Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017

Gaz · Apr 16, 2017

JKant said:
No mention of 'safety reasons' being quoted by Capirossi in Nakamoto's interview, just calls it a 'better choice' (ostensibly based on rider reviews).

And then on top of that, Bridgestone brought out a new front tire with a different construction. We complained that the new tire was unusable since it didn’t have sufficient rigidity, but Dorna’s Loris Capirossi insisted that it was a better choice and so we had to fit it.

The 2012 specification tyres debuted in Nov 2011 (and were superceded at the start of the racing season), so I'm curious to know what tyres had Honda been designing the RCV around for a year or more.

A few articles of possible interest

Capirossi: 2012 tyres made MotoGP safer - Motorcycling - Eurosport Australia

This one is concerning where he says that he will chose the tyres himself, choose for who?
MotoGP News - Capirossi targets tyre changes in safety role

Bridgestone Introduces New Specification MotoGP Front Tire
From Caramello himself
"Dorna is pleased that Bridgestone will make their new specification front tyre available to riders from the second round of the season at Jerez. During the regular meetings during pre-season testing between Bridgestone and Safety Advisor to Dorna Loris Capirossi, it became apparent that this new specification tyre provided even greater levels of front-end feel to the riders and so we welcome the decision to make the tyre available as soon as possible.

So the tyre wasn't replaced on safety grounds, but was replaced at the behest of the safety advisor (?)

May just be me, but at the time Capirossi was the safety officer/representative so for him to get involved (as has been quoted in the article) would indicate that the issue was one of 'safety', else why involve the safety officer?

Now, not sure about you but if WHS (Work Health Safety) suggest that a situation at my work is unsafe, they recommend replacement or upgrades of that situation. If the item is perfectly acceptable and safe, they are not involved in any decision to upgrade the situation as it is outside their responsibility and area of expertise (that being to identify dangerous situations).

In your theory, the safety commissioner was not concerned with rider safety when he suggested that the tyre be changed, but based his recommendation of rider feedback. If that feedback was not of the safety variety than why was the safety commissioner even involved given that his role is safety ?

Using your train of thought, if the change was not safety related than Capirossi was way outside the seeming intention of his job but was listened to, or alternately the failure of the articles to report it as a 'safety' issue is either based on assumed knowledge, connecting the dots or attempts to sweep under the carpet (there are of course other variations of the theme).

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news...ty-advisor-requests-fim-retire-his-number-65/
Loris Capirossi has been appointed in an advisory role to assist the with matters of safety of in the MotoGP World Championship.

michaelm · Apr 16, 2017

Gaz said:
A few articles of possible interest

Capirossi: 2012 tyres made MotoGP safer - Motorcycling - Eurosport Australia

This one is concerning where he says that he will chose the tyres himself, choose for who?
MotoGP News - Capirossi targets tyre changes in safety role

Bridgestone Introduces New Specification MotoGP Front Tire
From Caramello himself
"Dorna is pleased that Bridgestone will make their new specification front tyre available to riders from the second round of the season at Jerez. During the regular meetings during pre-season testing between Bridgestone and Safety Advisor to Dorna Loris Capirossi, it became apparent that this new specification tyre provided even greater levels of front-end feel to the riders and so we welcome the decision to make the tyre available as soon as possible.

So the tyre wasn't replaced on safety grounds, but was replaced at the behest of the safety advisor (?)

May just be me, but at the time Capirossi was the safety officer/representative so for him to get involved (as has been quoted in the article) would indicate that the issue was one of 'safety', else why involve the safety officer?

Now, not sure about you but if WHS (Work Health Safety) suggest that a situation at my work is unsafe, they recommend replacement or upgrades of that situation. If the item is perfectly acceptable and safe, they are not involved in any decision to upgrade the situation as it is outside their responsibility and area of expertise (that being to identify dangerous situations).

In your theory, the safety commissioner was not concerned with rider safety when he suggested that the tyre be changed, but based his recommendation of rider feedback. If that feedback was not of the safety variety than why was the safety commissioner even involved given that his role is safety ?

Using your train of thought, if the change was not safety related than Capirossi was way outside the seeming intention of his job but was listened to, or alternately the failure of the articles to report it as a 'safety' issue is either based on assumed knowledge, connecting the dots or attempts to sweep under the carpet (there are of course other variations of the theme).

Dorna Appoints Capirossi As MotoGP Safety Advisor, Requests FIM Retire His Number 65
Loris Capirossi has been appointed in an advisory role to assist the with matters of safety of in the MotoGP World Championship.

