MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

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Frederique said:
Rossi had top speed only because of the late breaking. You can easily see how it was easier for the Ducati to catch Rossi than Lorenzo.
Click to expand...



Now you are starting to draw a long straw and looking more like a troll.

Top speed is not measured when later braking as it is measured well short of the braking zone at all tracks for that very reason. At PI it is measured around the end of the wall to the top of the hill just past the tower, well before the turn 1 braking zone

And of course it was easier for the Ducati to catch Rossi, he was generally some 100 - 300 metres closer than was Lorenzo who spent a lot of time further up the track
 
Gaz said:
From - fact - definition of fact in English from the Oxford dictionary

1. A thing that is known or proved to be true:
the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas
[MASS NOUN]: a body of fact
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
1.1 (facts) Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article:
even the most inventive journalism peters out without facts, and in this case there were no facts


Now, which definition of fact are you using as it surely cannot be point 1 and if point 1.1 thence you are using 'facts' loosely to derive an opinion.

There are no facts that Yamaha are favouring Lorenzo as you assert, and yet there is much andectdotal evidence that would suggest that if anything, favouritism would be afforded to Valentino as he is more attractive to the marketplace and thus more valuable to Yamaha.
Click to expand...
Lorenzo had always a perfect relationship with yamaha, he started his motoGP career with them (and they prepared him to replace Rossi), also he never left the team. But again, I'm not saying they are favouriting him, but he's the favourite one. Big difference.
 
Gaz said:
Now you are starting to draw a long straw and looking more like a troll.

Top speed is not measured when later braking as it is measured well short of the braking zone at all tracks for that very reason. At PI it is measured around the end of the wall to the top of the hill just past the tower, well before the turn 1 braking zone

And of course it was easier for the Ducati to catch Rossi, he was generally some 100 - 300 metres closer than was Lorenzo who spent a lot of time further up the track
Click to expand...
100m or 300m doesn't matter, it is about how many meters he recover if you prefere. Also at the first laps of the race they were close, and Lorenzo resists much better on the straight line than Rossi. But hey, I guess I'm trolling and didn't even watch the GP maybe.
 
Frederique said:
Lorenzo had always a perfect relationship with yamaha, he started his motoGP career with them (and they prepared him to replace Rossi), also he never left the team. But again, I'm not saying they are favouriting him, but he's the favourite one. Big difference.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify here as well.

You are not saying they are favouring him but that he is their favourite. Do I understand that correctly?


Frederique said:
100m or 300m doesn't matter, it is about how many meters he recover if you prefere. Also at the first laps of the race they were close, and Lorenzo resists much better on the straight line than Rossi. But hey, I guess I'm trolling and didn't even watch the GP maybe.
Click to expand...

It does make a massive difference.

With JL being so far in front they generally were not on the same footage from an angle that allowed clear cut viewing to determine, but given that the MotoGP statistics prove for a fact that VR's top speed on 13 laps was faster than JL's top speed altogether, it sure doesn't help you assertion that JL's bike was faster.

The above point regarding VR's bike having a top speed on 13 laps that was faster than JL's outright top speed is a fact, not an opinion.

The reason they were closer at the start was just that, a race start and the distance lost was not lost due to top speed but rather due to VR having to fight with a series of other riders before he could get clear air and then his rhythym. By this time Lorenzo had taken Marquez at the Hayshed and was doing a merry dance in front (1.4 seconds I believe it was)

None of the gap was down to Lorenzo's top speed at all but was does to VR qualifying in 7th and having the standard battles to get to the lad pack where more battles occurred.

FWIW. A review of the lap by lap analysis also shows that Lorenzo recorded a higher top speed than Rossi on 4 of the 28 laps during the race.
 
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Frederique said:
This is the first GP this season where I noticed a big outright speed difference between Lorenzo and VR. I know the fact that Yamaha is pushing for Lorenzo is not the reason for that, but man, it's hard to explain, especially at this stage of the season.
Click to expand...

nope.

