**SPOILER** Jerez Race

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 31 2007, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi, it was excellent thanks, truly something special. The 250cc race blew me away and certainly got me my money's worth, all the rest was such a bonus. I reccomend Jerez to everyone, but remind you all to buy grandstand tickets. The main standing area in the stadium section was full before the sun came up.

I'll be trying to catch up over the next few days and i've already left a few bits and bobs around but please be patient with me if i have missed things.

Lucky git!

That 250 race was awesome............I dont normally watch 250's & 125's.....but I was glad I did

Was there many brits their?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 31 2007, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden rode beyond what the others were capable of last year, using both his skills and his circumstances, the same two things that make up any world title. His world title is no less worthy than any other individual title win, although you may be less impressed by it based on any number of things (riding, "luck", equipment, personalities, blah blah blah). So yes riders like Rossi stand out above the others for being all time greats, but that doesn't mean he is ALWAYS the best (in 2006 he was not). And please, whatever your opinions on hayden may be could you please reffrain from criville bashing!!

As for Haydens mid-pack performances this year, yes they have been quite deserving so far and you obviously have no faith in him to improve (i disagree), but the fact remains he was the main man last year, not a mid pack rider.


Hayboy rode above and beyond everyone else twice last season, the rest was playing it safe and racking up points.

Remember, Numbers dont Lie, 2 wins.

Pete

Why do so many people seem to have trouble grasping the concept of a championship, where a rider is ranked based on all of his results in a season rather than just a number of wins.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 2 2007, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do so many people seem to have trouble grasping the concept of a championship, where a rider is ranked based on all of his results in a season rather than just a number of wins.

Because it kills the ‘Racing’ spirit Tom… I have no trouble gasping Hayden’s Championship. However, I understand why it is hard, the word ‘racing’ itself, it’s not getting goals, or baskets, touchdowns, knocking down pins or all these great sports out there that add up points. It is ‘racing’ Tom, the excitement of how a rider ‘won or died trying’ the other ones each chance he gets on a bike… so adding up points in a safety zone towards the ‘big picture’ of a Championship kills the spirit a bit. Old time great American, English (and from everywhere) riders used to see and fight for this, also old time riders in the safety zone were a bit disliked even though they have got Championships. But that’s what makes some completely admirable and the others just Champions (It does mean a lot to get one of course). I guess it is just about killing the ‘racing’ spirit Tom.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Apr 3 2007, 05:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because it kills the ‘Racing’ spirit Tom… I have no trouble gasping Hayden’s Championship. However, I understand why it is hard, the word ‘racing’ itself, it’s not getting goals, or baskets, touchdowns, knocking down pins or all these great sports out there that add up points. It is ‘racing’ Tom, the excitement of how a rider ‘won or died trying’ the other ones each chance he gets on a bike… so adding up points in a safety zone towards the ‘big picture’ of a Championship kills the spirit a bit. Old time great American, English (and from everywhere) riders used to see and fight for this, also old time riders in the safety zone were a bit disliked even though they have got Championships. But that’s what makes some completely admirable and the others just Champions (It does mean a lot to get one of course). I guess it is just about killing the ‘racing’ spirit Tom.



thats one of the worst excuses i've heard yet. Killing the racing spirit my arse. The fastest rider in the world is not always the best rider in the world simple as that. The championship is there to see who is the best rider over a season, each race indicates who is best on sunday. Each sundday the riders race as hard as they can to both win and gain points to prove themselfes. Hayden was only the very best rider on two sundays, but over a season was better than all of them. Thats racing, deal with it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Each sundday the riders race as hard as they can to both win and gain points to prove themselfes. Hayden was only the very best rider on two sundays, but over a season was better than all of them.
Hayden was only better than all of them because not all of them finished every race due to mechanicals or crashes so we didn't see him win the championship due to his skill against other riders but due to the misfortune of other riders, hence why he's performing like he is this season because the better riders aren't having too many problems so far. What has happened has happened though and Hayden will forever be the last 990cc champion and it was a great season to watch, particularly Rossi's comeback to lose by just five points despite three DNFs and a couple of low scoring rounds.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mjpartyboy @ Apr 3 2007, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden was only better than all of them because not all of them finished every race due to mechanicals or crashes so we didn't see him win the championship due to his skill against other riders but due to the misfortune of other riders.........
Hayden won the title because he was consistently at the sharp end and didn't make mistakes.
Valentino's crashes were not misfortunes,....they were crashes!

