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MotoGP: 2016 Round 02 - Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina (SPOILERS)

TheJuice46 said:
Rossi helped kickstart the M1 when he originally signed with Yamaha and now people are blaming him for riding his awesome bike,
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Yes, but the point that I repeatedly make in response to this is that he was afforded substantial resources by which to do so. Resources that had not been previously availed to any rider previously connected with the M1 project...riders whose input was consistently ignored whilst they battled with a career wrecking screamer.

TheJuice46 said:
and now people are blaming him for riding his awesome bike
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Typical yellow tinged entitlement. Irrespective of the appreciable input that Valentino in the development of that motorcycle - he walked out on 'his awesome bike' - built a wall in the garage because he didn't like having a team mate that challenged him for the first time in history and has threatened to quit the marque on three separate occasions. Further, in discussing the M1you are overlooking the fact that it has spanned three entirely different formulas. Also the notion that Lorenzo has ridden on the coat tails of Rossi is utterly absurd. He sets the motorcycle up and rides it in a diametrically opposite way. Hasn't Rossi on innumerable occasions accused Lorenzo of stealing his data? 'It's my ball and I say who plays with it or I'm going home'.

TheJuice46 said:
first they say he's only winning cause he's on Honda. Then it was that he's only winning cause he's on Yamaha.
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Notice you didn't mention Ducati there.

But, if you'd like to discuss the farcical fours stroke Honda titles of 2002 and 2003, I'd be more than delighted to do so.
 
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TheJuice46 said:
I was mainly speaking to the point of whether or not being on a factory m1 guarantees a podium no matter the skill level of the rider. Basically what people are saying is that last year if Dovi and Iannone had been riding m1's they'd have finished the year first and second. Actually that's not even as ridiculous as what they're saying. They're saying that if you put Tito Rabat and Jack Miller on those bikes they'd finish the championship 1st and 2nd. Don't get mad at me, I'm not saying that, those are their words not mine.

Obviously if you take Rossi and put him on Marc VDS Honda he isn't going to do well, in other news water is wet, neither would any other rider. Sorry for a basketball analogy, but even Michael Jordan (who is probably the most undisputed clear number one of all time in any sport)needed a great team behind him to win with the Bulls. Rossi helped kickstart the M1 when he originally signed with Yamaha and now people are blaming him for riding his awesome bike, first they say he's only winning cause he's on Honda. Then it was that he's only winning cause he's on Yamaha. Guess what guys he's a 7 time champion, no duh he's going to be riding on a good bike, time to get over it. Just for perspective, it's as ludicrous as saying that the ONLY reason MM or Jorge won their championships were because their bikes were the best at the time. Which is wrong, it takes a great rider on a great bike to win, unless your name is Casey Stoner, who won despite his bike. And quite frankly I see and agree with your point, I'm sure there are few select young riders who could do what he's doing if they had his bike and I've said as much before. Thank you for saying it in a respectful manor, it makes what you said more valid.

It's the few people out there who try and say that Rossi is the slowest rider on the grid or people that try to discredit him as a racer that I take issue with. To be honest, I'm so sick of talking about Rossi but people just want to keep arguing about him to me. Please everyone let me talk about other riders, I'm done talking Rossi! Lol
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I hear you. Good luck with that. Most of us here require our quotidian bitching and moaning and Rossi is the biggest and easiest target (not altogether undeservedly) for mud slinging. Just learn to accept that the norm here is that there's a pretty select group of folks here who can carry on a debate without ad hominem attacks who can fiercely disagree and carry on lengthy repartee without rancor and there are those (myself included at times) who are more interested in confirming their preconceptions. If you can live with that - you'll learn to love this place.
 
michaelm said:
I agree with you, and have said so. Not just Miller and Rabat, I doubt Vinales and even more so Iannone would do as well, they might have raw pace but not the consistency; I suspect neither has as much talent as Spies. Dovi had an extended run on an HRC bike and didn't look to be as good as Pedrosa let alone Stoner.

What people are perhaps underestimating is how good MM and Lorenzo are; time will tell how they eventually rate, but both are probably top ten all time riders as things stand, and at the peak of their careers now rather than 37; the points table last year is a matter of historical fact which indicates that current Rossi did rather well against them.

