Sachsenring MotoGP Race (Spoilers)

Keshav · Jul 17, 2011

Jumkie said:
One good ride and we should give him keys to kingdom? I say bring up the Bradl.

I think he's been impressive all season, and moreover, I thought he was terrific when he was in F2. Been a big fan for a few years now.

hawkdriver · Jul 17, 2011

Keshav said:
Who here thinks Bautista should be taking Aoyama or Edwards seat next year?

I'd like to see him stay on the gixer and keep on getting up the order. I've got my fingers crossed that this race was a sign of things to come if we can keep nice weather so everyone can get their bikes sorted during practice. I'm not a big fan of any of the current front runners but they put on a hell of a good show this weekend!

With laguna coming up we might be able to see Ben join the fight up front and Nicky might be able to hold on for a better result.

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2011

Jumkie said:
I'm pretty sure Ganz was fishing and trolling and your biting.

Stoner was smart, road for points. he got beat fair and square, no shame in that.

Jumkie Jumkie Jumkie

You must be such a touchy bugger

Its just a bopper throwing a "tanty" at Stoner again

I believe we may have had that happen once or twice before in the Stoner era ( 2006 to now )

Stoner just rode a sensible race Sachsenring has never been his track unless it rains

Anyway, that ain't fishing!!!

This is fishing:

gumby1 said:
Yeah I can give you the scoop, vale finished the race in 46th position, and was immediately given support from team red for a job well done, and commented in an interview to say that "it was a great race" his shoulder is still sore from an old injury he incurred when he was 7 years old and "coming 46th was like a victory" ;-)

and BAM!!!

Talpa said:
You must be the Penguin guys even more ........ cousin.........

Well, well, finally what a great race! I'm genuinely happy for Dani, what effort after what he's been through. Jorge rode amazingly well, the revised 2010 chassis has done the trick and his performances are now far removed from the likes of what we saw at Le mans.......Stoner is chewing up his rubber and over-riding the bike and somehow being beaten by his team-mates regularly....how is this possible?? Baz and Mental must have the answers

All those glorious power-slides that Baz likes to wet himself over aren't necessarily the quickest way around a racetrack, as Mighty Mick once tried to tell Gaz McCoy. Doest this mean now that Dani and Dovi could also get on the Ducati and whip the field as well? Must be........

Sic is at least staying on, and Ben seems to be hot and cold, pardon the pun on the latter......

Ducati, well, ......... yet again, both of the factory efforts looked uncomfortable and Alvaro showed them the way in a great performance. What is quite incredible is that the Rossi is consistently around 25-30 seconds behind every race at different circuits. If they can recover this position it will be one of the most remarkable efforts in Motogp ever, I actually don't believe that it is possible though without a complete revision of Engine and a new Trellis frame. The company must be re-considering its position at present, as must Rossi be, for it certainly isn't good PR to see lots of Ducati's in the field all at the back of the field. From day one at the Valencia Test last year Rossi has stated that the bike doesn't turn, this has been the issue, someone at Ducati does not want to give up on their seriously flawed chassis design which has now proved consistently uncompetative for Three of the top riders in the world...........time for some heads to roll.

on second thoughts Talpa is more like picking up a snag in a bundle of sticks

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2011

hawkdriver said:
I'd like to see him stay on the gixer and keep on getting up the order. I've got my fingers crossed that this race was a sign of things to come if we can keep nice weather so everyone can get their bikes sorted during practice. I'm not a big fan of any of the current front runners but they put on a hell of a good show this weekend!

With laguna coming up we might be able to see Ben join the fight up front and Nicky might be able to hold on for a better result.

Really looking forward to Laguna, I do see it as Stoners track( his collective result there is amazing ) but then again after today who knows who may bring it to him and yeah Spies will be super motivated ......... it will be the one to back up Assen for him.

I'd also like to proffer that this is also the one for Rossi to stop sulking and pull his finger out and give it a go because the Duc. has been a tool for the "untouchable" at Laguna.