There is no constant lap difference between them. As a fanboy myself, I might say IF Vale had clear track ahead, he could catch Jorge. Silly to talk about IF's, but at this level this is a difference by a very small margin.
Also Jorge's top speed was the 18-th (7-th from dead last) at 332km/h while Vale was the 9-th with 337km/h

LAP Jorge Vale Diff
1 1'35.965 1'36.819 -0,854
2 1'30.240 1'29.868 0,372
3 1'29.908 1'30.219 -0,311
4 1'29.885 1'29.655 0,230
5 1'29.711 1'29.799 -0,088
6 1'29.968 1'30.559 -0,591
7 1'29.738 1'30.393 -0,655
8 1'29.835 1'29.369 0,466
9 1'29.921 1'29.518 0,403
10 1'29.928 1'29.841 0,087
11 1'29.891 1'29.690 0,201
12 1'29.797 1'30.440 -0,643
13 1'29.783 1'30.030 -0,247
14 1'29.829 1'29.746 0,083
15 1'29.763 1'29.633 0,130
16 1'29.921 1'30.016 -0,095
17 1'30.096 1'30.025 0,071
18 1'30.309 1'30.029 0,280
19 1'29.903 1'29.550 0,353
20 1'29.952 1'29.729 0,223
21 1'29.819 1'29.668 0,151
22 1'29.911 1'30.127 -0,216
23 1'29.835 1'30.001 -0,166
24 1'29.995 1'29.894 0,101
25 1'29.908 1'30.238 -0,330
26 1'29.980 1'29.862 0,118
27 1'30.307 1'30.189 0,118

Top speed:
LAP Jorge Vale Speed dif
1 235,7 230,3 -5,4
2 326,9 336,2 9,3
3 321,0 315,7 -5,3
4 328,1 332,5 4,4
5 328,7 332,8 4,1
6 328,4 329,0 0,6
7 328,2 323,6 -4,6
8 330,1 335,9 5,8
9 328,9 333,2 4,3
10 327,5 336,5 9,0
11 328,1 332,7 4,6
12 327,3 332,0 4,7
13 330,2 329,4 -0,8
14 328,8 327,5 -1,3
15 328,1 331,6 3,5
16 327,9 328,1 0,2
17 326,6 328,9 2,3
18 327,5 332,9 5,4
19 331,4 332,0 0,6
20 332,0 334,5 2,5
21 328,5 336,4 7,9
22 329,1 330,2 1,1
23 329,0 335,6 6,6
24 328,7 329,7 1,0
25 327,9 336,5 8,6
26 329,0 329,8 0,8
27 328,5 337,0 8,5
 

Attachments

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Frederique said:
I'm asking questions. I'm not saying that VR is te victim of Yamaha, but Lorenzo is the Yamaha boy, he's their favourite racer and their chosen one, it's a fact. That being said, I don't think they are trying to give an advantage, it's just hard for me to explain than sudden big difference in the outright speed between the two.
Click to expand...

Just think of Yamaha:
Constructor championship = done
Teams championship= done
Best satellite team = done
Best satellite rider = done
ONLY their 2 riders battling for championship = done
At this point it is time to open some champagne sit back and relax.
Any intervention from them into the championship would be plain stupid.
 
Found elsewhere ......... not mine but does describe it a bit
 

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Jorge just needed another tooth on the rear sprocket.
Should sack his engineer.
 
Paszti said:
nope.

