2024 MotoGP Round 6: Gran Premi Monster Energy de Catalunya - Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya

Faz said:

On MMs qualifying woes why was Alex allowed to go out in front and lead Marc for last session of P1? Was he planning for a tow? I was expecting them to swap places and thought it very weird that they didn’t. It looked at times that Marc was being held up but if he’d been up with Alex at the flag he’d have gotten another lap in as Alex did.

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On some level, my thoughts are that one is fighting for the championship, the other is not. As brothers they seem to be very close and there does not seem to much, if any envy or resentment on Alex's side, so I wouldn't be surprised if Alex was more than willing to try and give Marc a tow to help him qualify better.

p4p1 said:

On some level, my thoughts are that one is fighting for the championship, the other is not. As brothers they seem to be very close and there does not seem to much, if any envy or resentment on Alex's side, so I wouldn't be surprised if Alex was more than willing to try and give Marc a tow to help him qualify better.

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Alex said exactly that. I believe they tried but it didn’t work.

I’m just enjoying watching good racing these days for the most part. With Lorenzo retired and Fabio Q not competitive, I really don’t care who wins. So I am actually enjoying the season so far. I am liking watching the new guns such as Acosta and the soon to be veterans such as Bagnaia and Martin shoot it out. I love having Aprilia and KTM in the mix as well. It would be really great if a really good rider would step up and emigrate to one of those two bikes but I get the draw of a GP24 or soon to be GP25. I know some veterans will win some races but I am looking forward to the new generation of riders making their mark. Their time is a comin. Watching Acosta is pure joy!

Bern1 said:

I’m just enjoying watching good racing these days for the most part. With Lorenzo retired and Fabio Q not competitive, I really don’t care who wins. So I am actually enjoying the season so far. I am liking watching the new guns such as Acosta and the soon to be veterans such as Bagnaia and Martin shoot it out. I love having Aprilia and KTM in the mix as well. It would be really great if a really good rider would step up and emigrate to one of those two bikes but I get the draw of a GP24 or soon to be GP25. I know some veterans will win some races but I am looking forward to the new generation of riders making their mark. Their time is a comin. Watching Acosta is pure joy!

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I think those two manufacturers are close. They don't have the same talent (or in Acosta's case experience) on their bikes that Yamaha and Ducati have.

Does anyone else get the feeling (or it may just be a hope for me) that once MM wins, he will string a few together and start putting real pressure on Martin and Pecco?
COTA was a disappointment for him IMO because I think he would have circled the track before the season as being the one where he has the best chance to take an early win. I don't think Mugello is one of his stronger tracks but after that, you have Assen (consistently on the podium) and Sachsenring (his strongest track) then Silverstone where he has been inconsistent but that is followed by Austria, San Marino and Aragon which have all been tracks that have suited him quite well in the past. Though I wouldn't bet on it, there is a possibility that he could win 5 of the next 7 races. I expect him to be on the podium at 5 of those 7 given previous results. The middle parts of the season has IMO historically been where MM has shown his strongest and most consistent results, the tail end has traditionally been strong as well but there is one or two bogey tracks in there as well.

MM needs to qualifying better, as widely said before. But once he and Gresini will fix that issue, he will fight for the victory on every track until the end. Like he already did starting from 5th row

michaelm said:

He is actually riding well, better than Bezzecchi.

Interesting what he says about tyres, MM has been saying the same thing in regard to his qualifying woes, that the tyres don’t work for the first couple of laps.

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Tyres are the elefants in the room these days.

The set ups, the stewards, the holeshot devices, they all crumble in the face of the mighty tyres.

The qualies, the races, the crashes, nine out of ten times are blamed on the tyres.

You'll only need to look at Moto2 and WSBK to see that there is some sense in regarding tyres as the biggest unknown in motorcycle racing these days.

p4p1 said:

Does anyone else get the feeling (or it may just be a hope for me) that once MM wins, he will string a few together and start putting real pressure on Martin and Pecco?
COTA was a disappointment for him IMO because I think he would have circled the track before the season as being the one where he has the best chance to take an early win. I don't think Mugello is one of his stronger tracks but after that, you have Assen (consistently on the podium) and Sachsenring (his strongest track) then Silverstone where he has been inconsistent but that is followed by Austria, San Marino and Aragon which have all been tracks that have suited him quite well in the past. Though I wouldn't bet on it, there is a possibility that he could win 5 of the next 7 races. I expect him to be on the podium at 5 of those 7 given previous results. The middle parts of the season has IMO historically been where MM has shown his strongest and most consistent results, the tail end has traditionally been strong as well but there is one or two bogey tracks in there as well.