My problem with him is not his talent, present or past, or really any problem with the fairness of his riding other than the odd isolated incident in a very long career, but his off-track manipulation particularly his encouragement of the significant crazy element among his fans which he is now openly employing as a weapon against his rivals and which is ongoing cf more or less actively approving the booing of MM and JL. The word that comes to mind for his recent behaviour is petulant.
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I so much agree. Spies was so focused; "Eye Of The Tiger" and all that. Many of the crop of younger riders seem like wet-behind-the-ears dilettantes when stacked up against him. I still feel that the circumstances leading up to his exit from MGP were genuinely tragic.
 
Keshav said:
I hear you. Good luck with that. Most of us here require our quotidian bitching and moaning and Rossi is the biggest and easiest target (not altogether undeservedly) for mud slinging. Just learn to accept that the norm here is that there's a pretty select group of folks here who can carry on a debate without ad hominem attacks who can fiercely disagree and carry on lengthy repartee without rancor and there are those (myself included at times) who are more interested in confirming their preconceptions. If you can live with that - you'll learn to love this place.
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Rename the site- Valentino Rossi Haters Support Group and Fine Furniture
 
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Arrabbiata1 said:
.................built a wall in the garage because he didn't like having a team mate that challenged him for the first time in history............
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Enough with this story... The wall was requested in 2008 by Bridgestone and Michelin to protect their secrets, since the two factory Yams were using different tires. Afterwards, since the two riders detested each other, it was kept as a feature of the Yamaha garage even if it had lost its original purpose. The truth is that both sides were glad to keep it.
This is very different from a rider "requesting" a wall to be built against the other rider; it would never have happened that way.

Btw, mention the name of a rider who likes having a fast or even faster teammate? They all declare they don't care who else rides their bike, but they all lie. The first world champion who targeted Max Biaggi when talking to the media wasn't Rossi -- it was Doohan, who got mightily irritated also when Criville began challenging him. If we go back there are infinite examples of tehse behaviors -- but you guys here just want to single out Rossi. :rolleyes:
 
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levigarrett said:
I thought it was pretty funny, particularly the furniture reference. It's all good man.
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Somewhere in the 'anals' amongst the seas of my .... post count, there is a post circa 2006-07 where I mirrored Steeeve's suggestion of renaming the forum, I said they should rename it boppersforum.net. (among other 'colorful' suggestions). At the time that didn't go over well.

I .... you not, I later learned a couple of years later that the mod team had a heated discussion over whether to ban me. I learned about it over a few beers at a Wsbk race in Utah, sitting at the bar with a then mod. Ah, how the world turns eh bro?
 
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J4rn0 said:
Enough with this story... The wall was requested in 2008 by Bridgestone and Michelin to protect their secrets, since the two factory Yams were using different tires. Afterwards, since the two riders detested each other, it was kept as a feature of the Yamaha garage even if it had lost its original purpose. The truth is that both sides were glad to keep it.

This is very different from a rider "requesting" a wall to be built against the other rider; it would never have happened that way.



Btw, mention the name of a rider who likes having a fast or even faster teammate? They all declare they don't care who else rides their bike, but they all lie. The first world champion who targeted Max Biaggi when talking to the media wasn't Rossi -- it was Doohan, who got mightily irritated also when Criville began challenging him. If we go back there are infinite examples of tehse behaviors -- but you guys here just want to single out Rossi. :rolleyes:
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Once both riders were on Bridgestones the wall was kept at Rossi's demand, along with a ban on data sharing between the two.
However in 2010 when Lorenzo was putting Rossi to the sword, winning race after race, Rossi and his crew demanded to Lin Jarvis to see Lorenzo's data as they were supposed to be team mates.
Ramon Forcada, Lorenzo's chief told them to clear off as it was their choice in the first place.