There is no constant lap difference between them. As a fanboy myself, I might say IF Vale had clear track ahead, he could catch Jorge. Silly to talk about IF's, but at this level this is a difference by a very small margin.
Also Jorge's top speed was the 18-th (7-th from dead last) at 332km/h while Vale was the 9-th with 337km/h

LAP Jorge Vale Diff
1 1'35.965 1'36.819 -0,854
2 1'30.240 1'29.868 0,372
3 1'29.908 1'30.219 -0,311
4 1'29.885 1'29.655 0,230
5 1'29.711 1'29.799 -0,088
6 1'29.968 1'30.559 -0,591
7 1'29.738 1'30.393 -0,655
8 1'29.835 1'29.369 0,466
9 1'29.921 1'29.518 0,403
10 1'29.928 1'29.841 0,087
11 1'29.891 1'29.690 0,201
12 1'29.797 1'30.440 -0,643
13 1'29.783 1'30.030 -0,247
14 1'29.829 1'29.746 0,083
15 1'29.763 1'29.633 0,130
16 1'29.921 1'30.016 -0,095
17 1'30.096 1'30.025 0,071
18 1'30.309 1'30.029 0,280
19 1'29.903 1'29.550 0,353
20 1'29.952 1'29.729 0,223
21 1'29.819 1'29.668 0,151
22 1'29.911 1'30.127 -0,216
23 1'29.835 1'30.001 -0,166
24 1'29.995 1'29.894 0,101
25 1'29.908 1'30.238 -0,330
26 1'29.980 1'29.862 0,118
27 1'30.307 1'30.189 0,118

Top speed:
LAP Jorge Vale Speed dif
1 235,7 230,3 -5,4
2 326,9 336,2 9,3
3 321,0 315,7 -5,3
4 328,1 332,5 4,4
5 328,7 332,8 4,1
6 328,4 329,0 0,6
7 328,2 323,6 -4,6
8 330,1 335,9 5,8
9 328,9 333,2 4,3
10 327,5 336,5 9,0
11 328,1 332,7 4,6
12 327,3 332,0 4,7
13 330,2 329,4 -0,8
14 328,8 327,5 -1,3
15 328,1 331,6 3,5
16 327,9 328,1 0,2
17 326,6 328,9 2,3
18 327,5 332,9 5,4
19 331,4 332,0 0,6
20 332,0 334,5 2,5
21 328,5 336,4 7,9
22 329,1 330,2 1,1
23 329,0 335,6 6,6
24 328,7 329,7 1,0
25 327,9 336,5 8,6
26 329,0 329,8 0,8
27 328,5 337,0 8,5
Click to expand...

QED.
 
A few GIFs of the passes

Not mine but found around the places - enjoy

Lorenzo on Marquez at the Hayshed with 7 laps left - motogp - Jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion.

Last lap, MG. Marquez takes Lorenzo whilst Rossi takes Ianonne who retakes Rossi - motogp - Jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion.

And the one that most are talking of. Rossi takes Marquez at Honda only for Ianonne to take Marquez and Rossi on the way out, with a nice follow up at Honda - motogp - Jiffier gifs through HTML5 Video Conversion.
 
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JPSLotus said:
Correct me if I am wrong, anyone please, but given all of the talk about the inherent instability of the RCV for most of this season, do unstable motorcycles put on that kind of performance? Especially in moments where predictability is needed? You do not make that kind of a last lap push unless you know exactly how the machine is going to respond since an unpredictable response has the potential to be a race-ender.

Anyone want to try and spin that ........ again?
Click to expand...

Me! Please me!!! C'mon... you think Honda R&D people haven't burned the midnight oil and spent a fortune to get all the kinks out of the RCV over the course of the season. And yet, Pedrosa was way back.

And of course that MM is a sick-.... talented kid doesn't hurt. It's not the same bike it was at the beginning of the year. You know Honda's not happy at Yamaha's success this year. We've seen this dynamic before where it takes Honda most of the season to undo all the over-engineering errors created during the off season.
 