Mackie · Jul 17, 2011

BarryMachine said:
Jumkie Jumkie Jumkie

You must be such a touchy bugger

Its just a bopper throwing a "tanty" at Stoner again

I believe we may have had that happen once or twice before in the Stoner era ( 2006 to now )

Stoner just rode a sensible race Sachsenring has never been his track unless it rains

Anyway, that ain't fishing!!!

This is fishing:

and BAM!!!

on second thoughts Talpa is more like picking up a snag in a bundle of sticks

You seem to like smilies quite a lot. Is it that you are overly expressive or just lacking the words?

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2011

Mackie said:
You seem to like smilies quite a lot. Is it that you are overly expressive or just lacking the words?

I love smiles ........ haven't you heard

....... are you new?

matter of fact aren't you a rossi fan?

Maybe you aught to go do your crying somewhere else

You are a sad being if you let a few emoticons get to you

povol · Jul 17, 2011

Keshav said:
Now that Simoncelli has actually completed a race without crashing or taking anyone out - is he showing his true potential?

And supposing he his - how long before he goes on the Aktins Diet and starts to look as skeletal as Rossi.

In a sense the smaller riders have a secondary advantage as a side benefit of their smaller size - that being,

having the amount of muscle mass appropriate to their frame - and I would expect, a corresponding degree of stamina,

which a lot of folks speculate are missing in Seniores Spies and Hayden.

If there is one thing Spies does not lack, is stamina. He is probably the most fit rider in the paddock. When you do competitive cycling, which by all reports he is prettyy damn good at, you build super human stamina. Bens problem is the beggining of races, not the end. Take today for example, he was not in the picture and the announcers were talking about his lonely race, then 3 -4 laps later, he is right on the back wheel on Sic and Dovi. He has shown at Assen what he is capable of if he gets a good first few laps. With these tires, you have to throw caution to the wind in the first few laps if your going to compete with the guys who do. Ben is consistently one of the fastest riders in the last third of a race, thats not going to get it done here. In AMA he carved out a reputation of being a calculated racer and could bide his time to go. You just cant do that against these guys. Very good race, almost happy for Dani. Lorenzo showed that he is a valid champion and championship contender. Stoner made monumental error on last turn, he was way to caught up in protecting the inside and almost parked it in the corner. It wasnt that long ago that some of us,including me, were saying they thought Batista was as good or better than Sic. It would be nice to see him on a competitive machine. Next week we have Laguna, Stoner, Lorenzo and Perdo have won there, it should be good.

Mental Anarchist · Jul 17, 2011

Beef Supreme said:
The difference is that Lorenzo passed Stoner before the apex because Stoner did NOT take a tight line. In 2003, Gibernau passed Rossi AFTER the apex because Rossi tried too hard to close the door and ended up having to go wide on the exit and not being able to get on the gas hard enough up the hill.

Today was more like what Stoner did to Rossi last year to take 3rd.

I don't think Stoner did anything particularly wrong in that last corner, Lorenzo just wasn't going to be denied.

I think you will find that Stoner went tight into turn 12 which meant he lost momentum and ran wide on the exist which gave Lorenzo a wide open door into the final corner. Stoner obviously wasn't to know that Lorenzo made a slight mistake out of 11 which meant he couldn't challenge into 12 so Stoner didn't need to hold such a tight line. All the same it was a class ride by Lorenzo and good on him.

Mackie · Jul 17, 2011

BarryMachine said:
I love smiles ........ haven't you heard

....... are you new?

matter of fact aren't you a rossi fan?

Maybe you aught to go do your crying somewhere else

You are a sad being if you let a few emoticons get to you

thank you for answering, and validating my theory.

beefsupreme · Jul 17, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
I think you will find that Stoner went tight into turn 12 which meant he lost momentum and ran wide on the exist which gave Lorenzo a wide open door into the final corner. Stoner obviously wasn't to know that Lorenzo made a slight mistake out of 11 which meant he couldn't challenge into 12 so Stoner didn't need to hold such a tight line. All the same it was a class ride by Lorenzo and good on him.

The question is whether the "tight line" was into the last corner, or the penultimate corner. I'm assuming the last corner was being spoken about, esp. in comparison to the 2003 Rossi/Gibernau pass.