I see no reasonable inferences to be drawn from what you have posted Gaz, only the kind of unreasonable inferences which would be drawn by a biased conspiracy theorist.

Gaz · Apr 16, 2017

michaelm said:
I see no reasonable inferences to be drawn from what you have posted Gaz, only the kind of unreasonable inferences which would only be drawn by a biased conspiracy theorist.

And that I am Mike.

Biased conspiracy theorist ............

Well that and a little fat dude that is trying to teach oneself how to google interesting things I can pass off as facts.

michaelm · Apr 16, 2017

Gaz said:
And that I am Mike.

Biased conspiracy theorist ............

Well that and a little fat dude that is trying to teach oneself how to google interesting things I can pass off as facts.

As you aware having followed the same car racing in the 70s as I did I am far removed due to time of birth from being a digital native, and am very poor at googling once I stray from PubMed or Google Scholar even on a PC at work or my own at home.

I am spectacularly inept on an IPhone at a coffee shop on Easter Sunday morning, and actually thought when I posted that I wasn't sure when the "original spec" 2012 tyre preferred by HRC and their riders first appeared, so JK has caught me in an inaccuracy there (EDIT not really actually, I phrased it specifically now I re-read my post so as not to imply that both the weight limit and tyre were necessarily present for most of the development of the bike). The impetus for it to be replaced by a different tyre, and for the weight change which was definitely many months after the formula for 2012 was promulgated, was somewhat coincidental with Stoner wasting the field in testing by margins of the order of a second a lap, but I am sure JKant can confirm for us that these were all entirely unrelated events.

Gaz · Apr 16, 2017

michaelm said:
As you aware having followed the same car racing in the 70s as I did I am far removed due to time of birth from being a digital native, and am very poor at googling once I stray from PubMed or Google Scholar even on a PC at work or my own at home.

Suspect you are right Mike in terms of the cars, and I hope you also had time to partake in some sensational bike racing in Oz as we used to have such a damn strong domestic base where now, the numbers of pure top flight riders is so diminished.

michaelm said:
I am spectacularly inept on an IPhone at a coffee shop on Easter Sunday morning, and actually thought when I posted that I wasn't sure when the "original spec" 2012 tyre preferred by HRC and their riders first appeared, so JK has caught me in an inaccuracy there. The impetus for it to be replaced by a different tyre, and for the weight change which was definitely many months after the formula for 2012 was promulgated, was somewhat coincidental with Stoner wasting the field in testing by margins of the order of a second a lap, but I am sure JKant can confirm for us that these were all entirely unrelated events.

No BS at all here mate but I bought my first smart phone 4 weeks ago and then, only for the camera as I got sick and tired of missing some good shots whilst out and about fishing for the camera in the back pack.

Mind you, now am oncall at work so also have a damn iPhone ............

Keshav · Apr 16, 2017

Gaz said:
Suspect you are right Mike in terms of the cars, and I hope you also had time to partake in some sensational bike racing in Oz as we used to have such a damn strong domestic base where now, the numbers of pure top flight riders is so diminished.

No BS at all here mate but I bought my first smart phone 4 weeks ago and then, only for the camera as I got sick and tired of missing some good shots whilst out and about fishing for the camera in the back pack.

Mind you, now am oncall at work so also have a damn iPhone ............

Totally resisted getting a smart phone for years - then when Jum's RV had two flat tires in one hour - miles from nowhere, in the middle of what looked like the Sahara (felt like 110 degrees) on the way to Laguna - he whipped out his Iphone and got a tow truck there in half an hour - I thought, that's ....... epic! Time to move into the 21st Century. Then about 5 years later... I actually bought one.

Iamapony · Apr 17, 2017

Keshav said:
Totally resisted getting a smart phone for years - then when Jum's RV had two flat tires in one hour - miles from nowhere, in the middle of what looked like the Sahara (felt like 110 degrees) on the way to Laguna - he whipped out his Iphone and got a tow truck there in half an hour - I thought, that's ....... epic! Time to move into the 21st Century. Then about 5 years later... I actually bought one.

ROFL. You know, guys, MotoGP is sorta of technology driven, if you go by the rules changes. Perhaps we need to get out of our romantic illusions of racing and realize that you can't ride these things without electronics anymore. Or we need to throw out the iphones and traction control, and bring the good ol' boys like K. Roberts Sr. back to make world motorcycle racing real again.

