**SPOILER** Jerez Race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 25 2007, 11:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Had anyone noticed that Dani almost won it from Vale's early celebrations?

There were 3 seconds and my guess is Rossi new about it and that he still was pulling out bits… he even looked back at the start of the straight! What I don’t get is that Pedrosa states that he ‘just lost by 1.2 seconds as a not so bad thing’… come on, he really lost by 3 seconds if it wasn’t for those early celebrations!

Does anyone know the details how Pedrosa went from being 0.7 secs behind Rossi to 2.3secs behind? I did not see at as Speed Channel was showing commercials.. Did Pedrosa make a mistake ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 27 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone know the details how Pedrosa went from being 0.7 secs behind Rossi to 2.3secs behind while Speed Channel was showing commercials? Did he make a mistake ?
He kind of cut the corner a little and went over the dirt, slowed him down a bit and that's when he gave up on Rossi.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 27 2007, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone know the details how Pedrosa went from being 0.7 secs behind Rossi to 2.3secs behind while Speed Channel was showing commercials? Did he make a mistake ?

i know why!....cause he's a girl.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Mar 27 2007, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i know why!....cause he's a girl.

You've done it now!
Nah it's because Rossi is superior and no-one can match him, not even the Pedrobot!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 27 2007, 10:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nah it's because Rossi is superior and no-one can match him, not even the Pedrobot!
at the risk of sounding like a right worshipper i think that really was the case at jerez .

Ok, its Tuesday where I live on the planet, and I’m just now gonna post a few thoughts about this last race (life/bills/work/etc sometimes gets in the way of our passions). I’ll first write out my take before I go back and read the thread so as not to be swayed by the previous opinions.

Brilliant and solid win by Rossi! He had an outstanding performance and won the race with time to spare. Pedrosa rode to a second on sheer talent (that is to say no balls on the breaks). But a well-deserved 2nd. Edwards proved that his bike has a forward and reverse. Qatar was reverse; this race was forward all the way. Great for him. I would like for him to realize he can win without permission. Even then, getting on the podium is not anything easy to do and is to be admired. Good for him. Excellent to see Elias battle up the grid. He’s obviously got the talent, but perhaps he may now need to fine tune the rest of the package, for example, working on his starts. Stoner proved that he is here to stay and will be a contender. He pressed and looks aggressive enough to put his bike on the edge, but smart enough not to go over it. Good for him to answer all those who doubted he could keep the shinny side up. Both Elias and Stoner provided most of the excitement of the race. What the hell was going on with Checa? I thought he was contracted to podium at the end of the grid. I didn’t recognize his maneuvers because the camera never had any shots of him in previous races, and so it left me wondering, who is this guy? It goes to show you that in motorsports, anything can happen on Any Given Sunday. Ah, Hayden. Once again his performance was disappointing. Great start, but then faded. He is obviously talented, which leaves an enigma to be deciphered to explain his poor showing. I hope he and his team can work this problem out soon; the boys at the front don’t need any kinda headstart. Melandri is a good rider. And I expected him in the top five, with the exception of Checa, however, I don’t see where there is room for him. So perhaps what seems to be inconsistency is really just an indication that the top of the field is just that good, leaving him to fight for a top ten spot. Makes me wonder why I spent 9 months of my life painting a Spiderman Replica on my bike. As far as Vermulen, well I think he finished exactly where he was suppose to, at the bottom of the top ten along with Nakano. With the exception of Roberts and Capirossi, I think everybody else from position 11 and back, finished where they were suppose to finish. I fully expected for Loris or Roberts to be in Checa’s spot this race. Wasn’t Roberts at the top (or near) of one of the practices? What happened is anybody’s guess. The real enigma for this race was Loris based on what was the expectations. So has he been overestimated? Did he reach the threshold of retirement? Who knows, but he isn’t exactly young, relatively speaking for the current average age of the contenders. John Hopkins was a disappointment. He looked strong and perhaps he was in a position to challenge for a podium. But it goes to show you that these guys are riding on the edge of their bikes at all times, and just a nano second lapse in focus and concentration can wield disaster. Too bad for him, however, as much he is liked, he cannot afford to crash, period.

On to the race as a whole. It was not particularly exciting or eventful. There were a few interesting passes in the middle of the pack, and a few isolated moments where it looked like there might be a challenge for a podium spot, but not much materialized. Now we have to wait ten months for the next event. Can’t we get a race every weekend?

