MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)
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I'm going full tin foil hat now,
Marc was playing the whole race, I actually think he was trying to get Rossi to the front but Ianonne was proving to be too much of a problem on the straight.
The reasons for this are two fold, firstly-he reeled Lorenzo in mid race fairly easily, got past-then slowed and Lorenzo took him easily-for this Marc was sighting his front tire 'over heating' which seems a little odd as he was able to turn that speed back on pretty quickly afterwards.
Then near the end he seemed to want to know where Rossi was by lagging back and that odd little hand move just before he cleared out-Rossi was suppose to follow, and would have if he didn't have that Ducati blasting past him on the straight every lap and getting in the way of his superior speed at the southern loop and Stoner corner into Honda.
Marc then quickly realized on the second last lap that it wasn't happening so he did the next best thing -pulled the pin, caught lorenzo and won the race. Rossi's little signal to Marc on the cool down lap was also interesting
Rossi seems quite vocal about his team making mistakes this weekend (as well as himself) I think the gearing thing might be what he was referencing, very difficult considering he was faster than Lorenzo and Ianonne for a lot of the race.
I'm sure most of us don't believe Ducati's PR lines on the extra fuel not making a difference, as soon as they lost 2 litres they went back to mid-pack-no surprises. Throw in far more fresh engines and you see what we saw yesterday. Props to Gigi though, the thing at least goes around corners pretty well now too!
I just hope that a regulation advantage and bizarre 'one off' performances don't decide the title (2006......all over again).
At PI the straight plays a massive part in the race outcome when they are close like this, due to the wind from Bass Straight and the ridiculous speed of Doohan corner, and if you don't believe this take another look at Moto3 from yesterday!
Lots of Bad luck for Rossi this season hey Jorge, yesterday he was faster than you but didn't beat you
Marc was playing the whole race, I actually think he was trying to get Rossi to the front but Ianonne was proving to be too much of a problem on the straight.
The reasons for this are two fold, firstly-he reeled Lorenzo in mid race fairly easily, got past-then slowed and Lorenzo took him easily-for this Marc was sighting his front tire 'over heating' which seems a little odd as he was able to turn that speed back on pretty quickly afterwards.
Then near the end he seemed to want to know where Rossi was by lagging back and that odd little hand move just before he cleared out-Rossi was suppose to follow, and would have if he didn't have that Ducati blasting past him on the straight every lap and getting in the way of his superior speed at the southern loop and Stoner corner into Honda.
Marc then quickly realized on the second last lap that it wasn't happening so he did the next best thing -pulled the pin, caught lorenzo and won the race. Rossi's little signal to Marc on the cool down lap was also interesting
Rossi seems quite vocal about his team making mistakes this weekend (as well as himself) I think the gearing thing might be what he was referencing, very difficult considering he was faster than Lorenzo and Ianonne for a lot of the race.
I'm sure most of us don't believe Ducati's PR lines on the extra fuel not making a difference, as soon as they lost 2 litres they went back to mid-pack-no surprises. Throw in far more fresh engines and you see what we saw yesterday. Props to Gigi though, the thing at least goes around corners pretty well now too!
I just hope that a regulation advantage and bizarre 'one off' performances don't decide the title (2006......all over again).
At PI the straight plays a massive part in the race outcome when they are close like this, due to the wind from Bass Straight and the ridiculous speed of Doohan corner, and if you don't believe this take another look at Moto3 from yesterday!
Lots of Bad luck for Rossi this season hey Jorge, yesterday he was faster than you but didn't beat you
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I'm going full tin foil hat now,
Marc was playing the whole race, I actually think he was trying to get Rossi to the front but Ianonne was proving to be too much of a problem on the straight.
The reasons for this are two fold, firstly-he reeled Lorenzo in mid race fairly easily, got past-then slowed and Lorenzo took him easily-for this Marc was sighting his front tire 'over heating' which seems a little odd as he was able to turn that speed back on pretty quickly afterwards.
Then near the end he seemed to want to know where Rossi was by lagging back and that odd little hand move just before he cleared out-Rossi was suppose to follow, and would have if he didn't have that Ducati blasting past him on the straight every lap and getting in the way of his superior speed at the southern loop and Stoner corner into Honda.
Marc then quickly realized on the second last lap that it wasn't happening so he did the next best thing -pulled the pin, caught lorenzo and won the race. Rossi's little signal to Marc on the cool down lap was also interesting
Rossi seems quite vocal about his team making mistakes this weekend (as well as himself) I think the gearing thing might be what he was referencing, very difficult considering he was faster than Lorenzo and Ianonne for a lot of the race.