Contrary to popular opinion Rossi has been reviewing and using Lorenzo's data ever since he returned to Yamaha.
He even tries to sneak around in qualifying behind him, partly as a wind up but more to get a better time than he can manage himself. If he can't tailgate Lorenzo, he tailgates Vinales. He's done it at both rounds so far, he's not a good qualifier so he does a Barberra but gets lauded for his genius when he gets near the front row. LOL
 
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yamfan said:
... He's done it at both rounds so far, he's not a good qualifier so he does a Barberra but gets lauded for his genius when he gets near the front row. LOL
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JPSLotus said:
Neither do you since you gave me the exact reaction I was looking for.

Shout out to my buddy who no doubt is laughing at your predictable reply. ;)
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i must admit i still don't get it.

maybe that's why they call it a "way homer"
'cause you only get it on the way home.

and don't sell yourself short. I'll bet BOTH of your friends are giggling like little schoolgirls.
 
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steeeeeve said:
i must admit i still don't get it.

maybe that's why they call it a "way homer"
'cause you only get it on the way home.

and don't sell yourself short. I'll bet BOTH of your friends are giggling like little schoolgirls.
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You might want to quit showing up for open mic comedy night at the clubs in Austin. Just sayin' broseidon.
 
yamfan said:
Once both riders were on Bridgestones the wall was kept at Rossi's demand, along with a ban on data sharing between the two.
However in 2010 when Lorenzo was putting Rossi to the sword, winning race after race, Rossi and his crew demanded to Lin Jarvis to see Lorenzo's data as they were supposed to be team mates.
Ramon Forcada, Lorenzo's chief told them to clear off as it was their choice in the first place.

Contrary to popular opinion Rossi has been reviewing and using Lorenzo's data ever since he returned to Yamaha.
He even tries to sneak around in qualifying behind him, partly as a wind up but more to get a better time than he can manage himself. If he can't tailgate Lorenzo, he tailgates Vinales. He's done it at both rounds so far, he's not a good qualifier so he does a Barberra but gets lauded for his genius when he gets near the front row. LOL
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The wall was not built on Rossi's demand -- it's difficult to deny that, isn't it.
The rest is the usual blah blah, anything goes that way -- it's the usual game of selling one's assumptions and opinions as facts. It's rather boring.
 
J4rn0 said:
The wall was not built on Rossi's demand -- it's difficult to deny that, isn't it.
The rest is the usual blah blah, anything goes that way -- it's the usual game of selling one's assumptions and opinions as facts. It's rather boring.
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I agree both that the "wall" originally was due to the Bridgestone/Michelin division, and that Doohan was less than happy about Criville getting his settings, and even less so about Alex sitting on him all race and trying to take him on the last lap. I think both he and Rossi considered their set-up and development ability to make a significant contribution to their overall success.

I also agree that neither Jorge or VR need each other's set up data now though, and that their set-ups are likely very different particularly since they even have different tyre preferences, whereas I think Criville was far more dependent on Mick. Rossi's main gripe now seems to be that he contributes more to the development of the basic bike, which may well be true. He is on record as saying that he considered his 1 rider team situation at Nastro Azzurro Honda to be ideal, and imo in his first stint at Yamaha with Edwards as his team-mate he pretty much re-created this, but can't expect to do it now or we would be down to even fewer potential winners.

I can name you a rider who didn't care about others getting his data, a bloke called Casey Stoner, who was happy for Dovi and DP to have his data at HRC, while iirc correctly DP wanted to keep his data private at least initially. This was partly arrogance in that he didn't think anyone could be as fast as him on the same bike I would guess, a belief which cost him at Sachsenring 2012.
 
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J4rn0 said:
The wall was not built on Rossi's demand -- it's difficult to deny that, isn't it.

The rest is the usual blah blah, anything goes that way -- it's the usual game of selling one's assumptions and opinions as facts. It's rather boring.
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The wall was already built due to Rossi running the Bridgestones he screamed for whilst Lorenzo stayed on Michelin rubber.
When BOTH riders had the Bridgestones the wall was no longer necessary but Rossi demanded it STAYED and that data not shared. It's well documented and factual that once Lorenzo started winning Rossi and his team then wanted to see his data too.
I'm not inventing this or twisting facts here matey, there's no point. It's easy for someone to research it and shoot me down if I'm lying after all.
 
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