Ok, now I’m off to see what are the takes of others on this thread. Judging from the posts generated from the last race, I’m sure there won’t be any surprises.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 25 2007, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what a sad and sorry ride from the cruisin cartetaker. at least he is consistant, consitantly crap.

what a ride by the doctor, the mans back on form.
Interesting. The race was called about the 12th post, here on the 15th post (what I’m sure was moments later), the first thing that comes to this guy’s mind is Hayden? Wow. Now if that isn’t an indication of hate overshadowing love (love and worship for Rossi), well I don’t know what is. It’s both funny and tragic, but certainly pathetic. I suppose, this will be the tone of this thread. Lets read on…

Thanks alex for the info, and the jokers for the jokes. so Pedrosa did make a minor mistake just like he did in Quatar.. hmm...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dash @ Mar 25 2007, 06:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Awesome stuff Vale. I agree with the sentiment of others about it looking like another 2005-style season from the Doctor.

Oh Hick-Daddy (or do you prefer H1ck-Daddy?) - you got your great start you kept talking about but quickly showed you never had a race-pace to get on the podium. Maybe it's time you remind everyone again about your two race victories from 2006, and how you're such a deserving champion - give me a break!
Well at least this guy managed to squeeze in two lines about Rossi's win before he went into his "clever" and "original" bashing paragraph about Hayden. Interesting. This was the 30th post. In-between these where plenty of Rossi fans singing the praises of their boy, and rightly so. It really separates the Rossi fans from the Rossi worshipers doesn't it? Rossi fans give him props for winning, not to be confused with Rossi worshippers who think part of their sacrament for their boy means they must dump on the guy who beat him to the title fair and square. Now I ask, did a Hayden fan start this tone of the thread? (Just something to keep in mind before they come back with lame retorts or get sensitive about their clear tendency.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 25 2007, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good to see Hayboy keeping up the consistancy, (saw your post Rog, harsh but funny!) and proving that Numbers dont lie.
Speaking of numbers. I guess there is safety in numbers cuz you two are in lock step as usual. Kinda like the rest of the herd.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Mar 25 2007, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've always noticed it is Rossi who congrasts Dani first. You have to admit that Dani needs to lighten up a bit.
I wasn't aware that Rossi and Pedrosa didn't get along. Did something happen? Maybe I just look for it myself on Google, eh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BEN @ Mar 26 2007, 02:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Maybe Rogers got a nice ...?

2. Well, the race didnt really live up to expectations for me - especially considering how close qual was.

3. Rossi obviously played a blinder, and crushed everyone - it's a shame Dani boy wasnt quicker - a last show down would have been cool (Wheres Gibernau when you need him!!??).


4. Hayden really shocked me. When he blasted from 11th to 4th.........I though hell, this is gonna make the race interesting & the forum busy! But it didnt materialise unfortuntaley, and he dropped like a lead ballon.

5. Best quote was from Hayden, "somthing was wrong with my fuel, but I dont want to go making excuses"..................WTF.............thats a contridiction if I ever heard one! Tell you, he;s got a copy of 101 Excuses, by Max Biaggi.
1. Sure, if you are a gorilla.
2. Good point, when I saw the qual times I expected to see a Nascar MotoGP. Instead it looked more like F1.
3. Pedrosa’s performance was very Sete-like.
4. "Lead balloon" yes, funny but painfully true.
5. It seems out of character for you to single out Hayden's comments then say he is making excuses, and further go on to make them akin to Biaggi. So I ask you modestly, have you read the post race interview of other riders? Are they much different than Hayden's? Did not Rossi for example say he needed his factory to step up for more power after Qatar? Was this an excuse for not winning in your book? How about is comments when he went down in Valencia, most people called it "gracious" but he did mention a poor machine to explain his crash. How about Meladri's comments in poor performaces, were they excuses too? How about comments from good racers after lack luster performances; are they from somebody’s book of 101 excuses, or are these explanations judged on a scale based on how popular the rider is? (Not asking rhetorically, but can you explain the difference between excuses and legitimate explanations?) It wasn't until I joined this site that I noticed a vilification of Biaggi and Sete. Which I hadn’t notice by GP fans here in my neck of the woods. But I've come to the conclusion that they were both vilified because they had the audacity to challenge the beloved Rossi. My admiration for both Loris and Melandri are well documented on this site, but it sure seems to me that these two along with Rossi are given a high and wide pass when it comes to their post race comments. Perhaps it may be time to extend a fraction of this pass to the other world champ.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electric Mofo @ Mar 26 2007, 03:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was a very tough race for everyone, never have I seen such close grid times. I've also never seen Rossi push so hard, his back tyre has never lifted off the ground so much. Hopper looked so promising but it was the same old ...., Elias and Stoner showed great character, Hayden really needs to adapt or he will be eaten alive.
Excellent call. Yes, Rossi was pushing hard. He was not to be denied this win. Perhaps that's why it may have seem a bit unexciting, but it may have been because he intended it to be this way and not let anybody even get a sniff at him. Props to him for making it so. Hopkins was a let down, when he passed Hayden, I really thought he was gonna have a go at the podium. He certainly looked determined enough to catch up to Edwards. But you have to keep it upright; crashing like that is almost always rider error (even though some would lead us to believe that its tires/brakes/setup/etc, or whatever I heard to explain such a crash). It’s on him, period. Elias seems to be coming into his own. Hayden and his team must improve, period.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 25 2007, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Quite boring race with no fights in the top at all.