I'm sure most of us don't believe Ducati's PR lines on the extra fuel not making a difference, as soon as they lost 2 litres they went back to mid-pack-no surprises. Throw in far more fresh engines and you see what we saw yesterday. Props to Gigi though, the thing at least goes around corners pretty well now too!
I just hope that a regulation advantage and bizarre 'one off' performances don't decide the title (2006......all over again).
At PI the straight plays a massive part in the race outcome when they are close like this, due to the wind from Bass Straight and the ridiculous speed of Doohan corner, and if you don't believe this take another look at Moto3 from yesterday!
Lots of Bad luck for Rossi this season hey Jorge, yesterday he was faster than you but didn't beat you
And his motivation for doing this is....?
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First.... MM, if i remember correctly, idolized Rossi before arriving in MotoGP...
Second and possibly most importantly, MM probably doesn't want another Spaniard to the first at holding 3 world MotoGP titles...
What more motivation does MM need to help out his friend and only man that can beat JLo to the title?
Arrabbiata1
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'The bike displayed many of the characteristics' - I agree. To the observer, Marquez likes to get the thing crossed up. I think this year the peakier motor and the new stiffer chassis were not in harmony. Marquez stated that it wouldn't let him ride it like he wanted to straight from the Valencian test. As I said, I think certain circuits such as Austin, and Assen mitigate this (and certainly the upcoming Sepang). I would also contend that unlike 2013, the thing is also a handful to get stopped. However, I also believe that many of Marquez's misgivings were sorted by improved throttle response before the deadline on software adjustment came in.
Then there is the psychological dimension, particularly for a racer like Marquez that as you say rides on the limit to go fast. I don't think the confidence to do that was as strong as it was in 2013. Like you say, ratchet up the pressure and then throw a vastly improved Yamaha into the equation that is customised to its riders preferences and largely does what you tell it to and the cracks begin to show. In Moto 2 this year many riders haven't gelled with the new Kalex chassis. Like Marquez, Tito hated the feel of it from the first test, also stating that he couldn't ride it the same way as the year before - yet to the onlooker, the bike displayed many of the same characteristics that it did last year.
To a greater or lesser extent, an engineer may well be able to ameliorate, compensate and dial out some of the tangible problems technically, but mentally, the discord that this implants can be harder to weed out.
I don't think the Honda has ever been a POS this year, but I do think that it is an excessively complex unforgiving package and that exploiting and mastering its strengths is perhaps a greater challenge than the M1. This as much owes to the differing philosophy at HRC which we have already debated to death.
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That idolising was quickly forgotten this summer after Assen and Argentina. I personally think Marquez doesn't give a .... which Yam rider wins it, because all he cares about is winning the title himself and if he can't win it this yr, then winning as many races as possible.
I don't recall any regulation changes in 2006, or the championship being by a bizarre one off occurrence. Certainly there were unusual occurrences in at least 3 races; I would agree that both Pedrosa taking out Nicky in one race and Toddi throwing his bike down the road in the last race were bizarre, but don't see how Elias performing better when given the same tyres as the riders he beat qualifies as such. None of these involved luck for Nicky imo.I'm going full tin foil hat now,
Marc was playing the whole race, I actually think he was trying to get Rossi to the front but Ianonne was proving to be too much of a problem on the straight.
The reasons for this are two fold, firstly-he reeled Lorenzo in mid race fairly easily, got past-then slowed and Lorenzo took him easily-for this Marc was sighting his front tire 'over heating' which seems a little odd as he was able to turn that speed back on pretty quickly afterwards.
Then near the end he seemed to want to know where Rossi was by lagging back and that odd little hand move just before he cleared out-Rossi was suppose to follow, and would have if he didn't have that Ducati blasting past him on the straight every lap and getting in the way of his superior speed at the southern loop and Stoner corner into Honda.
Marc then quickly realized on the second last lap that it wasn't happening so he did the next best thing -pulled the pin, caught lorenzo and won the race. Rossi's little signal to Marc on the cool down lap was also interesting
Rossi seems quite vocal about his team making mistakes this weekend (as well as himself) I think the gearing thing might be what he was referencing, very difficult considering he was faster than Lorenzo and Ianonne for a lot of the race.
I'm sure most of us don't believe Ducati's PR lines on the extra fuel not making a difference, as soon as they lost 2 litres they went back to mid-pack-no surprises. Throw in far more fresh engines and you see what we saw yesterday. Props to Gigi though, the thing at least goes around corners pretty well now too!
