2024 MotoGP Round 9: Liqui Moly Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland - Sachsenring

MichaelBolton said:

Mate, what happened to you? you've been on a histrionic anti-MM posting spree as of late. You know the reasons Marc didn't go to Aprilia, riders were contracted, the Gresini team approached Marc, and he already had references from his brother. Come up with a meaningful point next time instead of some reddity low-quality shitpost.

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Ha, ha probably true! Less histrionic, just some imo justified delayed reaction to all the Marquez is god posts that I've been seeing, trying to rationalize by any means his lack of a win so far this year.

My post about Marquez going to the wrong bike was meant to be sarcastic and point this out in a different way.

I agree that Marquez is a great motorcycle racer and it is true that I don't particularly like him. I've said as much many times here. That said, I am confident he will win again at some point.

Bern1 said:

Ha, ha probably true! Less histrionic, just some imo justified delayed reaction to all the Marquez is god posts that I've been seeing, trying to rationalize by any means his lack of a win so far this year.

My post about Marquez going to the wrong bike was meant to be sarcastic and point this out in a different way.

I agree that Marquez is a great motorcycle racer and it is true that I don't particularly like him. I've said as much many times here. That said, I am confident he will win again at some point.

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I don't consider Marquez a god, but as your signature says regarding Ayrton Senna. 'The results speak for themselves'

I praise him, but equally I criticise him. Long before your time, I called for him to get a 1 race ban for this:



Crashed under waved yellows, DURING WARMUP, and nearly injured/killed marshalls and Crutchlow himself. As much as I admire Marquez, there was absolutely no excuse for that accident.

synn said:

That is true, but if the 3rd best bike on the grid (The Aprilia) can win a race, then the second best certainly can.

To be fair to M. Marquez though, I don’t think he has mastered the Ducati aero riding style yet, which might be the difference maker.

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To play devils advocate with this point, the Aprilia has tracks that favorite it over the ducati. Where the Gp24 is always slightly better than the 23. No track favors the gp23 over the 24 because it is a slightly less developed version of the same bike.

#22 said:

Which is why Marquez ditched a factory Honda for it. I'm not sure if it is compliments to building a bike that is in effect, a year ahead of its competition at least, or whether the other manufacturers need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

It is widely accepted that the step in development between the GP24 and GP23 is greater than the GP23 to GP22. I think that is reflected in the results too, given that by this time last season, a GP22 had won 2 races.

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Although I agree with your post, this year Martin (to an extent) and Pecco (to a large extent) have had a solid 1st half of the season which didnt allow the GP23 guys to win anything. Considering if Pecco or Martin had more bad days, MM would have already have more than 2 wins this season.

Bern1 said:

Ha, ha probably true! Less histrionic, just some imo justified delayed reaction to all the Marquez is god posts that I've been seeing, trying to rationalize by any means his lack of a win so far this year.

My post about Marquez going to the wrong bike was meant to be sarcastic and point this out in a different way.

I agree that Marquez is a great motorcycle racer and it is true that I don't particularly like him. I've said as much many times here. That said, I am confident he will win again at some point.

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I see your schtick as being mainly against the lack of recognition of the two best performed current riders rather than being particularly anti-MM. Lex’s thing about people favouring the hegemon is imo true, and I say so as an MM fan. He is not my favourite rider all time, but is a major reason I watch currently.

It can’t be assumed current MM is better than Bagnaia or Martin, particularly Bagnaia imo, and they have earned where they are, and MM is where he is because of choices he has made and what has happened in his own career.

On the other hand the early season GP23 was problematic even for Bagnaia and Martin last year, the GP22 was said by riders to have some advantages over the GP23 which no one is saying in regard to the GP23 vs the GP24, and I consider MDub’s point to be a fair one, that there is probably no track which favours the GP23 over a successfully improved version of that bike in the GP24. MM is also beating the guys who won races on GP22s or on a GP21 last season who like him are now on GP23s. Maverick Vinales like Dani Pedrosa can also beat anyone on his day, in Vinales’ case it would seem on any bike, but a considerable alignment of the planets is necessary for same. MM also had race winning pace at Austin and possibly Sachsenring, his two favourite tracks, but if Bagnaia and Martin are to be held to account for crashing then so should he be as is one of your main points. What MM doesn’t do is blame his equipment for crashing though, even despite Carchedi saying the US GP crash was due to a technical/brake problem, which the other two riders are somewhat prone to doing.