Highlight of the racing was Checa insisting on closing the door no matter how far up the guy on the inside was. He must has quite a few cracks in the fairing after dumping his bike on who ever was on the inside, yeah and some rubber marks as weel. Brilliant stuff



Bet that "Numbers Don't Lie" are starting to burn in some ones ... right now. And it will get worse I'm affraid. I loved to see him up to forth, but the rest must have been humiliating.
Considerably agree with your take Babel. I think they should check Checa for steroid use. (Perhaps this joke doesn't translate well in UK/Europe, but we have had a scandal of sorts with our baseball players here in the US).

Yup, it must seem like his logos is taking a hit. But there is a saying, "getting to the top is hard, staying there is harder." It's terrible to see his lack luster performances as a fan, but I don't think it should diminish his previous accomplishments. Though it seems a theme for this year by some. It has wonderful to see my rider succeed, especially when it seems things are stacked against them; I fully expect so see more success in the future. Oh well, we call those bragging rights, and at the moment, Rossi fans get to have them. Enjoy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Mar 25 2007, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It was so sad to see a champion fade back vrs push forward ..... at least Honda is delevoping a potential winner in Pedrosa.
The haters never disappoint. As your 1st post on this thread you bring up your obvious contempt with no mention of the race winner (which you now have on your avatar as favorite rider). Your are hate first all the time. You don’t need me to expose you for what you are, you do it yourself. Do you think you can squeeze in a post to praise Rossi before you take the hater line of expressing your extreme and unreasonable dislike? (This is a retardical question).

SS=Haternation Prez=Fairweather fan CEO

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 26 2007, 04:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.Question for the Haydonettes...

2. Why is it that when Edwards gets his arse kicked by the other Yamaha, he's crap and shouldnt be there, but when Hayden is made to look a total .... by the other Honda's (<u>note the plural</u>) then
a. the bike was designed for Pedrosa
b. His clutch is crap. c. there was
a problem with the fuel.

3. Nevermind lifting his own game, Hayboys gonna have to hope that the others dont lift their game and guys like Hopper et all can stay on, coz if they do all stay on, they will be in front of him consistantly (theres a word coming back to haunt him) this year.

Wake up call for Hayboy, an HRC Honda is very rarely crap, and when your team mate is banging in the results, it's not a good omen.
Pete


First of all, its interesting how the Rossi <strike>fans</strike> mindless cheerleaders are much more preoccupied with Hayden bashing than Rossi cheering. I guess that’s their convoluted and twisted way of pledging their allegiance for their lord.

1. Perhaps you may want to ask your question about excuses to the Rossi <strike>fan</strike> worshipers, because it was only two weeks ago that threads were full of blaming just about everything under the sun, except Rossi, for not winning. You can go back and read them, they are not difficult to find.
2. Why are you assuming that Hayden fans have had much dislike for Edwards? Actually, I’ve seen much more Rossi and other fans that have been calling Edwards crap.
a.) This idea about a smaller bike is actually a fact, that somehow it is an excuse for Hayden’s poor performance is an idea that you are promoting.
b.) The clutch problems were a fact. But that was last year, so you sighting it this season is simply your red herring attempt to start the rumor that it is a problem this year. In fact, you are inventing it and trying to promote it for the rest of your camp to pick it up as if this is an excuse currently being made. It’s exposed here as a typical effort by people like you.
c.) There was a problem with the power last race, but I didn’t see you quote your boy then, what’s up? I see, only Rossi can make legitimate claims.

