MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

Keshav said:
Great, well reasoned first post. Welcome aboard; it's a zoo here, but as zoos go - this is one of the more fun ones.
Cheers,
Keshav

Haha rushing to come up with cute nicknames for noobs and liking posts like you get a nickel every time you click, hilarious. :thumbs:

shovelhead · Oct 19, 2015

anything odd about this screenshot

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

shovelhead said:
anything odd about this screenshot

Yes, they forget the Mexican emblem.

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
Ah yes, thats exactly what Marquez was thinking at Phillip Island.

Ok, cool, im now in the lead, easy win...wait wait, so if I can get Rossi up here with me this will totally .... with Lorenzo, may more than me just beating him...because when Rossi retires Lorenz will totally remember this race and it will destroy his confidence next year.

Got it.

In no way do I think that Marquez dropped back to help Rossi. I'm not buying into that conspiracy. And I think Marquez will go for victory first in any situation. But in going for victory, if the circumstance arises in which he can influence the points race, he'll take advantage of it because Lorenzo losing helps Marquez. If you don't think head games and confidence play a role in this level of racing, you're mistaken. If you don't think a championship would help Lorenzo's mental state in future seasons, you're delusional.

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

This comes from the pre-race press conference:
"Marc Marquez said that he is conscious of the two men fighting for the championship and would not want to affect the outcome. He'll race for the win of course, but he smiled at Jorge and assured him there wouldn't be another Jerez '13 pass on the last corner."

Did it appear to you like Marquez sat back and didn't take any unnecessary risks so as not to influence the championship?:giggle:

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
In no way do I think that Marquez dropped back to help Rossi. I'm not buying into that conspiracy. And I think Marquez will go for victory first in any situation. But in going for victory, if the circumstance arises in which he can influence the points race, he'll take advantage of it because Lorenzo losing helps Marquez.

Cool Thumpa (can I call u that? Ah ignore, inside joke). uhm I see, I must of mistaken your previous posts as supporting this idea that Marquez would entertain helping Rossi to disrupt Lorenzo's confidence. My bad. I guess its only if the occasion arise.

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
This comes from the pre-race press conference:
"Marc Marquez said that he is conscious of the two men fighting for the championship and would not want to affect the outcome. He'll race for the win of course, but he smiled at Jorge and assured him there wouldn't be another Jerez '13 pass on the last corner."

Did it appear to you like Marquez sat back and didn't take any unnecessary risks so as not to influence the championship?:giggle:

Interesting. I thought his move on Lorenzo at PI was clean. And I would add free of unnecessary risks. You want an example of a last lap dash for the win with ample risk? Revisit Assen GP this year.

Great to see new peeps joining, the delusion that those who had supposedly ruined the forum to death has been greatly exaggerated.

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
Cool Thumpa (can I call u that? Ah ignore, inside joke). uhm I see, I must of mistaken your previous posts as supporting this idea that Marquez would entertain helping Rossi to disrupt Lorenzo's confidence. My bad. I guess its only if the occasion arise.

Thumpa is what most people call me (harkens back to being one of the first at the MX track to ride the 4-stroke YZ).
Simply WINNING is helping Rossi to win. Albeit indirectly. There are many levels between "having zero interest in who wins the title" and "dropping back from the lead to try to bring Rossi to the front." Don't look at through black and white goggles. The lengths Marquez will go to in order the help Rossi to win the title fall somewhere within those 50 shades of gray.
And his move was clean. But throughout the race there were many moves by Marquez and Iannone that looked pretty risky (or exceedingly close) for moves being made on a contender by guys who are no longer contenders. (Has anyone considered that Iannone could become the most hated man in Italy if Rossi losses the title because of those few additional points lost?). Again, I don't think Marquez would give up a win or drop off the lead to help Rossi. But would he "delay" a move he knew he could eventually make if it means bringing Rossi with him? I don't think it is outside of the realm of possibility.