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Marquez has shown he is ready to compete at the front.

He is a multiple world champion, and within touching distance to the leader of the championship.

He has already put pressure on the two top riders, and will surpass them if he starts winning. If he wins once, he'll know what buttons to push, and he'll be hammering those for the rest of this season.

MM is showing a consistent pattern of bad qualifying, good racing. It will only take him to fix the qualifying and he will win

Sennas_Caress said:

Tyres are the elefants in the room these days.

The set ups, the stewards, the holeshot devices, they all crumble in the face of the mighty tyres.

The qualies, the races, the crashes, nine out of ten times are blamed on the tyres.

You'll only need to look at Moto2 and WSBK to see that there is some sense in regarding tyres as the biggest unknown in motorcycle racing these days.

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I can’t claim to speak for the who forum, but in general, its safe to say the consensus is that (if a control tire is a must) the racing would be so much better if the tires were coming from Bridgestone.

Keshav said:

I can’t claim to speak for the who forum, but in general, its safe to say the consensus is that (if a control tire is a must) the racing would be so much better if the tires were coming from Bridgestone.

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There is some suggestion Dorna are actually desirous of substandard tyres to mix up the racing. I doubt Bridgestone would want any part of that.

Whilst it would be really satisfying to see Marquez start taking regular podium spots and sweeping up wins proper “alien” style, my “fantasy” is that he gradually rise up in the points by staying on the bike while Pecco and Jorge keep crashing in their efforts to outdo the old man, and when his points lead is unbeatable, have him take top spots on the podium for the remaining races. Of course the reason I like this scenario, is that it would confirm what I said years ago, that eventually he would give up the win-it-or-bin-it mode and finally mature, which many said would never happen. I’ve come to believe that a lot of that was fueled by youthful enthusiasm and a wild will to overcome the handling deficiencies of the Honda. Call me crazy but I think we really are seeing a much more mature Marquez. Less willful - but every bit as self-confident.

Keshav said:

Then how do you explain the way Marquez was out-cornering other riders on the medium front so close to the end of the race???

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Because MM is just better on low-grip situations compared to the guys he out-paced. Just check how fast he is when there is rain or the track has some wet. Like another mate here correctly pointed out, he chose the soft rear because he knew the track had poor grip and therefore would not wear out the rubber too fast. Also, when the tire drops he can make a difference.

michaelm said:

You are probably both right, but the GP24 will have been designed and set up for maximum pace over a lap, not for top speed at whatever arbitrary point on the track they choose to measure speed, and as I have said I think you will be waiting a long time to see a GP23 use a speed advantage to pass a GP24 on a straight. MM was stuck behind Mirbidelli for several laps at Catalunya.

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Looking at the data both MM and Morbido spoted 350.6 km/h so he could have overtaken him using the slipstream. He also had various sectors to overtake Morbidelli, not only the straight. But 21 opened a gap of about 0.3 to 0.5 to MM so he could not get overtook in the straight. I don't believe it has to do with top speed in this case.

michaelm said:

He is actually riding well, better than Bezzecchi.

Interesting what he says about tyres, MM has been saying the same thing in regard to his qualifying woes, that the tyres don’t work for the first couple of laps.

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I think Digia needs to ride a GP24 before speaking which machine is better and how much.

He knows now what win-it or bin-it cost him in early 2020 when he pushed so hard to avoid Fabio's first victory, as he had done so well in 2019 with these epic battles... so for sure he's more mature about this and I think he still learning this Ducati bike. One example is Jerez battle with Princesso, the "previous" Marquez would have pushed him in the gravels or maybe falled with him to keep the lead... I was quite surprised about Bagniaia agressivity at this moment (maybe he's not only a crybaby ?) and was very well played. I wait now for a fight between Marc and Jorge, it would be even better i believe.
Nevertheless he still "scares" other riders, and it would be a good point for him until the end of the season.

gui22a said:

I think Digia needs to ride a GP24 before speaking which machine is better and how much.