I tend to think MM will need both Bagnaia and Martin to have issues in the same race to win this year, and consider this to be significantly because both those riders are really good. It should be much easier to discern next year whether MM is as good as Bagnaia at their respective stages in their careers, and Martin will demonstrate the quality or lack thereof of the Aprilia, given he is certainly capable of beating Bagnaia on the same bike.

MdubSTYLIE said:

To play devils advocate with this point, the Aprilia has tracks that favorite it over the ducati. Where the Gp24 is always slightly better than the 23. No track favors the gp23 over the 24 because it is a slightly less developed version of the same bike.

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It may be more accurate to say thus far no track has favoured the 23 over the 24. There may be a track coming up.

p4p1 said:

It may be more accurate to say thus far no track has favoured the 23 over the 24. There may be a track coming up.

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As Ducati seems to of discovered the art of making improvements without taking something else away its unlikely there will be a track where the GP23 is better than GP24, hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised to be wrong

mikesbytes said:

As Ducati seems to of discovered the art of making improvements without taking something else away its unlikely there will be a track where the GP23 is better than GP24, hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised to be wrong

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This is the kind of thing that will be revealed over time. We'll know by the end of the season

mylexicon said:

The issue for Marc, imo, is that his competitive advantage has been eroded by aero and ride height devices. Fast and loose is no longer the best way to rotate the bike and alter grip balance. The aero and ride height make a bigger difference in those metrics than rider skill.

Marc could win the rider's championship in 25 or 26, but he'll need to be better than Bagnaia on a bike that is built for Bagnaia. That's a tall order for Marc. He'll need some help from Pecco, or he'll need to capitalize on Pecco's slow starts, assuming they exist in the future. Bagnaia hasn't been slow off of the line this season. He's already got 6 wins and 4 in a row.

The other possibility is that Ducati want Marquez to win. I don't want to go there, but it's the 15,000lb African bull elephant sitting on the other side of the room. If Marquez notches his 7th and 8th premier class titles in red, you've got to figure its worth multiples more than whatever Bagnaia will achieve. Not saying it's going to happen, but corporate fiduciary responsibility is a real thing, and there are no rules against playing favorites.

This is actually a spicy situation. Italian pride probably compel Ducati to advance Bagnaia's career, but the dollar signs and corporate governance are leaning towards Marquez. Get the popcorn ready.

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What has kept Marc from winning this season is the equipment, imho. If he's shown anything this season he has shown that he still has it. The GP23 is simply not as good as the GP24 which quite frankly has failed to show any weaknesses so far.

As far as the battle Marc v. Pecco goes I don't see Marc as the outright favorite but i could see him getting the upper hand by getting into Frantisek's head. It'll all be fun and games until Pecco starts losing to Marc. We could have an all-out war on our hands in the next few years, similar to Prost v. Senna. And I'd love to see it.

Sennas_Caress said:

Is Acosta a bit further back because the others are quicker, due to development?

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He's much closer to Brad now than at the beginning of the season. He rode with unlimited confidence before the Jerez crash. He seems to be in a bit of a slump right now but obviously he's still having an amazing rookie season.

mylexicon said:

Overall Sachsenring was a good race. I’ve always liked the track and the event. Hopefully it will stay on the calendar long enough for me to make it over there one day.

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Let me know if you do.

You and everyone else might have to hurry though. This report sounds less positive than everything else I've read so far. There seems to be a great amount of fear that with Liberty taking over the promoters will no longer be able to pay the fee to remain on the schedule.
If we lose this race it's almost criminal. But what we really need on the schedule are more races in craphole countries where no one gives a .... about the sport.
The moment this race gets dropped off the schedule I'll quit watching. I hope Marc has retired by then.

JFM01 said:

If we lose this race it's almost criminal.

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Nothing "almost" about it. It would be criminal. Didn't Sachsenring have a record or near record turn-out this year?

Marc onboard

PRS717 said:

Nothing "almost" about it. It would be criminal. Didn't Sachsenring have a record or near record turn-out this year?

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Three consecutive record crowds, second-best turnout after Le Mans.

surendhar said:

One thing I liked about Pecco was he nver looks for a taxi unlike others.

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Yeah, he just drives home from the nightclub himself.

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Yeah, he just drives home from the nightclub himself.

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How did you beat MDub with that post?

PRS717 said:

How did you beat MDub with that post?

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With a dead horse?

Scammer, and posts, reported.

AnnoyingTwit said:

Scammer, and posts, reported.

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I just block. It's a neat new feature for the forum.