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
Thumpa is what most people call me (harkens back to being one of the first at the MX track to ride the 4-stroke YZ).
Simply WINNING is helping Rossi to win. Albeit indirectly. There are many levels between "having zero interest in who wins the title" and "dropping back from the lead to try to bring Rossi to the front." Don't look at through black and white goggles. The lengths Marquez will go to in order the help Rossi to win the title fall somewhere within those 50 shades of gray.

I honestly don't think it crossed his mind one ioda that winning the race helped VR towards the title and it's long term effect on Lorenzo 's "confidence". Frankly, entertaining the thought that it's somewhere along a spectrum of like/scheme between VR-------------JL, and that this was taken into consideration by Marc, regardless of magnitude is to me rather mind-boggling. Do I believe he likes one more than the other as a question of social relationships, yes. Then again, Iannone is absolute homies with Rossi, it didn't appear like that on the track. Sorry Thumps, putting it nicely it sounds like a silly idea. I think what Marc meant about not effecting the championship was in regard to punts. And even that I don't believe, because these guys for the most part seem to go full shark mode during a race.

Fav all time MX bike, YZ125 2-smoke

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Just curious...do you think mind games and the breaking of confidence had nothing to do with Rossi's era of dominance over challengers like Gibernau, Biaggi, Melandri, etc.? Even Stoner...“Unfortunately, he hasn’t spoken to me in a while now,” grumbled the young Aussie, “and he’s throwing in a few comments I’m not really happy with. He’s been one of my idols a long time. I spoke to him and said that I didn’t want it to end up like it did with Gibernau or Biaggi.”

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
Just curious...do you think mind games and the breaking of confidence had nothing to do with Rossi's era of dominance over challengers like Gibernau, Biaggi, Melandri, etc.?

I thought we were talking about Marc.

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
I thought we were talking about Marc.

I was trying to measure your extent of delusion.

I'm guessing that you're aware of the existence of mind games and breaking one's confidence - you just think it 's beneath Marquez.

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
I was trying to measure your extent of delusion.

Thank you. How did I measure up?

Are we going to continue our conversation about how Marc was looking to help Rossi as a long term scheme to destroy Lorenzo's confidence?

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
Thank you. How did I measure up?

Are we going to continue our conversation about how Marc was looking to help Rossi as a long term scheme to destroy Lorenzo 's confidence?

It depends on whether or not you even acknowledge that such a thing exists...hence the Rossi quesion.:ninja:

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
It depends on whether or not you even acknowledge that such a thing exists...hence the Rossi quesion.:ninja:

Are we going to talk about Marc?

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

Keshav said:
.

You graphically illustrated my point perfect.

yzthumpa · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
Are we going to talk about Marc?

Certainly. Is Marc simply above mind games or not strong-minded enough to pull them off?

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

yzthumpa said:
Certainly. Is Marc simply above mind games or not strong-minded enough to pull them off?

I don't think mind games were in play at PI by Marc other than concentrating on wining the race. It was a race that required his full attention and acumen as a top professional racer while completely engaged in an acute epic on track battle.

Again, socially he may have a preference as to who he wants to have a beer. Each rider has their personality, i dont think mind games are Marc's thing. I don't think he viewed the race through the lense of a future war with Lorenzo, as he was battling with Iannone, Rossi, and Lorenzo while performing on the knife's edge, .... even dodging seagulls. That he may have spared a thought for a scheme to destroy Lorenzo's confidence is well, to quote you..."delusional".

Now then please continue to elaborate why you think this race was about Marquez implementing a plan of mind-games. Its all very interesting, I want to hear more. Please continue.

Keshav · Oct 19, 2015

Jumkie said:
You graphically illustrated my point perfect.

.

Jumkie · Oct 19, 2015

Keshav said:
.

Thanks for acknowledging I've said something "intelligent ". I appreciate using your response as a barometer. Its great having this feature to gage my posts.

MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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