MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

michaelm · Oct 20, 2015

Jumkie said:
Wait, I think you just described Nicky Hayden.

Gaz, you suffer from the same ailment as Michael, whilst trying to sound impartial make the mistake of throwing a bone. CS>VR, I know both u and Mike think this, have the balls to say it homie. (Think in your mind's eye what u base your assessment on VRs "greatness" Give CS while taking away from VR-- the preferred tires, the preferred machine, the top teams, and the league's blessings and interventions, what would the record books look like?)

I do to some extent attempt to be fair whilst being at heart a fanboy, but do generally believe that while the denigration by an element among his fandom of some (OK most) of his rivals is objectionable, Valentino's career statistics are also what they are.

Rossi in the flush of his youth was obviously as fast as most, but what distinguishes him from the fastest of his rivals is his ability to keep it going for so long. Stoner didn't have the motivation to continue after only 6 years in the premier class and 2 titles, and I don't believe could have continued to be healthy enough to compete at age 36 given his extreme style; I wonder whether the same will prove true of MM.

It is no doubt true as you say, and unfortunate, that currently the riders of only 4 bikes have a chance of winning, but being on one of those 4 bikes is not sufficient in itself as has been demonstrated by the likes of Biaggi, Edwards, Spies, Dovi, Pedrosa etc, talented beyond the dreams of ordinary men though they all were,

Gaz · Oct 20, 2015

Jumkie said:
Wait, I think you just described Nicky Hayden.

Gaz, you suffer from the same ailment as Michael, whilst trying to sound impartial make the mistake of throwing a bone. CS>VR, I know both u and Mike think this, have the balls to say it homie. (Think in your mind's eye what u base your assessment on VRs "greatness" Give CS while taking away from VR-- the preferred tires, the preferred machine, the top teams, and the league's blessings and interventions, what would the record books look like?)

I don't though Jums ............... simple.

I do not consider CS better than VR as a racer and he is no way near Doohan or Rainey (for that matter) in my mind, both of whom I rate immensely higher than Stoner.

What I will say is that I far more enjoyed watching CS ride a motorcycle than I ever have VR but that is purely due to the style that I find more entertaining to watch.

Jumkie · Oct 20, 2015

Gaz said:
I don't though Jums ............... simple.

I do not consider CS better than VR as a racer and he is no way near Doohan or Rainey (for that matter) in my mind, both of whom I rate immensely higher than Stoner.

What I will say is that I far more enjoyed watching CS ride a motorcycle than I ever have VR but that is purely due to the style that I find more entertaining to watch.

Ah, I stand corrected. I've misread many of your posts then.

VR>CS. Gaz.

While we are talking, can you answer the same question that i posed to my friend Mike which he totally ignored?

Gaz · Oct 20, 2015

What you have likely misread is not who I think is better, but whom (or which if the two) I support greater.

I will not deny it, as an Aussie I associate far more with CS than I ever will VR (many Aussies are the opposite) and I have found CS to be a person and/or rider more to my liking than VR.

As has been stated many times, I have no issues with the personality that CS presented but I also fully recognise that his personality was not to the liking of many and nor to the expectations that many have grown to want nowadays in the era of 'owning the rider'. As a direct result I will always defend that which I find defensible and will readily debate personal attacks against the personality, as for me I want to watch riders as it is the riding that for me provides the show, it is not about he who laughs/smiles the loudest as for me, the only loud should be the tune of the mechanical.

JPSLotus · Oct 20, 2015

I'm certainly biased towards Casey as he is my idea of a racer. I prefer guys who aren't all pomp and circumstance personally. But that's me.

I do know in terms of talent, he was ungodly to watch on a motorcycle. He was to Phillip Island what Senna was to Monaco. The circuit was nothing more than a canvas for him to paint his masterpiece and to show the depth of his talent.

That said, the light that burns twice as bright, burns for half as long.

littlesparrows · Oct 20, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I'm certainly biased towards Casey as he is my idea of a racer. I prefer guys who aren't all pomp and circumstance personally. But that's me.

I do know in terms of talent, he was ungodly to watch on a motorcycle. He was to Phillip Island what Senna was to Monaco. The circuit was nothing more than a canvas for him to paint his masterpiece and to show the depth of his talent.

That said, the light that burns twice as bright, burns for half as long.

Very poetic bro.

JPSLotus · Oct 20, 2015

littlesparrows said:
Very poetic bro.

Thanks dude.

*fist bump*

J4rn0 · Oct 20, 2015

Jumkie said:
Well homie, that's funny u say this, I was actually an integral part of massive logistical operations back in the day. Too much to explain, but in regards to Michelin, as do Bridgestone (a far east company) now, they seem to handle developing and shipping specifically tailored tires with parameters to fly away circuits regularly. Not sure why you think this is such a smoking gun to disprove what you already admitted was tire discrimination by Michelin.

Then probably it wasn't anything real time -- or you are just beating the bush around isn't it -- because to anybody with any experience in producing and moving things in real time, it should be apparent that anything that is specially produced during a "Saturday night" will be ready to deliver at best on Sunday morning and will then have to be provided with shipment papers, packed and taken to the nearest airport and put on a flight and go through customs at arrival and be delivered and taken to the race track in time for the race (or better for warmup if we have to be sensible) -- and there is no way this can ever be done across continents.
I flew from Europe to Japan, direct, it takes 14 hours. Got it?

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 20, 2015

Gaz said:
I don't though Jums ............... simple.