3. I seem to recall Pedrosa’s teammate was “banging” in the results last year, despite HRC fielding him some crap machinery. Where were you then to claim foul play? I see, you only come out when it’s the guy you like to crap on. Yeah, very fair and balanced. The intent of your posts, as they are from the camp you’re in lock step with, is shamefully obvious.

As you may have noticed, there has been an absence of excuse making for Hayden’s poor showing. Unlike, and starkly contrasting the threads after your boy didn’t win in Qatar. You would have thought based on all the “explanations” that Rossi was competing on a bicycle.

Oh Pete, you and Rog are hopeless.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Mar 26 2007, 04:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Agree with you Pete...somehow some people can do no wrong. Even when they do. Hang on...why does this remind me of something??


Well, I have found the hypocritical award of the month here. No need to scour the threads to find it, cuz here it is. of Hypocrisy

Let me start by paraphrasing you: ‘when provoked, expect a response.’

You quote Pete’s obviously bias post and say you agree. Yet it is you who claim to detest and despise and dislike these Rossi vs Hayden debates. Right? But I keep finding you in the very mix of it all in lock step with the mindless cheerleading turned Hayden bashing. On the previous Casey thread (last week) discussing the post Qatar race, I recall you crying foul play, getting sensitive, and claiming all this stuff that I later exposed to be deceitful, dishonest, and incorrect that you had posted yourself. I showed how you were infact perpetrating all the very exact things that you denied you did. Furthermore, it was mendacious (that means two-faced/misleading) and found that not only were you contributing to the debate you claim to detest, but you were going further and making things up (inventing stuff out of thin air, like pete is doing here) to fuel the fire. There is a pattern that is becoming shamefully obvious.

On this very thread, you will find there is an absence of Hayden fans claiming, “somehow some people can do no wrong”. So where are you getting this from??? I would think a person as “educated” as you who speaks “5” languages can easily go back and count and quote the number of posters that have implied that Hayden (who you are referring to) “can do no wrong.” (I made it easy for you because I said “implied” so you have more leeway, God knows, you won’t find it explicitly.) So if you can’t find it, then you made it up. But it wouldn’t be the first time would it?

Here is the difference between the mindless cheerleading by Rog and Pete and you. Both those boys have an element of tongue and cheek. They infuse satire despite the hopeless rooting and bashing they engage in; which allows the discerning person to stomach their banter somewhat. But unlike them, you claim a certain moral high ground and self righteousness, not to mention self-aggrandizement going on about your “education” and knowing multiple “languages”. You made this your defense for chastising people challenging the bias in posts that didn’t agree with you, but then you yourself have engaged in the same debate. You claimed foul play and became sensitive about people getting too testy in the debates, but you put yourself in lock step with one of the sides? Funny thing is, you have no idea the level of education and language skills of those you have aimed your condescending messages to. Your modus operandi (this means your particular way of doing things) on the threads has become increasingly obvious. Please, don’t later go claiming foul play if you yourself engage in the debate while using distasteful tactics yourself.

Incase you forgot, here is a reminder:

Ooops, did I say that (click)...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Mar 26 2007, 08:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. An interesting turn this thread has taken, suggesting that Hayden can apparently do no wrong. I don't know what forum those who think that are reading...

2. If it's not one of of the holy trinity (basspete, roger-m and baldylocks for those playing at home), then someone with some kind of variation on the "Vale you are my God, can I fellate you now?" handle is always around to take Hayden to task and quick to point out his shortcomings. Take a look through the Qatar and Jerez practice and race threads. Sometimes it's the only comment in the post and is nothing more than "suck .... Hayden (and Hayden fans)." Everyone is well aware of the .... start to the season that Hayden's having, but thanks for reminding us all again and again and again, if, on the off chance, it might have slipped our minds...

3...

1. Only one bias person made up this point. This was only an attempt to fuel the debate by making up something that was not mentioned at all on this thread. It was brought down by thin air for people to take up the case by deceit. And it worked, but to the discerning poster as yourself, it was exposed for the fake attempt at tittle-tattle.

2. The "Holy trinity"? Man that was funny. Yeah, these boys are guilty of mindless cheerleading, but in their defense, their IQ is about their shoe size, they can’t help it. (Just in case, I’m joking here.) They are harmless Sun.

