Jeremy Burgess - Life After Rossi

yamfan · Mar 16, 2017

povol said:
Agree, at that point in his career, he was not committed to the grind of getting in shape to win. Since making that commitment, he has become more competitive. With that being said, the fly aways at the end of the season seem to wear on him these days, then having his Waterloo track to end the championship season almost guarantees he will not win another title unless everything falls his way.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him campaign to get Valencia moved time wise or even removed from the calendar in favour of a more friendly track to him.
Would dorna agree though?

p4p1 · Mar 16, 2017

yamfan said:
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him campaign to get Valencia moved time wise or even removed from the calendar in favour of a more friendly track to him.
Would dorna agree though?

DORNA isn't moving or removing Valencia no matter how much Rossi may or may not want them to. They would've removed it already if they were open to it, it's not exactly a great circuit for bikes, there's definitely other tracks that could be better for the season decider if they wanted.

birdman · Mar 16, 2017

povol said:
Agree, at that point in his career, he was not committed to the grind of getting in shape to win. Since making that commitment, he has become more competitive. With that being said, the fly aways at the end of the season seem to wear on him these days, then having his Waterloo track to end the championship season almost guarantees he will not win another title unless everything falls his way.

He was reported to be tired and jet-lagged already at the recent PI test was it not? Missed a half day, not that it matters. He's simply "not even trying" at these tests, letting Vinales do all the work to find the bikes limit while Rossi just cruises around avoiding stress and the potential for injury. Also I'll bet when he suddenly finds the "magic set-up" its just Vinales settings. Its a smart play for the old man but it only works with a fast team-mate whos willing to do the work and push to find the bikes limit. On his own Rossi would be of little use evaluating the bikes potential.

Keshav · Mar 17, 2017

JKant said:
A. I never suggested that giving Burgess the boot put Rossi back in the mix.

I said Burgess losing faith in Rossi is what led them to part ways, something that is clearly indicated by him in his interview.

And this is after Rossi's first year back on the M1, where he finished in 4th place, 65 pts off Pedrosa in 3rd, with only one race win to show for it all.

Its understandable. Very few people could have foreseen his resurgence at his age or imagined that he'd be a serious title contender in 2017. To most people then he was akin to the Pedrosa of today except for his records. Including Burgess apparently.

A. Didn't mean to suggest you did. Just an aside.

Essentially - what I've tried to express in earlier posts is that I've not seen any interview or heard any speculation from known insiders - that Burgess ever undermined Rossi's confidence or gave less than his best efforts on Rossi's behalf - regardless of his beliefs regarding Rossi's commitment to doing whatever was required to being competitive. And given his years of service to Rossi's career - Rossi really owed it to Burgess to make the break in a way that reflected a degree of gratitude and respect. As I recall - Rossi did the whole thing in an abrupt and classless fashion.

JPSLotus · Mar 17, 2017

Keshav said:
A. Didn't mean to suggest you did. Just an aside.

Essentially - what I've tried to express in earlier posts is that I've not seen any interview or heard any speculation from known insiders - that Burgess ever undermined Rossi's confidence or gave less than his best efforts on Rossi's behalf - regardless of his beliefs regarding Rossi's commitment to doing whatever was required to being competitive. And given his years of service to Rossi's career - Rossi really owed it to Burgess to make the break in a way that reflected a degree of gratitude and respect. As I recall - Rossi did the whole thing in an abrupt and classless fashion.

That keeps with Rossi's MO. Based on how he has handled many situations over the course of his career, lack of tact in how best to handle splits and the like has been the underlying theme. Not that others are perfect either by any means, but Rossi seems to have made it a habit to handle things in a less than ideal fashion.

michaelm · Mar 17, 2017

Keshav said:
A. Didn't mean to suggest you did. Just an aside.

Essentially - what I've tried to express in earlier posts is that I've not seen any interview or heard any speculation from known insiders - that Burgess ever undermined Rossi's confidence or gave less than his best efforts on Rossi's behalf - regardless of his beliefs regarding Rossi's commitment to doing whatever was required to being competitive. And given his years of service to Rossi's career - Rossi really owed it to Burgess to make the break in a way that reflected a degree of gratitude and respect. As I recall - Rossi did the whole thing in an abrupt and classless fashion.

To be fair JB was fairly strongly implying in various interviews that Rossi was in his opinion past it, perhaps not what Rossi was looking for at the time.

Burgess has always rated him ahead of even Doohan overall though, and continued to do so, went with him after entreaties from Rossi to both Yamaha and Ducati, on the first occasion despite having been a career Honda man, and on the second occasion despite very definite severe misgivings which I personally heard him express in regard to Ducati. He and Valentino also reputedly had a strong friendship as well, which you never hear of these days, although again to be fair Burgess seems to have withdrawn himself fairly totally from the whole GP scene on his retirement.

JPSLotus · Mar 17, 2017

michaelm said:
To be fair JB was fairly strongly implying in various interviews that Rossi was in his opinion past it, perhaps not what Rossi was looking for at the time.

