**SPOILER** Jerez Race

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 3 2007, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think I can question it just as much as you are in the right sense of the words I mean. None of us know exactly what's going on in they Hayness mind but we all guess.
If anyone here suggests they know, they are the real fools.
So forgive me for having my own opinion on that.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, i am simply pointing out that about 90% of the evidence available would suggest Nicky is one of the most determined hard working guys out there, but despite this people will say he is unmotivated. Perhaps poor word selection
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 4 2007, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are of course entitled to your opinion, i am simply pointing out that about 90% of the evidence available would suggest Nicky is one of the most determined hard working guys out there, but despite this people will say he is unmotivated. Perhaps poor word selection

Maybe, besides, as far as I can remember it's not my words either.
And for the record, I also belive that Hyaden is a determined and hard working guy, and it could be that he just isn't faster, but I can't help wondering if he couldn't be faster in some races. Create som more exitement instead of staying 3 bike lenghts behind the two leaders in the race.

I love racing for the exitement, bravery and brilliance I see out there, not for counting points at the end of the season. That's why I think Rogers new thred are valid, alltough I tend to agree more with you. Most of the time the, in my opinion, "right" guy wins the championship.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Apr 3 2007, 02:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What we seem to forget is that the season came down to a head to head, with Valentino having the advantage. Nicky won that defining head to head, therefore claiming the title.
This here is enough to remind everybody what the season came down to; both on the same track—Hayden podium and Rossi faltered. Had Hayden crashed, he would have lost the championship too, but he didn’t. He beat Rossi fair and square. Either way you look at it: Rossi dumping his bike (without anybody else to blame) or Hayden finishing the race to secure the championship on the podium. It came down to a good old one on one fight, and Rossi went down. There have been numerous excuses, explanations, analysis, and simplistic biases to describe the 06 championship season. But there is one undeniable fact; they were both in the position to win at the very end. A one-race shootout!!! Rossi flinched Hayden did not. This means he (Rossi) is the only one to blame--something that always seems to get conveniently overlooked by the many many posters that try to put their spin on the topic. Some tried to blame it on Rossi’s tires, front suspension, etc. but I think the ridiculousness of this line of reasoning quickly evaporated (I wonder why). No amount of apologies can ever change the events that transpired in Valencia last year. It reminds me of the boxing matches of old, where the two top ranked fighters were poised to let the world know who was the best once and for all (for that fight), you could say season. This was not decided by sideline judges, it was decided by a knock out. Now all we’ve had since that day (that very moment) is a plethora of people (almost entirely Rossi fans) trying to make sense of this with dubious rationalization since the very moment Hayden crossed the line in championship victory. It has reached every imaginable and unimaginable aspect of the season and beyond the scope of racing—the bashing has covered his outpouring of emotion of realizing a life long dream, his nationality, his thanking of God, his voice cracking from the ecstasy of the event (perhaps thinking of all the sacrifices by his parents), his art on his gear (as if he created this trend), his number plate, his frustration of having his teammate wreck him (not even mentioning the physical pain of going off your bike at that speed, which injured him for the next race—which is another reason why others account for Hayden being “lucky” that he didn’t have to contend with other “injured” riders, overlooking that he took the grid “injured” himself!), his struggles with the bike (or are other riders the only ones that experience mechanical struggles like Rossi, Melandri, and Capirossi…) and his constancy to reach the podium throughout the season, this and more have been a cause to disparage/criticize his performance into what they would have us believe was an “unexciting” sub par championship.

And all of this from those that “claim” to be fair and balanced and not wanting to “take anything away” from Hayden’s championship or take part in the debate. And when somebody challenges their assertion, they discount them as Hayden-worshiping or Rossi hating. It’s the people that believe it seriously that are the object of debate, though some have hidden behind it by jokes and humor. It’s so typical (but not surprising) that the threads after Stoner’s win in Qatar came out with the tone of pointing to the bike for Stoner’s brilliant win or explanation (excuse) Rossi not wining. Following their logic then, was Rossi’s second place “cruising” or any less admirable? After all, the fact is he (Rossi) didn’t win. So why is <u>Hayden’s podiums</u> ridiculed with so much enthusiasm?--I have yet to read the ‘same’ people doing this ridiculing for <u>Rossi’s podiums</u> (funny or serious). And now it’s the “spirit” of racing? That one is new. I wonder if Rossi’s podium finish diminished the “racing spirit” in Qatar?