AntG · Apr 17, 2017

You can't ride them without electronics anymore. When BSB outlawed rider aids, the bikes became a lot less "super" to make them rideable.

Gaz · Apr 18, 2017

AntG said:
You can't ride them without electronics anymore. When BSB outlawed rider aids, the bikes became a lot less "super" to make them rideable.

Genuine question.

Could that be because the riders have NFI of how to ride without the electronics such is their impact?

IMO only, but yes electronics are here to stay but genuinely I do wonder how many riders of today have actually ridden a bike with little to no electronics?

Would be an interesting and dare I say it, painful exercise

Iamapony · Apr 18, 2017

Gaz said:
Genuine question.

Could that be because the riders have NFI of how to ride without the electronics such is their impact?

IMO only, but yes electronics are here to stay but genuinely I do wonder how many riders of today have actually ridden a bike with little to no electronics?

Would be an interesting and dare I say it, painful exercise

Here is a quote from Ross in 2006

the systems that assist the motor help a lot. These are bikes that weigh 145 kilos [320 pounds] and have 250 horsepower: if there weren’t those rider [electronic] aids, we wouldn’t even be able to get out of the garage.

This one is from 2009:

For sure the 800cc is a more boring bike compared to the 990cc: there's too much electronics. Now, if the electronics work well the bikes become almost perfect and the gaps increase, instead of reduce. I don't think the single-tyre is the solution for this problem. I repeat: the electronics are very sophisticated, the technical evolution is incredible, and next year will be even worse

And this one is from 2016 testing in 2015:

The electronics are a clear step back and at the beginning you are also a little bit angry on the bike because you think ‘[explitive]! It doesn’t work," said Rossi after trying the prototype Yamaha M1 at Valencia.

YOU figure it out. lol

HelloMars · Apr 18, 2017

MotoGP: No different front options from Michelin at COTA | MCN

Pecino says, there's possibility in the future Michelin could smuggle the #70 personally to Rossi himself, just to shut him up.

I don't know any radical journos out there more than Pecino. I've never thought that far honestly.

danski · Apr 18, 2017

HelloMars said:
MotoGP: No different front options from Michelin at COTA | MCN

Pecino says, there's possibility in the future Michelin could smuggle the #70 personally to Rossi himself, just to shut him up.

I don't know any radical journos out there more than Pecino. I've never thought that far honestly.

Where does Pecino say that?

Little Walter · Apr 18, 2017

Daniboy said:
Where does Pecino say that?

That's classified. You can only see that info on the By Invitation Only Power Slide Shadow site. No Boppers allowed.

Gaz · Apr 18, 2017

Iamapony said:
Here is a quote from Ross in 2006

This one is from 2009:

And this one is from 2016 testing in 2015:

YOU figure it out. lol

And yet we hear of certain riders riding the bike with electronics down to a near minimum or inactivated (not just CS who was known for preferring no interference) in order to learn the feel or in some cases because they prefer the lesser intrusion.

Thus the question, for me I wonder how many have ridden them and how close they got to the electronically controlled times?

Of course all this borders on nought anyway as the vast majority of road bikes now have some form of electronics at play anyway but for me, would be an interesting exercise (albeit, as mentioned, likely painful)

JPSLotus · Apr 18, 2017

The worst thing about the influx of electronics into motor sports at large were that they effectively ended the art of engine design and building. Honda is a great example with their V4 prior to the spec ECU. They could just cover up all of the deficiencies of the engine with electronics.

Gaz · Apr 18, 2017

JPSLotus said:
The worst thing about the influx of electronics into motor sports at large were that they effectively ended the art of engine design and building. Honda is a great example with their V4 prior to the spec ECU. They could just cover up all of the deficiencies of the engine with electronics.

In many ways it is a 'damned if you do, damned if you dont' type of situation.

If they do not use electronics to control or balance the equipment, the risk is that the equipment will outstrip the capability of the rider/drive and we end up with severe incidents as a result.

On the other hand, bringing in electronics to in some way control the aspects means that the sport seems 'dumbed down' so that the rider/drive has less input and often has to achieve a result that the electronics allow rather than a result of which the package should be capable.

I realise that I hark back to the old days and that technology is here to stay, plus the flow on benefits are sensational as a consumer but man, I do miss the old days

Search

Search

Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017

Gaz

michaelm

Gaz

michaelm

Gaz

Keshav

Iamapony

AntG

Gaz

Iamapony

HelloMars

danski

Little Walter

Gaz

JPSLotus

Gaz

Similar threads

Recent Discussions