Radio Tavullia: Rossi without Burgess in 2014

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
bluegreen
3675101384024485

How many full Factory RC211V's did Honda field in 2004 to combat Rossi and the M1?


 


5 I think?  ;)


 


Rossi really was that good, he's just getting old man :)


^^^^^


This 100%  He's simply not the rider he once was - I can't understand why the custard-clothed mouth-breathers can't work this one out for themselves :wallbash:
 
I don't get it.  


 


Let's say you have a a major shareholder for a company.  Your CEO, that made you a fortune 500 company, hasn't been able to maintain market share and the company is steadily losing revenue for the past four years.


 


What do you do?  I say we keep the CEO and let the ship sink.  Is that what we're all suggesting?


 


Burgess was right; it's a business.  Rossi is in the twilight of his career and is wanting to try something different.  What Burgess has said, which I find funny no one has mentioned, is, "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana;font-size:small;Valentino has always been up front, honest, and speaks what he wants and how he wants things."  Doesn't sound like someone whose character flaw is insincerity to me.
 
.... move...


I would have promoted JB to supreme team overlord Esquire, as an advisor only, able to come and go as he pleased, nice cush office,free beer and food..... then higher the bike programmer vulcan chief needed.


Maybe JB is too old-school of a tuner for these over computerized bikes. Maybe not.. at the end of the day it was a .... move..



OR!!! Rossi fired JB to get him to go home to concentrate on ill family..
 
HEISMAN
3675151384025119

I don't get it.  


 


Let's say you have a a major shareholder for a company.  Your CEO, that made you a fortune 500 company, hasn't been able to maintain market share and the company is steadily losing revenue for the past four years.


 


What do you do?  I say we keep the CEO and let the ship sink.  Is that what we're all suggesting?


 


Burgess was right; it's a business.  Rossi is in the twilight of his career and is wanting to try something different.  What Burgess has said, which I find funny no one has mentioned, is, "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana;font-size:small;Valentino has always been up front, honest, and speaks what he wants and how he wants things."  Doesn't sound like someone whose character flaw is insincerity to me.


What if the problem doesnt lie with the CEO, but with some overrated middle age clown in upper management that got so rich he quit doing his job.
 
xx CURVE xx
3675161384025244

.... move...


I would have promoted JB to supreme team overlord Esquire, as an advisor only, able to come and go as he pleased, nice cush office,free beer and food..... then higher the bike programmer vulcan chief needed.


Maybe JB is too old-school of a tuner for these over computerized bikes. Maybe not.. at the end of the day it was a .... move..



OR!!! Rossi fired JB to get him to go home to concentrate on ill family..


Good post. Funnily enough Lin Jarvis was saying that JB is part of their family at Yamaha too and this has really unsettled the dynamic this weekend and caused as great deal of unease. Nonetheless, decision made after the race at Motegi - at least Vale announced it now and didn't conceal it until close season which would have been a far easier thing to do.
 
Arrabbiata1
3675211384027616

Good post. Funnily enough Lin Jarvis was saying that JB is part of their family at Yamaha too and this has really unsettled the dynamic this weekend and caused as great deal of unease. Nonetheless, decision made after the race at Motegi - at least Vale announced it now and didn't conceal it until close season which would have been a far easier thing to do.


It was very interesting listening to Lin today, especially on the new fuel limit.
 
povol
3675171384026108

What if the problem doesnt lie with the CEO, but with some overrated middle age clown in upper management that got so rich he quit doing his job.


 


Fault Rossi for whatever you will, but I don't think you can pin quitting/no effort on him. He's trying, he's just old.
 
Bluegreen & Garbin, did u notice a distinct lap time performance advantage reported when the RC1000V used the softer CRT 'general-purpose' built Bridgestone tire? Now, imagine a rider having exclusive compound feedback provided for his 'specific-use' in races. That was the performance advantage VR enjoyed for years. (Its the same relationship that used to make Ducati competitive, now a POS, such is the extraordinary effect of specific tires). He was absolutely NOT that good but rather absolutely given an exclusive advantage over his rivals! Imagine in tomorrow's race Lorenzo got an extra special choice of tire that Marc could not get. Lorenzo wins the race. Then people cheer on Lorenzo saying he was just the better rider on the day. This happened for years! And its mind boggling how many spectators/ experts never thought this was an unfair situation. ...., its even accepted today as no big deal. Watch here how people will rationalize this post. In a sport where we NOW understand tires have more to do with the lap time than any other part of the package; there is no doubt VR got undeniably better tires than his rival. I for one discount any of VR's titles won when he had access to SNS. I know im in the minority. Anybody who thinks it would be ok for Lorenzo to ride with superior tires to Marc tomorrow and potentially decide a title and accept it as legit is something I dont understand. (Btw, I know peeps will respond saying others couldnt make SNS work, to which I have replied, thats because the SNS was not designed with them in mind).
 