I surely could go on and on rebutting every single ridiculous point that has been made to diminish Hayden’s championship. All you have to do is look no further than this thread to see how first some have come out to bash Hayden while they should have first been praising Rossi for that brilliant win. Some use the bashing as a premise to make their point as on other related threads. Even though people mask their biases with the statement of the fact of Hayden being the champ but adding their bias statement <u>qualified</u> with well: “I just don’t ‘like’…” or “but this and but that…” bla bla bla. The fact of the matter is this: On this site, Hayden’s title win energized the unreasonable fans, almost entirely Rossi fans, to turn this into a debate between these two riders. Yet, by definition, he (Hayden) also beat the rest of the field (check the 06 final points standings if you’re unsure), why is it then that the fans of the other riders haven’t cried foul in debate but only center around Rossi? I have spent most of my time debating these unreasonable fans on this site, which has caused me to seem anti-Rossi. It only comes off that way because it is the unreasonable Rossi fans (not all of them) that keep wanting to diminish Hayden by way of Rossi, so naturally the point of debate centers around him. But the fact of the matter is, it’s just his unreasonable fans that I’m anti, not Rossi himself. It’s the double standard that sets them apart; and this I am anti/against. When any other rider says something about their machinery, it’s passed over, but not for Hayden; this is what I’m anti. Sure a world champ <u>deserves scrutiny</u>, but why then do other world champs get a pass when they mention machinery (Rossi, Capirossi, Melandri, etc.), it’s this double standard that ends up precipitating.

Now its all fun and games when its tongue and cheek, and I can kid with the best of them like my pals on this site, but the ones that actually ‘believe’ what they are saying when in reality they are bashing or saying they are “not” involved in the debate, or cry foul to insult, well; those are the ones that really need to look in the mirror. The ones that at every turn, they can’t help but bash or belittle Hayden, or call something clearly over the top as “gracious” all the while using this double standard, it is these self-proclaimed fans of the sport that will be the object debate, not really the riders themselves.

I’ve said it before, this debate is not gonna end this year or ever. Though many call on it to be let go, or beating a dead horse, or it being a new season, but I expect it to continue.

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1949-97 Champs (earned and deserved)
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1998 Doohan (earned and deserved)
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1999 Creville (earned and deserved)
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2000 Roberts (earned and deserved)
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2001-05 Rossi (earned and deserved)
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2006 Hayden (earned and deserved)
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2007 ______ (earned and deserved)
 
^^tell me jumkie,honestly did you sit there and type all that or did you just cut and paste from the numerous other posts on this subject you have made.
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Do as I did Jumkie, take a long easter vacation . Looks like you need one.
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Left last Thursday and going back next Tuesday. Menawhile I ride my bike when it's not to cold and playing motorcycle instructor for my girlfriend. It's spring and life is wonderful
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 4 2007, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do as I did Jumkie, take a long easter vacation . Looks like you need one.
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Left last Thursday and going back next Tuesday. Menawhile I ride my bike when it's not to cold and playing motorcycle instructor for my girlfriend. It's spring and life is wonderful
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You would've been better off finding one that could ride already...that way instead of playing instructor you could be riding off into the sunset together. And playing doctors instead
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Apr 4 2007, 01:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You would've been better off finding one that could ride already...that way instead of playing instructor you could be riding off into the sunset together. And playing doctors instead
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But of cource we are riding together, each on our own bikes, and using a fancy bluetooth headset, where I can "instruct" her.
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Besides it was hard enough finding her, and there are so many other interests we have in common, like playing doctors, so that she's crazy about motorbiking was a pure bonus.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Apr 3 2007, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>this and more have been a cause to disparage/criticize his performance into what they would have us believe was an “unexciting” sub par championship...

Not the whole Championship Jumkie… Just the races that were not fought at the very top for!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Apr 3 2007, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And now it’s the “spirit” of racing? That one is new...

Not really new. Quoting myself from Edwards Tops Day 1 In Sepang! on February 8:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Feb 8 2007, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, it is an endless arguing… I am glad it will soon start over so we have new stuff to talk about. They all have to change their tactics and stuff like that, it may not be right or even wrong, I mean not everybody will agree, <u>but for the racing spirit it is nicer to fight at the front always</u>, and for the Championship sake consistency is fundamental… Guess what I am trying to say is that we are all mates and we all have our points of view and racing plus petrol is in our blood!