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2011

Mackie said:
thank you for answering, and validating my theory.

Thats fine ..... though I would suggest you add a few emoticons to your posts to brighten them up, they are rather

text after text after text monotone

...... and could use a little spice ....... I was going to comment on your tyre post but thought I'd correct you here since you are having difficulties here with it. I got the feeling that you are standing on the edge of a tall building outside of the railing typing that tyre post ..... ?

I just use emoticons as I go and don't really care about them but hey if they are causing any psychological damage ( I know even little things can set some folk off

) to you just let me know and I'll accommodate you

I also love salt on my food ..... is that ok too?

Keshav · Jul 17, 2011

povol said:
If there is one thing Spies does not lack, is stamina. He is probably the most fit rider in the paddock. When you do competitive cycling, which by all reports he is prettyy damn good at, you build super human stamina. Bens problem is the beggining of races, not the end. Take today for example, he was not in the picture and the announcers were talking about his lonely race, then 3 -4 laps later, he is right on the back wheel on Sic and Dovi. He has shown at Assen what he is capable of if he gets a good first few laps. With these tires, you have to throw caution to the wind in the first few laps if your going to compete with the guys who do. Ben is consistently one of the fastest riders in the last third of a race, thats not going to get it done here. In AMA he carved out a reputation of being a calculated racer and could bide his time to go. You just cant do that against these guys. Very good race, almost happy for Dani. Lorenzo showed that he is a valid champion and championship contender. Stoner made monumental error on last turn, he was way to caught up in protecting the inside and almost parked it in the corner. It wasnt that long ago that some of us,including me, were saying they thought Batista was as good or better than Sic. It would be nice to see him on a competitive machine. Next week we have Laguna, Stoner, Lorenzo and Perdo have won there, it should be good.

I don't imagine any of these guys are staying up all night eating McDonalds on the couch and diddling their Gameboys between races.

They all do whatever is needed to keep fit. Still.. a serious loss of muscle mass, and not ingesting the amount of nutrients one's body naturally craves is known to be detrimental both physically and mentally. This is not a theory; it's well established medical fact.

Compared to all us (relative) couch potatoes - all the riders are superhumanly fit - but within their circle it's all relative and every miniscule advantage can and does make a difference. Can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt - but the gut says Spies and Hayden both are undernourished physically and mentally. I think they are both underperforming.

BarryMachine · Jul 17, 2011

Keshav said:
I don't imagine any of these guys are staying up all night eating McDonalds on the couch and diddling their Gameboys between races.

They all do whatever is needed to keep fit. Still.. a serious loss of muscle mass, and not ingesting the amount of nutrients one's body naturally craves is known to be detrimental both physically and mentally. This is not a theory; it's well established medical fact.

Compared to all us (relative) couch potatoes - all the riders are superhumanly fit - but within their circle it's all relative and every miniscule advantage can and does make a difference. Can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt - but the gut says Spies and Hayden both are undernourished physically and mentally. I think they are both underperforming.

I hate to say this but ........ you wouldn't be misinterpreting "muscle mass" as "body mass" would you? It is my considered opinion that many a person misinterprets "large body mass" with "muscle mass" to include several detrimental forms of body mass.

Surely all GP riders must have minimal surplus fat mass and indeed have a very efficient amount of muscle mass.

hawkdriver · Jul 17, 2011

Keshav said:
I don't imagine any of these guys are staying up all night eating McDonalds on the couch and diddling their Gameboys between races.

They all do whatever is needed to keep fit. Still.. a serious loss of muscle mass, and not ingesting the amount of nutrients one's body naturally craves is known to be detrimental both physically and mentally. This is not a theory; it's well established medical fact.

Compared to all us (relative) couch potatoes - all the riders are superhumanly fit - but within their circle it's all relative and every miniscule advantage can and does make a difference. Can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt - but the gut says Spies and Hayden both are undernourished physically and mentally. I think they are both underperforming.

I just want to point out that Nicky has been riding a POS bike, and it's possible that he would be fighting for top 5 on better equipment. Gotta defend my boy, I think he's better than both Dovi and Spies and he'd be beating them on a regular basis if they were on the same bikes.

