2024 MotoGP Round 7: Gran Premio d'Italia Brembo - Mugello

mylexicon said:

It’s nice to see special liveries, but the Azure didn’t come through. Looked like a French bike up close and almost looked like a Gresini when watching the race on my phone. They could have done better with a bit of effort.

The racing this weekend was okay. I was hoping for more slipstreaming down the straights, but the riders were struggling to stay close enough at the start of the straight. Vinales and the Aprilia look incredible carrying corner speed, but the ride height device allows most of the top riders to thwart his attacks. Plus, Mav looked terrible in and out of Bucine. That hurt him this weekend. He’s slipped from 5th in the championship. Aprilia are looking flat as we enter the dog days of summer.

The only bright spot in an otherwise processional grand prix was Enea’s late charge. He still has it, and watching him overtake Marquez and Martin at the last minute was good sport. It’s too bad for him that he can’t use the tires more consistently over race distance. He might win more regularly.

Championship race is back in the critical stage after Martin’s mishap on Saturday. Pecco is building a streak as he often does around this time of year. If not for the inexplicable sprint crash at Catalunya, he’d be looking at 4 in a row. Game on. Martin will need to weather this storm. When factory Ducati get everything right, Pecco will not be beaten. This could be difficult for Jorge to accept, but he did a good job of taking points after Pecco tried to lure him in on the last laps. Not sure if he could have beaten Enea or if he got caught sleeping.

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MichaelBolton said:

Are we gonna have this exact conversation every race?

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MdubSTYLIE said:

I'm good. You never proved me wrong so I'll call it a win. Like I said. I have no reason to continue with you as you are not debating anything or disproving anything. You are just trying to tell me the rules of debating. You lost the argument at the start. GP24 is better. Period. Thanks for playing come back soon. Or don't I could careless. You contribute nothing to the forum.

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Keshav said:

I try not to. You know what they say: Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas.

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dogfight said:

Good points, but not the backup for ALL of the areas you listed: acceleration, aero, breaking, and cornering.

The article is a pre-Sepang test article. Everything in the article at that point in time is supposed to be, not fact.

In the post, you just have: "performance and handling.". Performance does not entirely means acceleration because rear grip is very important in acceleration especially at high leaning angle, but horse power can be seen on dyno, so I am quite OK with this while the bike is upright. But dont forget that the 24 has severe chatter in the first races which hampers bike acceleration out of the corner. Now it seems chatter goes away. so i am OK. Handling? Seams OK.

Aero?? NEW aero does not necessarily mean better. Why are you confident that NEW aero will be better? Have you been following F1 and see new 2024 Mercedes aero?

Where is the breaking, cornering?

Your burden of proof still exists.

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gui22a said:

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mylexicon said:

Whether the GP24 is literally better in all facets than the GP23 is trivial. The GP24 is setting one lap records and race distance records consistently enough to declare that it is a superior machine.

Marc is the closest of the GP23 riders, and he thinks the GP24 has an edge out of the corners, which appears to reconcile with the quote Mdub provided. The GP24 has a better engine, and probably a slightly revised chassis. Based upon Marc’s statements, it seems the GP24 might finish the apex a bit tighter and allow earlier application of the throttle. Maybe Marc and his crew were trying to compensate with some ride height setting that caused the puffs of smoke from the rear tire.

We will never know exactly how Ducati have improved the GP24, but claims that Pecco and Martin are the difference-makers are disingenuous. Is it likely that Pecco and Martin are both setting records this season because they’ve honed their skill sets during the off-season? Is it more likely that while Pecco and Martin have worked with their crews to continue evolving the setup of the bikes that the GP24 is a major contributing factor to the pace this year compared to last year?

The burden of proof is on the people who claim that Pecco and Martin have trained their way to .5 second improvements in qualifying and 10 seconds shorter race times. It’s not impossible, but it is an outlandish claim. Most people are inclined to believe that Marc posses adequate talent to match or surpass the championship leaders on equal equipment, considering how much faster both riders are in the GP24.

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Fair enough gui22a. But if we go by results of just the two who went from the gp23 to the gp24 leaving out Enea and the two riders going from the 22 to 23 this doesn't add up. Pecco and Martin are taking over where they left off if not having better seasons. While Bezz and Digi or not. Bezz was leading points last year early. This year he is struggling. Digi was winning races the end of last year. This year his is improving but still not on the pace of the gp24.

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mylexicon said:

We will never know exactly how Ducati have improved the GP24, but claims that Pecco and Martin are the difference-makers are disingenuous.

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dogfight said:

Read my posts. I am confident that the GP24 is better from race 6 on ward, because Montmelo and Sepang always tell you trust. However Sepang test is very early in the year, so race 6 Montmelo is always a good place to make conclusion, Before that it is hard to says, depends on the track layout, new things will not work togethers ....etc .need time to find solution and fix issues. Now we are discussing which area is better.

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gui22a said:

Both Bezz and Digia were hoping to sign a new contract last year. We know this can lead to some "magical" performances out of the blue. Do you remember Digia won last round in 2023? At that moment he didn't know if or where he would race the next year. But if you take the 1st part of the season (or more than that), he was on the GP22 though was totally crap. As for Bezzechi, he has no excuses. He's riding a bike that is current the world champion and all its 4 riders who rode it last year won at least one race.

So the GP24 is indeed a better material, but how much better? 0.5s? 0.4s? 0.3? no way. 0.2s? maybe on some sectors? 0.1s overrall? it might be. So where does the MM supposedly superior riding skills enter on this equation? Wasn't MM half a second faster than anyone else in the field? 0.4? 0.3? 0.2? I want you to point out to me how much of that gap is MM closing and how much is the GP24 opening.

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gui22a said:

Even though I feel like an old dog for having dengue fever right now, I confess I have a good one with this discussions.

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Bern1 said:

I’m pretty sure as well that the GP24 is a better machine than the 23. How much better? It actually doesn’t matter. It does stand to reason that it is, as it is the newest bike and latest iteration of Gigi and his team’s creation.

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mtf20 said:

I think chronos talk for that. As I already said before, GP24 is between 0.3 and 0.5s a lap faster than GP23. All Q2 session can prove it.

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