t have the funds. Initially it was going to be Franky with factory spec and Fabio with factory spec with rev limit , but fro my understanding is now there are 4 factory bikes with official team getting upgrades first .

Keshav · May 19, 2019

povol said:
Comparing him to Pedrosa is a gross injustice. Dovi has taken many many more wins than Dani.
Uhhh what

My bad. I am wrong. Seems I'm guilty of being a bit of a Dovi fan-boy. I've lost track of Dani because of the way in later years he's been pretty much nowhere's, seeming to do worse and worse, while Dovi continued to get stronger.

Regardless - I favor Dovi for a multitude of reasons, such as his ability to adapt to different bikes, his skills with late braking, his refusal to back down when battling with Marquez, his ability to do insane stuff in the rain. Comparing the two riders is apples and oranges. Dani's was on a bike that was essentially designed with him in mind since 2006. Whereas Dovi wasn't really benefitting from the advantages of being on a full factory bike with the team focused on him till he went to Ducati, and that was the 2013 Ducati that was a total piece of .....

In the period between 2013-2018 (the span of time from when Dovi arrived at Ducati) He's taken 11 top spots and Pedrosa, despite having been on the same bike with the same team since 2006, managed 9. But of course as has been said many times, a person can cherry pick stats to underline whatever conclusion they target.

Different fans use different metrics to decide who they like the best; look at how rabid Schwantz fans are, and look at how short his career was - with only the one championship. The numbers are what they are, but Dovi for me has been the rider who has given me the most satisfaction in terms of watching him race. Pedrosa, meh, not so much.

They're both the same age (months apart) but Dani faded out and is gone. Dovi continues to challenge at the front and will be around a few more seasons and stands a good chance of eclipsing Dani's record, but even if he doesn't - of the two, he will always be remembered as the one who was most exciting to watch.

gui22a · May 20, 2019

It gets complicated to discuss when one comes and says "Dovi has many many more wins than Dani." .......

But anyway, it's ok. Keshav has great arguments most of the time. He has my respect, so I pulled off from discussion as early as I see it's going to heat for nowhere.

Btw, if Dalligna was around here, he would dislike your post.

Search

Search

Jerez 2019 - Gran Premio Red Bull de España

Theo

michaelm

Keshav

Theo

povol

povol

Keshav

gui22a

Similar threads

Recent Discussions