.... the proddy racer. Unless it's a podium level bike, it's just another figleaf to the fact that the "premier" class is now a rules-based multi-tier competition. The 4 factory bike reg remains.
 
Jumkie
3675371384040607

Bluegreen & Garbin, did u notice a distinct lap time performance advantage reported when the RC1000V used the softer CRT 'general-purpose' built Bridgestone tire? Now, imagine a rider having exclusive compound feedback provided for his 'specific-use' in races. That was the performance advantage VR enjoyed for years. (Its the same relationship that used to make Ducati competitive, now a POS, such is the extraordinary effect of specific tires). He was absolutely NOT that good but rather absolutely given an exclusive advantage over his rivals! Imagine in tomorrow's race Lorenzo got an extra special choice of tire that Marc could not get. Lorenzo wins the race. Then people cheer on Lorenzo saying he was just the better rider on the day. This happened for years! And its mind boggling how many spectators/ experts never thought this was an unfair situation. ...., its even accepted today as no big deal. Watch here how people will rationalize this post. In a sport where we NOW understand tires have more to do with the lap time than any other part of the package; there is no doubt VR got undeniably better tires than his rival. I for one discount any of VR's titles won when he had access to SNS. I know im in the minority. Anybody who thinks it would be ok for Lorenzo to ride with superior tires to Marc tomorrow and potentially decide a title and accept it as legit is something I dont understand. (Btw, I know peeps will respond saying others couldnt make SNS work, to which I have replied, thats because the SNS was not designed with them in mind).


That's cherry picking facts. many riders had the use of "Saturday night specials", not just rossi. Fact is not many could make the most out of them and CHOSE not to use them. Plus these tyres were only available for european rounds and only for dry races or for races where track conditions didn't change much from quali to race day. On the grand scale they were an advantage on occasion. 
 
BarryMachine
3675451384041935

So ... When does uccio start.?


Monday testing lol.


 


I wonder what Uccio actually does, apart from gum shield, drinks bottle and baseball cap duties ?  You would think after all these years he would have trained to do something useful. Realistically he could have done a masters degree and PHD in the time he has been in the gp circus.
 
Didn't Uccio manage a moto3 team ?


 


I'm sure rossi thinks thats enough of an apprenticeship.


 


Well I'm sure Uccio has sway in the bedroom.
 
Mixing the Bovivet Granular into the preferred consistency...
 
chopperman
3675091384024085

Nah nah, you're trying to have your cake and eat it there. By saying Rossi will try harder you are covering your arse. If rossi improves you will say it had nothing to do with jb not being up to the job, but more to do with rossi now trying harder. If rossi ..... up it will be a big i toadaso moment for you. You aint going to get away with that bs now im back comps.

If Rossi dramatically improves it has to be seen as an inspired move.

If rossi continues with his current form then it should be seen as he laid the blame on jb..
I believe VR cruised around the 2nd year at Ducati. Given VRs delusional decision to throw his crew chief under the bus for his own shortcomings, confirms to me he gave up on Ducati thinking (like boppers, J4rn0 in particular) that the manufacturer wasnt trying to help him. So he quit on them (justified in his mind 'too'). That is to say 'he stopped trying harder'. So next year he will put in a greater effort. What do u find wrong with me saying as much, I dont understand your logic in saying this. VR said himself he is 'looking for new motivation'. That is, the motivation now is, in his mind, insufficient. According to VR he didnt find Burgess incompetent.


Rossi is not going to dramatically improve compa. He is on a machine that if he were better, he could beat Lorenzo Pedrosa & Marquez. (.... man, he should at least be beating Pedro). When Lorenzo can beat any factory RCV in a race, VR has no excuse for not doing the same. After all, even Lorenzo beat VR on a bike developed around Rossi. I dont believe Rossi was ever that much better than his rivals, and I've been saying this since I joined the forum. Since the end of 2009 everything ive ever asserted about his ability has repeatedly and consistently been vindicated. He took a win worthy bike in 2010 and never won on it. He developed it backward. He was elevated back onto a win worthy bike, and we've seen him struggle to stay ahead of Crutchlow and Bautista. This season should have been winless had it not been for Lorenzo's injury.


But as they say, it counts more when we put our money where are mouth is, so; let wager: 2 bottles of premium spirits no less than $100 and not to exceed $200, combined cost, for the following bet, I say VR will come 4th or worse next year, that is, no improvement from this year. Caveat, baring serious jury from any of the riders on win worthy bikes.
 
chopperman
3675441384041389

That's cherry picking facts. many riders had the use of "Saturday night specials", not just rossi. Fact is not many could make the most out of them and CHOSE not to use them. Plus these tyres were only available for european rounds and only for dry races or for races where track conditions didn't change much from quali to race day. On the grand scale they were an advantage on occasion. 