I just hope that a regulation advantage and bizarre 'one off' performances don't decide the title (2006......all over again).
At PI the straight plays a massive part in the race outcome when they are close like this, due to the wind from Bass Straight and the ridiculous speed of Doohan corner, and if you don't believe this take another look at Moto3 from yesterday!
Lots of Bad luck for Rossi this season hey Jorge, yesterday he was faster than you but didn't beat you
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Lots of Bad luck for Rossi this season hey Jorge, yesterday he was faster than you but didn't beat you
I had to register because of this.
Jesus christ, bad luck for Rossi this season?! Really?! He was and he still is lucky as hell. No retirement this season. Except two races every time on the podium.
Lots of bad luck for Lorenzo!:
1) In 2 races he had problems with helmet
2) Too many rain races
3) One retirement
4) In last two races he was leading but didn't manage to win
5) He had slow start to first three races of the season
And I forget-how about Rossi's cheated wins in Argentina and especially Assen? He should be DSQ for Assen but FIM and Dorna has worries that yellow army will kill them.
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Welcome to the forum. You'll find that facts dont mean much around here. You forgot to add the points Marquez has gifted Rossi, either by crashing or by taking them away from Lorenzo. Without these gifts VR wouldn't be leading the points. Along with this year's tires, its been like Christmas for VR all season.
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I made this argument for a better part of a year in 07. In fact im pretty sure I pointed this out in the first race of 2007, Qatar. Many erroneous conclusions are often made without understanding or accepting the counter intuition.
The speed trap times have regularly been low for the factory Yamaha. There is a designed reason for this fact. The erroneous assumption is that they lack power, and as the erroneous conclusion goes, they are deficient against rivals who have visible and documented registered top speed.
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These aren't gifts - it's racing. Things are cyclical, and this year the Yamaha has been more consistent than the Honda. In racing, .... happens. Always has and always will. As Ricky Carmichael once said, "You make your own luck. I believe that you make your own luck if you do things the right way." Getting results is more the result of proper preparation and excellent work on several fronts, right down to the engineers and the rest of the team and the equipment you align yourself with. Rossi put it all together this year. Marquez's "gifts" were simply the result of some failures on Honda's part, and Marquez's over-reaching to try to compensate for those failures. Bad luck is a seagull in the face - not a slide from a loose front end in the heat of a battle. A fogged up helmet is not bad luck - it's paying for poor choices and valuing the extra buck over the right equipment (cashing in on your previous success instead of preparing for your NEXT success). It all comes down to preparation and focus.
Rossi has given just as many "gifts" via his poor qualifying. He's had the pace on many a race day, having put himself out of contention before the race started on qualifying day. But he's also put himself into contention late in many races, and perhaps this comes down to focusing more on race pace than qualifying pace during practice. Rossi's successes early in the season were all the result of his vast experience - a few of the early races came down more to tire choice and strategy rather than outright speed. He earned those results through his years of experience while some of the younger guys made poor choices. A lot of those many podiums-not-wins came because he qualified badly and took too long to make his initial passes while the guys up front checked out on the pack. Yet that patience in passing in the early stages when tires are colder and nervous responses are heightened are what has kept him from crashing or being taken out by youngsters. But as Nicky showed in '06, consistent podiums can win titles.
As far as Marquez's possible desire to help Rossi, I'm kind of surprised that this discussion hasn't arisen earlier in this thread (unless it's just been addressed elsewhere on the forum). This is likely Rossi's last hurrah. Marquez has to deal with Lorenzo - a "fellow" countrymen no less - for years to come. The LAST thing Marquez wants is Lorenzo reasserting his "dominance"
with another championship. It's all about the head games, and I'd be surprised if there aren't obvious moves made by Marquez in these final races.
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Some conspiracy is based on a pattern of indisputable facts, some like yours here is based on astronomically long boe hunches. I mean, if you actually embraced conspiracy theories 'directly'...which you don't.
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I don't think it's about the record books in the short run (i.e., first Spaniard to hit 3 titles), it's more about the long run and Lorenzo's confidence. I don't think it's as much about helping Rossi win as it is about Lorenzo losing. I think it's about Marquez helping ANY rider not named Lorenzo to win the title.