On another Matter, how come you only mention “Rossi, Capirossi, Melandri” and not Eduards or Hopkins for example? (Twice).
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Anyway, hope it clears up… when it did happen, I mean, when Rossi lost I felt disappointed really, in fact angry… I could just not believe, I even thought than NO ONE was going to agree with that kind of crap going on. In my anger I got as low as to think (on top of all that has been said) that a rider just sold out (that’s how silly anger can get to someone). So with a bit of time to think, started reading or listening to other peoples opinions, obviously has been heard over and over. But at one time I just realize that there were two sides to the story, just one winner, but now I can understand each side and hope I can and try to see them both… It won’t stop, will it? This can only rectify that there actually are two sides to it I guess!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JACalvo @ Apr 4 2007, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting discussion...

I'm here only to show you my own Jerez race photos. You can see at
www.JACalvo.com

There's a direct link from the home page
JACalvo

Great pics! I'm loving it!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JACalvo @ Apr 4 2007, 07:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting discussion...

I'm here only to show you my own Jerez race photos. You can see at
www.JACalvo.com

There's a direct link from the home page
JACalvo
great pictures mate,and welcome to the site.
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Can I make a heartfelt plea to you Jumkie, can you start selling advertising space approximately every 15 minutes in your posts? It is a long read, and it would be nice if we could nip off for a pee or to put the kettle on at various stages during the post, without feeling that we are going to miss another gem of information if we take our eyes off the screen.

I'm sure that Fiat or Yamaha would be more than happy to pay for exposure to motogp fans, as I feel that I for one, spend more time reading your posts than watching GP.

Yours

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can I make a heartfelt plea to you Jumkie, can you start selling advertising space approximately every 15 minutes in your posts? It is a long read, and it would be nice if we could nip off for a pee or to put the kettle on at various stages during the post, without feeling that we are going to miss another gem of information if we take our eyes off the screen.

I'm sure that Fiat or Yamaha would be more than happy to pay for exposure to motogp fans, as I feel that I for one, spend more time reading your posts than watching GP.

Yours

Pete
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 03:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can I make a heartfelt plea to you Jumkie, can you start selling advertising space approximately every 15 minutes in your posts? It is a long read, and it would be nice if we could nip off for a pee or to put the kettle on at various stages during the post, without feeling that we are going to miss another gem of information if we take our eyes off the screen.

I'm sure that Fiat or Yamaha would be more than happy to pay for exposure to motogp fans, as I feel that I for one, spend more time reading your posts than watching GP.

Yours

Pete
Classic stuff. Yeah Pete, I'm working on sponsorship, thanks.
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I'm still waiting for those call backs from those houses of ill repute in Vegas. (Roberts took all the casinos)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 3 2007, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do as I did Jumkie, take a long easter vacation . Looks like you need one.
Haha, actually I leave this Thursday for a week to Colorado. Gonna go ski.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Apr 4 2007, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Classic stuff. Yeah Pete, I'm working on sponsorship, thanks.
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I'm still waiting for those call backs from those houses of ill repute in Vegas. (Roberts took all the casinos)
Haha, actually I leave this Thursday for a week to Colorado. Gonna go ski.


Jumkie, get your local Duke dealer to sponsor you, those gits are taking plenty fae you to keep the two beasts on the road!

Or maybe theres a house of ill repute near your local Duke dealer, you could nip in while they change your timing belts!

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bikergirl @ Apr 3 2007, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You would've been better off finding one that could ride already...that way instead of playing instructor you could be riding off into the sunset together. And playing doctors instead
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i love the way u think!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JACalvo @ Apr 4 2007, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Interesting discussion...

I'm here only to show you my own Jerez race photos. You can see at
www.JACalvo.com

There's a direct link from the home page
JACalvo
thanks JA!.......... welcome
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Apr 4 2007, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Can I make a heartfelt plea to you Jumkie, can you start selling advertising space approximately every 15 minutes in your posts? It is a long read, and it would be nice if we could nip off for a pee or to put the kettle on at various stages during the post, without feeling that we are going to miss another gem of information if we take our eyes off the screen.

I'm sure that Fiat or Yamaha would be more than happy to pay for exposure to motogp fans, as I feel that I for one, spend more time reading your posts than watching GP.

Yours

Pete

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 5 2007, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
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i love the way u think!
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At least some do!
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