I still don't understand why Nicky is not accepted by so many folk as the World Champ. If you break the season down, sure Valentino had a crap start. But then he went on a tremendous comeback which heaped pressure on Hayden who was quite sensibly defending a healthy championship lead. Maybe through that period Nicky could have pushed harder, we don't know.
What we seem to forget is that the season came down to a head to head, with Valentino having the advantage. Nicky won that defining head to head, therefore claiming the title. Or is Troy Bayliss the true Moto GP World Champion?

Ifs' and buts' eh!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats one of the worst excuses i've heard yet. Killing the racing spirit my arse. The fastest rider in the world is not always the best rider in the world simple as that. The championship is there to see who is the best rider over a season, each race indicates who is best on sunday. Each sundday the riders race as hard as they can to both win and gain points to prove themselfes. Hayden was only the very best rider on two sundays, but over a season was better than all of them. Thats racing, deal with it.


Well said tom, thats the point I was making, I have no problem with Hayboy's championship. He won it. end of.

However, you cant say the guy who is finishing 3rd or 4th is riding above and beyond everyone else. He put in an excellent, dependable season, and racked up the most points, and was the best rider our there twice.

I'm not having a go at Haystack, I'm just pointing out how the championship went. You wouldnt really expect anything else from me!

Pete

Humm, I wonder. In each post I've read here, every one confirm and acknowledge Haydens championship and at the same time point out some valid points. I think VHMP has a very good point about killing the racing spirit. It IS boring when you get the feeling that someone go to every race with the intention to gather (just) enough points, especially when you have the feeling that he is strong enough to be out there fighting for the victory.
I had that feeling when rouberts won, and I had that feeling when Hayden won. This has nothing to do with nationality or personality. Both riders are very likeable as persons, but I don't like them as racers (or more precise as racers in their championship year, I would love to se them both on the top of the podium again)
That kind of conservative racing do pay off now and then when there are enough events, out their control, that reduce the points of the others, but I will never, ever, never like it. It's not true raing spirit. And before someone point out some of "my god's" rather slow year endings, there is a clear difference from conserving points consionsly rather than lack of motivation when being in the position where you could take the rest of the seson off without racing as the CS is already in the box.

are u guy's gonna ever stop goin on about last season? jeezzz....... give it a rest already.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 3 2007, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>are u guy's gonna ever stop goin on about last season? jeezzz....... give it a rest already.


Never! not until hayboy hands his 2006 championship back to The All Powerful Doctor, from whom he stole it by cowardly, devious means!

Anyway, Tom started it! you cant expect a mindless cheerleader who hates motorbikes and bike racing to take a dig at the God Like Ones 2006 world championship, where he was "defeated" by a goat herd lying down!

May the sword of excaliber strike you all down for this insolence against The Only True Bike Racer....


Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 3 2007, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never! not until hayboy hands his 2006 championship back to The All Powerful Doctor, from whom he stole it by cowardly, devious means!

Anyway, Tom started it! you cant expect a mindless cheerleader who hates motorbikes and bike racing to take a dig at the God Like Ones 2006 world championship, where he was "defeated" by a goat herd lying down!

May the sword of excaliber strike you all down for this insolence against The Only True Bike Racer....
Pete
theres a few here will believe you mean that pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 3 2007, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never! not until hayboy hands his 2006 championship back to The All Powerful Doctor, from whom he stole it by cowardly, devious means!

Anyway, Tom started it! you cant expect a mindless cheerleader who hates motorbikes and bike racing to take a dig at the God Like Ones 2006 world championship, where he was "defeated" by a goat herd lying down!

May the sword of excaliber strike you all down for this insolence against The Only True Bike Racer....
Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Apr 3 2007, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>


That was a serious post! Why are people laughing?















Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That was a serious post! Why are people laughing?


Pete

ah mate, allow us the privilege to laugh now coz when jumkie sees this, you very well know what will happen to us...especially you!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 3 2007, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never! not until hayboy hands his 2006 championship back to The All Powerful Doctor, from whom he stole it by cowardly, devious means!

Anyway, Tom started it! you cant expect a mindless cheerleader who hates motorbikes and bike racing to take a dig at the God Like Ones 2006 world championship, where he was "defeated" by a goat herd lying down!

May the sword of excaliber strike you all down for this insolence against The Only True Bike Racer....
Pete

Oh no....is that as good as agreeing with you Pete?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 3 2007, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>However, you cant say the guy who is finishing 3rd or 4th is riding above and beyond everyone else. He put in an excellent, dependable season, and racked up the most points, and was the best rider our there twice.

Like i said, its race wins and championships being different. To me the championship is the bigger deal. On a weekend when Nicky finished 4th (for example) there are 3 people better than him, but over the season he was above and beyond all of them.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 3 2007, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That kind of conservative racing do pay off now and then when there are enough events, out their control, that reduce the points of the others, but I will never, ever, never like it. It's not true raing spirit. And before someone point out some of "my god's" rather slow year endings, there is a clear difference from conserving points consionsly rather than lack of motivation when being in the position where you could take the rest of the seson off without racing as the CS is already in the box.

This racing spirit thing is all a bit of a load of rubbish. It doesn't exactly fit the racing spirit for a rider to just go faster and faster untill he makes a mistake or breaks his bike. Stopping too early is far less useless than going to far, it needs to be understood that riders cant just ride perfectly on the limit for the entire race every race.

Also, i don't know how so many of you think you can question the motivation of the world champion, this alone shows how foolish you people are being.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats one of the worst excuses i've heard yet. Killing the racing spirit my arse. The fastest rider in the world is not always the best rider in the world simple as that. The championship is there to see who is the best rider over a season, each race indicates who is best on sunday. Each sundday the riders race as hard as they can to both win and gain points to prove themselfes. Hayden was only the very best rider on two sundays, but over a season was better than all of them. Thats racing, deal with it.

I rest my case Tom... Told you I can live with Hayden’s Championship. But I also understand why it is hard to accept by others, as it has been said before only lead 29 laps and as you corroborate only 2 won races. I can see both sides to the story mate!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fastest rider in the world is not always the best rider in the world simple as that...

You see, that's my point!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it needs to be understood that riders cant just ride perfectly on the limit for the entire race every race...

But what an excitement when it does happen !?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 3 2007, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Never! not until hayboy hands his 2006 championship back to The All Powerful Doctor, from whom he stole it by cowardly, devious means!

Anyway, Tom started it! you cant expect a mindless cheerleader who hates motorbikes and bike racing to take a dig at the God Like Ones 2006 world championship, where he was "defeated" by a goat herd lying down!

May the sword of excaliber strike you all down for this insolence against The Only True Bike Racer....
Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 3 2007, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This racing spirit thing is all a bit of a load of rubbish. It doesn't exactly fit the racing spirit for a rider to just go faster and faster untill he makes a mistake or breaks his bike. Stopping too early is far less useless than going to far, it needs to be understood that riders cant just ride perfectly on the limit for the entire race every race.

You may define "racing spirit" or what ever name we use for fun, exciting, brilliant, entertaining racing but what you describe above is nothing like my definition.

Elias in portugal was one of the highlights last year to me. So was the Rossi vs Capirossi fight at Mugello. That's racing spirit for me.
If circumstances make it possible to avoid those fights and efforts and those in position grab that oportunity that that is not good for the series in question. I'm not saying Hayden did, but I am saying it might look like that. Right or wrong in those asumptions is something we'll never know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Also, i don't know how so many of you think you can question the motivation of the world champion, this alone shows how foolish you people are being.

I think I can question it just as much as you are in the right sense of the words I mean. None of us know exactly what's going on in they Hayness mind but we all guess.
If anyone here suggests they know, they are the real fools.
So forgive me for having my own opinion on that.