3...the rest of your post was very interesting. You are right; these threads take on a life of their own. I am guilty of fueling it too, but I can't help but response to the Hayden bashing or Rossi apologist or the granted passes to the other sub performing riders while only one becomes the subject of their loathing. I need to join a 12 step program.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 26 2007, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He just doesnt seem to have the ability or desire to fight back when someone passes him.
That was a pretty profound statement. Tell us about the "desire" of the rest of the grid. This is a person who has since childhood strived, prepared, sacrificed, and focused on one thing his whole life—to be a great motorcycle racer at the highest levels. Frankly, you questioning his “desire” is mind-boggling, have you followed his career to be making such statements? Let me see, what if I said, Rossi lost the title last year because he lacked “desire”. Would I be out of line?

I think his results this year are very frustrating for him; beyond your comprehension. But lack of “desire” and will to do better is certainly not the question.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Mar 26 2007, 08:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The criticism has to be expected because he wears the number one plate.
Yes, I agree. His performance is open for criticism as the champ. But should we go around making stuff up, adding phantom excuses that don't exist, questioning his personal desire; as I have seen on this thread? I wouldn't put these in the pot of worthy issue to criticize. Lets stick to the facts and the matters we are fairly qualified to comment on as distant spectators.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2007, 04:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey Roger,Italy and the Uk have virtually identical population and they dont seem to have any problem fielding riders.Dont make excuses,you dont like Hayden because of where he is from.Someday when your country gets a rider in the field i will say bad things about him for no reason.Hang in there buddy,there is allways soccer
Hi Provol, Rog is a jerk, but I haven't seen too much anti-Americanism from him. He is bitter because Hayden took away and earned the title from his beloved lord Rossi. He will try to impress you with his knowledge he goggled and telepathically received from the all knowing keeper of knowledge which is Pete, but it just boils down to the sting they felt when Rossi was denied his birth right of having another title. Oh, and don't expect an apology when they are proven wrong, trust me, I've don plenty of that in black and white, they only see shades of Rossie colored glasses. I’ve already tried to convince them that all the crying or bashing in the world won’t bring back the 06 season. If you noticed, they try to bring it up every time they can despite their boy doing better so far this year; they communicate their rooting through bashing. It’s the worshiper’s creed, you can’t stop it, and God knows I’ve tried.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 26 2007, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.Yes they ALL do, however there are fans that says Hayden is such a saint, that never make excuses and so on.
That's a good start to brand him like the nex Max.

2. One note regarding excuses and complaints, there are times when they are justified and should be pointed out.
When Hayden after estoril says it's wrong of Repsol Honda to not have a strategy, I find that fair. When Rossi says after Quatar that Yamaha need more power, find that fair.
When Melandri complains about upgrades thats propably fair. And so on.
Let's not forget that there are valid explanations out there as well as bad excuses.

3. As for bashing Hayden, there is only one thing to say: "Numbers don't lie"
He's the champion and I and many other Rossi fans are actually disapointed. Just like many other Rossi fans I was exited when I saw Hayden in fourth. Falling back afterwards was equally disapointing. As it looks now, and I hope it doesn't end like that, it might very well look like Roberts and Criville.

4. And then you got those more conspiratoric that think some hate Hayden because he is from US of A. They don't make your life on the forum easier, just like we got ours "hayden is ...., rossi is god".
Hi Babel, I agree with your points 3 & 4, BUT

1. & 2. Seem contradictory. It is a fine line between excuses and legitimate explanations. All to often these explanations are perceived by fans of the other guy as excuses and vis versa. So explain to me how Hayden's comments should be "branded" (which implies vilified) as Biaggi? You don’t think Rossi’s or Melandri’s comments should be “branded” akin to Biaggi’s supposed “excuses”, right? Were Hayden’s comments dishonest? Are you in the position to say they are exaggerated? Was there or was there not a problem? He did in fact fade, that was plenty obvious, and so did he suddenly become a worse rider or was there some mechanical issue?

Here is what I think; Rossi fans vilified Biaggi because he challenged him. Whatever he said was always seen as excuse and never accepted as legitimate explanations.

I agree with you that legitimate explanations have their place in the final analysis of a rider/team's performance. But it sure seems a bit bias when the fans of the opposition claim them to be excuse when it’s not their guy and explanations when its their guy. It's a difficult proposition; I really don't know how to decipher myself. But as long as this enigma cannot be solved, the comment will always be perceived by the once inclinations.