I'm guessing everyone knew this would be the race of the year. Seems useless to grasp for superlatives. Race of the decade - at the very least. Haven't seen that many passes up at the front since the 500cc days. Sorry for the cliche - but a total emotional roller-coaster. Iannone! If he can repeat this kind of performance a few more times - he's headed for "Alien" status. And Vinales - totally brilliant. Hate to dump on poor old Dani - but that seat really should go to Iannone, that way folks can't chalk up his victories to the extra considerations given to Ducati. Marquez back on form - so one might fear his going back (next year) to the way it was in the previous two seasons - but not if Iannone has a good ride. Clearly he has no worries about scrapping it out with MM, as they are already so familiar. And lastly (for now) Rossi despite whatever was keeping him from that little bit extra he'd have needed to get on the podium, was ....... great. Not just his confidence, or his physical strength, but his mental stamina at his age was brilliant to watch. And ....... Crutchlow didn't crash. :p Gonna catch my breath, and watch it again.
 
Great Race...

MM seemed signalling to Rossi they should work together to get up to JLo....however, Iannone didnt see the signal and interfered the very next corner.....in the end it looked like Rossi thanked MM for beating JLo....perhaps MM has decide JLo shouldnt win the title (over himself), and will work over the last few races to help Rossi....

JLo was the biggest loser of the day....he needs to win everyone of the last races and get as many places between himself and Rossi as possible.....today he couldnt do his usual disappearing act, and he got beat on the last lap even when he had a big gap from MM...Since Aragon (Jlo's last win) JLo has only managed to 2 points on Rossi....and we go back to Silverstone (Rossi's last win) JLo has actually only managed to gain 1 point on Rossi....this is not a pace that will JLo the title...

Iannone, Man of the match (as has been said).....that head butt of the seagull was hysterical and scary.....Awesome performance and speed, clearly he is the future for Ducati.....I just want to see him do as well as the other factories in 2016....and win in Sepang this year.... :)

Rossi was let off the hook today cause it could have been much worse......if only he had qualified higher up, he might have been able to do a bit more sooner.....oh well...let see if Sepang (the scene of so many of this title wins) can get him one or three steps closer the title....

What happened to Dovi?
What happened to Hayden's Honda it just seemed to stop?
 
MigsAngel said:
Great Race...

MM seemed signalling to Rossi they should work together to get up to JLo....however, Iannone didnt see the signal and interfered the very next corner.....in the end it looked like Rossi thanked MM for beating JLo....perhaps MM has decide JLo shouldnt win the title (over himself), and will work over the last few races to help Rossi....

JLo was the biggest loser of the day....he needs to win everyone of the last races and get as many places between himself and Rossi as possible.....today he couldnt do his usual disappearing act, and he got beat on the last lap even when he had a big gap from MM...Since Aragon (Jlo's last win) JLo has only managed to 2 points on Rossi....and we go back to Silverstone (Rossi's last win) JLo has actually only managed to gain 1 point on Rossi....this is not a pace that will JLo the title...

Iannone, Man of the match (as has been said).....that head butt of the seagull was hysterical and scary.....Awesome performance and speed, clearly he is the future for Ducati.....I just want to see him do as well as the other factories in 2016....and win in Sepang this year.... :)

Rossi was let off the hook today cause it could have been much worse......if only he had qualified higher up, he might have been able to do a bit more sooner.....oh well...let see if Sepang (the scene of so many of this title wins) can get him one or three steps closer the title....

What happened to Dovi?
What happened to Hayden's Honda it just seemed to stop?
Click to expand...

I reckon everyone was expecting chaos going into turn one - but for sure thought it would be MM holding up JL to give Rossi a chance to make up for his poor quali. Knew Iannone would be a factor there - but no clue that he would be so in-the-mix till the bloody end. It's never been a big secret that he had big potential, but so many guys seem that way in early days and then fade. Iannone seems to be going from strength to strength. It was like watching him peel off the last layer of the onion. Just phenomenal.

And the seagull thing.... just shows the incredible ability of these guys to shake off the unexpected and quickly recover. I got hit by a seagull back in '84 riding up 9W upstate NY and was only going about 40 MPH at most. ....... thing slammed into my bicep, went into a tank slapper and had to go have a few beers before getting back on the bike. Those things have a lot of mass and it's like being hit by 15 lbs of wet sand.
 
Great race for sure, that last lap performance from Marquez is possibly the best I've ever seen.
 

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