I do not consider CS better than VR as a racer and he is no way near Doohan or Rainey (for that matter) in my mind, both of whom I rate immensely higher than Stoner.

What I will say is that I far more enjoyed watching CS ride a motorcycle than I ever have VR but that is purely due to the style that I find more entertaining to watch.

I just had a heart attack gazzy

Gaz · Oct 20, 2015

MdubSTYLIE said:
I just had a heart attack gazzy

You ok mate?

Take a couple of headache tablets, lay down in the onesie, have a chocolate and 14 beers so see if that helps you feel better.

And if pain persists in the morning, go to your local hospital asap

michaelm · Oct 20, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Then probably it wasn't anything real time -- or you are just beating the bush around isn't it -- because to anybody with any experience in producing and moving things in real time, it should be apparent that anything that is specially produced during a "Saturday night" will be ready to deliver at best on Sunday morning and will then have to be provided with shipment papers, packed and taken to the nearest airport and put on a flight and go through customs at arrival and be delivered and taken to the race track in time for the race (or better for warmup if we have to be sensible) -- and there is no way this can ever be done across continents.
I flew from Europe to Japan, direct, it takes 14 hours. Got it?

I stand to be corrected, particularly by you, but the SNS tyres were I had thought pretty much an established fact, but could not be provided for the fly-away rounds, one of the reasons 2007 when things changed was problematic for Michelin, since most races had always been fly-away races for Bridgestone and their tyres were already developed for that situation.

That said, the SNS tyres were pretty much s control tyre in that the leading contenders mostly had them, with the caveat that catch 22 applied and the tyres were necessary to be a contender.

Dr No · Oct 20, 2015

The problem isn't that SNS existed, tiered tyres were around in the form of A and B spec Michelins in the late 80s. Early 500 Doohan was a "victim" of the B tyres for a while
The issue was that fans were fed a load of ........ about the likes of Rossi's amazing WUP performances after "finding something overnight".

(yeah yeah, I've said this before, but deliberate opaqueness from those who boost the sport ..... me)

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 20, 2015

Dr No said:
The problem isn't that SNS existed, tiered tyres were around in the form of A and B spec Michelins in the late 80s. Early 500 Doohan was a "victim" of the B tyres for a while
The issue was that fans were fed a load of ........ about the likes of Rossi's amazing WUP performances after "finding something overnight".

(yeah yeah, I've said this before, but deliberate opaqueness from those who boost the sport ..... me)

You'd think the fact that he still does that would help disprove the existence of sns tiers

Jumkie · Oct 20, 2015

MdubSTYLIE said:
You'd think the fact that he still does that would help disprove the existence of sns tiers

Because he's overwhelming won the 'majority' of the races 'this' season in the same commanding way during the SNS Era.

yzthumpa · Oct 20, 2015

No, but he qualifies 3rd row then gets to the front and battles for the win - it's basically the same degree of improvement.

Jumkie · Oct 20, 2015

yzthumpa said:
No, but he qualifies 3rd row then gets to the front and battles for the win - it's basically the same degree of improvement.

I wasn't aware wining the race was equivalent to coming in third. So during the SNS Era he'd win the races but now no SNS and he arrives on the podium and this is proof that he still found something over night? Uhm...let's get back to your: Marc is a mastermind implementing a scheme to destroy Lorenzo's confidence by helping Rossi. No, not that you were making more sense, but rather the craziness of it was more entertaining.

JPSLotus · Oct 20, 2015

Jumkie said:
I wasn't aware wining the race was equivalent to coming in third. So during the SNS Era he'd win the races but now no SNS and he arrives on the podium and this is proof that he still found something over night? Uhm...let's get back to your: Marc is a mastermind implementing a scheme to destroy Lorenzo's confidence by helping Rossi. No, not that you were making more sense, but rather the craziness of it was more entertaining.

I read something before that MM was not trying to help Rossi, but trying to ruin Rossi's race. Apparently Rossi was insinuating that he got held up by MM crucially a number of times, and he had the pace to get past Lorenzo, but ultimately was not able to do so because of MM. Payback for Argentina and Assen.

JPSLotus · Oct 20, 2015

GP Malasia MotoGP 2015: Rossi siembra dudas sobre Márquez - MARCA.com

MdubSTYLIE · Oct 20, 2015

Jumkie said:
Because he's overwhelming won the 'majority' of the races 'this' season in the same commanding way during the SNS Era.

No because Rossi always races better than he qualifies.

Jumkie · Oct 20, 2015

JPSLotus said:
I read something before that MM was not trying to help Rossi, but trying to ruin Rossi's race. Apparently Rossi was insinuating that he got held up by MM crucially a number of times, and he had the pace to get past Lorenzo, but ultimately was not able to do so because of MM. Payback for Argentina and Assen.

Haha, No! Thumpas will not like this. Actually JP, that phantom hand signal was really Marc trying to loosen that hand tied behind his back, right Krops? 'Ironically' it was misinterpreted by some that Marc was trying to help Rossi.

Its a bit convoluted, but Marc was trying to slow down Rossi by then catching up to Lorenzo, then he remembered the mastermind scheme he had developed to destroy Lorenzo's confidence, so he dropped back, tried to put Rossi on his back, but understand that's a bit difficult when you only have one arm free. At some point Iannone thought the had signal was for him, but nop, wrong Italian. Marc realizing the slower Rossi couldn't keep up bolted to the front and reluctantly won the race.

MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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