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Even Hellen Keller can see the gp24 is better.

gui22a said:

Because MM is just better on low-grip situations compared to the guys he out-paced. Just check how fast he is when there is rain or the track has some wet. Like another mate here correctly pointed out, he chose the soft rear because he knew the track had poor grip and therefore would not wear out the rubber too fast. Also, when the tire drops he can make a difference.



Looking at the data both MM and Morbido spoted 350.6 km/h so he could have overtaken him using the slipstream. He also had various sectors to overtake Morbidelli, not only the straight. But 21 opened a gap of about 0.3 to 0.5 to MM so he could not get overtook in the straight. I don't believe it has to do with top speed in this case.



I think Digia needs to ride a GP24 before speaking which machine is better and how much.

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Of course MM is better on worn tyres than pretty much anyone, most of us watched his 6 title wins and many race wins.

But why couldn’t he pass Morbidelli, a light of other days, on new soft tyres ?.

As I have said I strongly suspect Gigi is a rather good engineer/ designer, and is likely not to have wasted years of his time and a lot of money to produce a bike which is no better than the GP23. The guys who have raced both bikes say the GP24 is better, and the Ducati test rider whom you cited as a supporter of your point of view is on the record as saying he is unhappy about the prospect of MM getting upgrades. Is he trying to help MM by restricting him to the superior bike perhaps ?. It is also a vague possibility that Digi is better informed than you or I am as an actual current Ducati GP rider particularly since they apparently see each other’s telemetry/data. And why is Gigi so impressed about MM’s performance on a GP23 concerning which he has been quite vocal.

Top speed is a discussion between you and one other poster as far as I can tell, but the overall package will have been designed to be superior, possibly with trade offs between top speed and rideability, acceleration etc, but I see no evidence whatsoever that a GP23 can pass a GP24 on the straights. The KTM perhaps can but is fairly clearly deficient in comparison with the Ducati GP24 in other facets of performance. We had this discussion before with the Ducati GP07, the bike that rode itself on which Casey Stoner could apparently just blast past his competitors on the straights and snooze the rest of a given lap, Turned out he was the only one who could get the thing through corners at all, and only by a quite extreme method.

Again, why was MM on fresh soft tyres stuck behind Morbidelli for quite a number of laps ?.

michaelm said:

Again, why was MM on fresh soft tyres stuck behind Morbidelli for quite a number of laps ?.

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I don't know, he didn't bring up this topic in any interview, but I don't think it has to do with the GP24. Is Barcelona track just a 200 km long straight line? No, obviously, so why didn't MM overtake Morbido in the other sectors? Even Aprilia can take a slipstream and pass over a Ducati GP24 on the straight provided it enters the line just behind the guy in front of him. MotoGP racing is too complex to answer these questions with such simplicity like "it was due to the bike, the engine, the tire, etc..". Maybe Morbidelli was just fast at that point in the race in the last sector so he could open enough gap to avoid MM catching him. Or maybe MM was just managing time and tires, knowing that it would be impossible to fight for the win, saving some rubber to the end of the race and just waiting the right moment to engange in full speed. Whatever, only MM can answer that.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Even Hellen Keller can see the gp24 is better.

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Sure it's a better machine overall. The question is: how much better is it? Does that advantage applies at every track, every sector? And how much is both Pecco and Martin doing a difference (or not at all)?

We don't know.

gui22a said:

Sure it's a better machine overall. The question is: how much better is it? Does that advantage applies at every track, every sector? And how much is both Pecco and Martin doing a difference (or not at all)?

We don't know.

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Trying do discuss anything with you is like taking a course in sophistry for young adults.

gui22a said:

Sure it's a better machine overall. The question is: how much better is it? Does that advantage applies at every track, every sector? And how much is both Pecco and Martin doing a difference (or not at all)?

We don't know.

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I'd say how well the gp22 stacked up against the 23 is a good sign of that. The 22 was able to compete with the 23 every round despite the continuous upgrades to the 23 last year. I feel the 24 is going to be the better bike every round by a long shot. No riders on the 23 that were on the 22 last year are getting close to the results in qualifying or the race that they were getting last year. The 24 seems to have the best qualities of the 22 and the aero upgrades developed 23 on to this year. Only one rider is getting the best out of the 23 this year. The 23 is a dog compared to the last few versions of the desmo.