Mr. Shupe · Jul 17, 2011

hawkdriver said:
I just want to point out that Nicky has been riding a POS bike, and it's possible that he would be fighting for top 5 on better equipment. Gotta defend my boy, I think he's better than both Dovi and Spies and he'd be beating them on a regular basis if they were on the same bikes.

I wouldn't say Nicky is better than either. Dovizioso out-shined Nicky while riding a satellite Honda. I actually consider Dovizioso a slightly better version of Nicky.

Spies? I think it's a little harder to tell here. Spies never had to face Nicky when the latter was on a factory Honda. Ben's WSBK season doesn't really help the argument either since Nicky has never raced there. However Spies did get a pole position on a satellite bike, at a track where he didn't have an extensive race history. I don't see how we can conclusively say Nicky is better than Spies.

hawkdriver · Jul 17, 2011

Mr. Shupe said:
I wouldn't say Nicky is better than either. Dovizioso out-shined Nicky while riding a satellite Honda. I actually consider Dovizioso a slightly better version of Nicky.

Spies? I think it's a little harder to tell here. Spies never had to face Nicky when the latter was on a factory Honda. Ben's WSBK season doesn't really help the argument either since Nicky has never raced there. However Spies did get a pole position on a satellite bike, at a track where he didn't have an extensive race history. I don't see how we can conclusively say Nicky is better than Spies.

You got me I'm biased towards Nicky, and when he was finishing in 4th behind Dovi when the Honda wasn't up to it's current level and Nicky was right with him while being on a bike that only Casey has come to terms with. With Ben it's more of just a feeling. I will say that Dovi is getting better and Ben will too with more experience.

I think Nicky and Dovi have some similarities as well but I think Nicky is better because I've seen him get a little nastier and edgier with riding but yeah Dovi has been impressing me this season.

mylexicon · Jul 18, 2011

Finally watched the race. I don't think the tires were going off. I think the riders took turns cranking up the wick, and the fuel computers intervened late in the race. According to Pedrosa, the fuel computer turns off TC to save fuel. Between Honda and Yamaha, I think the Yamaha has better tractability and that helped Lorenzo eek out a late move when Stoner's tight lines cost him a great deal of time.

Nice racing this weekend. Too bad we have to wait several months in between the good races.

Keshav · Jul 18, 2011

hawkdriver said:
I just want to point out that Nicky has been riding a POS bike, and it's possible that he would be fighting for top 5 on better equipment. Gotta defend my boy, I think he's better than both Dovi and Spies and he'd be beating them on a regular basis if they were on the same bikes.

I'm a card-carrying Haydenette. This is not an attack - therefore - no need to defend. Point is; they could be riding better were they better nourished and with more muscle and normal body fat.

Keshav · Jul 18, 2011

Mr. Shupe said:
I wouldn't say Nicky is better than either. Dovizioso out-shined Nicky while riding a satellite Honda. I actually consider Dovizioso a slightly better version of Nicky.

Spies? I think it's a little harder to tell here. Spies never had to face Nicky when the latter was on a factory Honda. Ben's WSBK season doesn't really help the argument either since Nicky has never raced there. However Spies did get a pole position on a satellite bike, at a track where he didn't have an extensive race history. I don't see how we can conclusively say Nicky is better than Spies.

Of course not - but when we're between races and bored out of our skulls - the numb-nuts around here are capable of taking this kind of speculation and turning into a 15 page pissing match.

Keshav · Jul 18, 2011

BarryMachine said:
I hate to say this but ........ you wouldn't be misinterpreting "muscle mass" as "body mass" would you? It is my considered opinion that many a person misinterprets "large body mass" with "muscle mass" to include several detrimental forms of body mass.

Surely all GP riders must have minimal surplus fat mass and indeed have a very efficient amount of muscle mass.

No confusion here. Loss of body weight entails more loss of fat than muscle - but certainly some muscle.

Body fat is important - it's where a lot of nutrients are stored, especially those that feed the brain.

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Sachsenring MotoGP Race (Spoilers)

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