Only !! That was 3/4  of the races. Its not surprising other riders couldnt make them work since they were made exclusively to Rossi's riding style. Tire advantage and mediocre competition will make a  really good rider look like a god.
 
HEISMAN
3675201384027115

Isn't that ultimately the responsibility of the CEO?


To start with, in the Yamaha chain of hierachy, Burgess would not have been CEO. He would have been like a vice president who had to deal with CEO's frat boy son in law. If the .... hits the fan, the VP is odd man out
 
i thought SNS was when michelin would make tires for the specific rider giving them feedback? like if pedrosa gave them a certain feedback, Michelin would build his tires around it...etc etc etc.


 


of course, I may be wrong
 
HEISMAN
3675151384025119

I don't get it.  

 

Let's say you have a a major shareholder for a company.  Your CEO, that made you a fortune 500 company, hasn't been able to maintain market share and the company is steadily losing revenue for the past four years.

 

What do you do?  I say we keep the CEO and let the ship sink.  Is that what we're all suggesting?

 

Burgess was right; it's a business.  Rossi is in the twilight of his career and is wanting to try something different.  What Burgess has said, which I find funny no one has mentioned, is, "<span style="color:#000000;<span style="font-family:verdana;Valentino has always been up front, honest, and speaks what he wants and how he wants things.[/size]"  Doesn't sound like someone whose character flaw is insincerity to me.


In theory, a company doesn't have a finite window of operation; a motorcycle racer does. Of course you don't let the ship sink, that's why, technically, this is a legitimate move. However, one must factor in Rossi's age and the trajectory of his career, which suggests to me that he's done and this is little more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Jumkie
3675371384040607

Bluegreen & Garbin, did u notice a distinct lap time performance advantage reported when the RC1000V used the softer CRT 'general-purpose' built Bridgestone tire? Now, imagine a rider having exclusive compound feedback provided for his 'specific-use' in races. That was the performance advantage VR enjoyed for years. (Its the same relationship that used to make Ducati competitive, now a POS, such is the extraordinary effect of specific tires). He was absolutely NOT that good but rather absolutely given an exclusive advantage over his rivals! Imagine in tomorrow's race Lorenzo got an extra special choice of tire that Marc could not get. Lorenzo wins the race. Then people cheer on Lorenzo saying he was just the better rider on the day. This happened for years! And its mind boggling how many spectators/ experts never thought this was an unfair situation. ...., its even accepted today as no big deal. Watch here how people will rationalize this post. In a sport where we NOW understand tires have more to do with the lap time than any other part of the package; there is no doubt VR got undeniably better tires than his rival. I for one discount any of VR's titles won when he had access to SNS. I know im in the minority. Anybody who thinks it would be ok for Lorenzo to ride with superior tires to Marc tomorrow and potentially decide a title and accept it as legit is something I dont understand. (Btw, I know peeps will respond saying others couldnt make SNS work, to which I have replied, thats because the SNS was not designed with them in mind).


Rossi wasn't the only one with the Saturday Night Specials, and he wasn't the only one to make them work. (I forget what the reason was for Elias getting a set in Estoril 2006, but we all know how that ended. They were that good, but they weren't so exclusive as to account for the entirety of Rossi's success.) I see the height of Rossi's advantages in 2002 and 2003, because you know Honda wouldn't settle for anything less than the very best rubber Michelin made available. And that wouldn't change when Rossi left, which means that Nicky, Barros, Biaggi, and Pedrosa at the very minimum were getting the good stuff in those years - I'd be shocked if Gibs and later Melandri didn't get choice rubber, too. And my understanding is that there wasn't a single SNS-spec tire; I'm under the impression that Michelin had, at least, a Honda-spec SNS and a Yamaha-spec SNS, if not rider-specific offerings. I will say that it was awfully suspicious that Bridgestone's compound/construction changed once they acquiesced to Valentino's, putting it politely, lobbying for the Japanese rubber.


I look at the years Rossi won the lion's share of his titles - 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 - and frankly, I just don't see the depth of talent we're treated to today. I think history would suggest that neither Biaggi, Gibernau, nor Melandri had the mental toughness to mount a serious challenge, and by the time Nicky had become stable in the series - despite HRC's best efforts, cough, Evo, cough - the days of the big Superbikes were over and he was never a rider versatile enough to win on an 800.


For me, the saddest part of Rossi's career is that he was too late to be measured up against Doohan, Schwantz, and Rainey, and too early to match up against Lorenzo and Marquez for any length of time with all parties in their primes. Sure, there was Stoner, but at the very minimum, half of his career in the premier class was spent on/in machinery/teams incapable of winning a championship.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top