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These aren't gifts - it's racing. Things are cyclical, and this year the Yamaha has been more consistent than the Honda. In racing, .... happens. Always has and always will. As Ricky Carmichael once said, "You make your own luck. I believe that you make your own luck if you do things the right way." Getting results is more the result of proper preparation and excellent work on several fronts, right down to the engineers and the rest of the team and the equipment you align yourself with. Rossi put it all together this year. Marquez's "gifts" were simply the result of some failures on Honda's part, and Marquez's over-reaching to try to compensate for those failures. Bad luck is a seagull in the face - not a slide from a loose front end in the heat of a battle. A fogged up helmet is not bad luck - it's paying for poor choices and valuing the extra buck over the right equipment (cashing in on your previous success instead of preparing for your NEXT success). It all comes down to preparation and focus.
Rossi has given just as many "gifts" via his poor qualifying. He's had the pace on many a race day, having put himself out of contention before the race started on qualifying day. But he's also put himself into contention late in many races, and perhaps this comes down to focusing more on race pace than qualifying pace during practice. Rossi's successes early in the season were all the result of his vast experience - a few of the early races came down more to tire choice and strategy rather than outright speed. He earned those results through his years of experience while some of the younger guys made poor choices. A lot of those many podiums-not-wins came because he qualified badly and took too long to make his initial passes while the guys up front checked out on the pack. Yet that patience in passing in the early stages when tires are colder and nervous responses are heightened are what has kept him from crashing or being taken out by youngsters. But as Nicky showed in '06, consistent podiums can win titles.
As far as Marquez's possible desire to help Rossi, I'm kind of surprised that this discussion hasn't arisen earlier in this thread (unless it's just been addressed elsewhere on the forum). This is likely Rossi's last hurrah. Marquez has to deal with Lorenzo - a "fellow" countrymen no less - for years to come. The LAST thing Marquez wants is Lorenzo reasserting his "dominance"
Great, well reasoned first post. Welcome aboard; it's a zoo here, but as zoos go - this is one of the more fun ones.
Cheers,
Keshav
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These aren't gifts - it's racing. Things are cyclical, and this year the Yamaha has been more consistent than the Honda. In racing, .... happens. Always has and always will. As Ricky Carmichael once said, "You make your own luck. I believe that you make your own luck if you do things the right way." Getting results is more the result of proper preparation and excellent work on several fronts, right down to the engineers and the rest of the team and the equipment you align yourself with. Rossi put it all together this year. Marquez's "gifts" were simply the result of some failures on Honda's part, and Marquez's over-reaching to try to compensate for those failures. Bad luck is a seagull in the face - not a slide from a loose front end in the heat of a battle. A fogged up helmet is not bad luck - it's paying for poor choices and valuing the extra buck over the right equipment (cashing in on your previous success instead of preparing for your NEXT success). It all comes down to preparation and focus.
Rossi has given just as many "gifts" via his poor qualifying. He's had the pace on many a race day, having put himself out of contention before the race started on qualifying day. But he's also put himself into contention late in many races, and perhaps this comes down to focusing more on race pace than qualifying pace during practice. Rossi's successes early in the season were all the result of his vast experience - a few of the early races came down more to tire choice and strategy rather than outright speed. He earned those results through his years of experience while some of the younger guys made poor choices. A lot of those many podiums-not-wins came because he qualified badly and took too long to make his initial passes while the guys up front checked out on the pack. Yet that patience in passing in the early stages when tires are colder and nervous responses are heightened are what has kept him from crashing or being taken out by youngsters. But as Nicky showed in '06, consistent podiums can win titles.
As far as Marquez's possible desire to help Rossi, I'm kind of surprised that this discussion hasn't arisen earlier in this thread (unless it's just been addressed elsewhere on the forum). This is likely Rossi's last hurrah. Marquez has to deal with Lorenzo - a "fellow" countrymen no less - for years to come. The LAST thing Marquez wants is Lorenzo reasserting his "dominance"
Welcome to the forum. Luck is a tricky thing, but I suspect its described based on one's perspective and allegiance. Funny but all the "bad luck" for Jlo you attributed to his poor choices, but in VRs case you blame Honda for Marquez's misfortunes that tangentially benefited Rossi. Perhaps Rossi "made" Honda engineer a poor RCV.
Im amused at this conspiracy theory that Marquez is more interested in helping VR than Jlo. Even to the point he disengaged from the lead to fall back in an attempt to carry VR on his back forward. Funny, but Talpa, who just came up with this theory (latched on by Migs, who doesn't believe in conspiracy) had previously said Lorenzo would be helped by his Spanish compatriots to beat the Italian.
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Ah yes, thats exactly what Marquez was thinking at Phillip Island.
Ok, cool, im now in the lead, easy win...wait wait, so if I can get Rossi up here with me this will totally .... with Lorenzo, may more than me just beating him...because when Rossi retires Lorenz will totally remember this race and it will destroy his confidence next year.
Got it.
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