Burgess has always rated him ahead of even Doohan overall though, and continued to do so, went with him after entreaties from Rossi to both Yamaha and Ducati, on the first occasion despite having been a career Honda man, and on the second occasion despite very definite severe misgivings which I personally heard him express in regard to Ducati. He and Valentino also reputedly had a strong friendship as well, which you never hear of these days, although again to be fair Burgess seems to have withdrawn himself fairly totally from the whole GP scene on his retirement.

Do you think Rossi was worthy of being rated ahead of Doohan?

michaelm · Mar 17, 2017

JPSLotus said:
Do you think Rossi was worthy of being rated ahead of Doohan?

I did at one time, after the 7th premier class title, and I speak as someone who formerly posted on another forum as doohanfan. I think it is hard to say who was best as a rider at their respective peaks, both were awesomely good, and if I chose to deal in coulda shouldas as is the wont of Rossi fans Mick wasn't a million miles away from being a seven times world champion himself.

I have much more respect for Mick in general than I do for Rossi now, for obvious reasons (obvious to you and me anyway); not that Mick was perfect, but I don't think he was a devious manipulator such as Rossi has revealed himself to be, and he was certainly imo less invested in his own celebrity, not that his level of celebrity approached Rossi's of course.

Keshav · Mar 17, 2017

michaelm said:
To be fair JB was fairly strongly implying in various interviews that Rossi was in his opinion past it, perhaps not what Rossi was looking for at the time.

Burgess has always rated him ahead of even Doohan overall though, and continued to do so, went with him after entreaties from Rossi to both Yamaha and Ducati, on the first occasion despite having been a career Honda man, and on the second occasion despite very definite severe misgivings which I personally heard him express in regard to Ducati. He and Valentino also reputedly had a strong friendship as well, which you never hear of these days, although again to be fair Burgess seems to have withdrawn himself fairly totally from the whole GP scene on his retirement.

You always seem to have excellent recall - so I'm not inclined to counter that statement. I'd just never seen any interview pre-firing, where he stated that. I find it really hard to picture him doing that publicly. Burgess always seemed to be a good company man and a team player.

Would love to read his memoirs - but he doesn't strike me as the type to air dirty laundry.

Gaz · Mar 17, 2017

Keshav said:
You always seem to have excellent recall - so I'm not inclined to counter that statement. I'd just never seen any interview pre-firing, where he stated that. I find it really hard to picture him doing that publicly. Burgess always seemed to be a good company man and a team player.

Would love to read his memoirs - but he doesn't strike me as the type to air dirty laundry.

Not just Mick's recall as I do recall an interview on Australian TV, filmed at JB'S Adelaide Hills home where we outright criticised Rossi for his riding (not ability, but desire, results) and went on to say that unless things change drastically with rules and equipment, then Rossi will not win another championship.

Same interview he went some way to contradicting Rossi with regards to Ducati as JB stated that they were listened to and did get absolutely what they asked for, but that they could not make it work and he felt that the reasons was simply that Rossi had lost desire and wanted out as he realised the mistake.

I remember thinking at the time that all hell would break loose when the interview 'got out' but it never seemed to until later, which made me think that it may have been an Australian release only interview

The interview may have been one of the 60 minute style but it was quite obvious at the time watching it, that not all was pleasant in Uccio's garage

aaronl · Mar 17, 2017

Back in 2012 when his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer he claimed there was no way he'd take on a younger rider and he felt Rossi and himself would retire around the same time, end of 2012. He thought Rossi had lost the will to win and was done, the ducati was the final nail in the coffin.

I seem to remember that tv interview as well. Thinking he was over it and what the reaction would be to the tells all tales.

Keshav · Mar 17, 2017

Gaz said:
Not just Mick's recall as I do recall an interview on Australian TV, filmed at JB'S Adelaide Hills home where we outright criticised Rossi for his riding (not ability, but desire, results) and went on to say that unless things change drastically with rules and equipment, then Rossi will not win another championship.

Same interview he went some way to contradicting Rossi with regards to Ducati as JB stated that they were listened to and did get absolutely what they asked for, but that they could not make it work and he felt that the reasons was simply that Rossi had lost desire and wanted out as he realised the mistake.

I remember thinking at the time that all hell would break loose when the interview 'got out' but it never seemed to until later, which made me think that it may have been an Australian release only interview

The interview may have been one of the 60 minute style but it was quite obvious at the time watching it, that not all was pleasant in Uccio's garage

Oh... so the interview occurred in Australia... no wonder nobody heard about it.

michaelm · Mar 17, 2017

Gaz said:
Not just Mick's recall as I do recall an interview on Australian TV, filmed at JB'S Adelaide Hills home where we outright criticised Rossi for his riding (not ability, but desire, results) and went on to say that unless things change drastically with rules and equipment, then Rossi will not win another championship.

Same interview he went some way to contradicting Rossi with regards to Ducati as JB stated that they were listened to and did get absolutely what they asked for, but that they could not make it work and he felt that the reasons was simply that Rossi had lost desire and wanted out as he realised the mistake.

I remember thinking at the time that all hell would break loose when the interview 'got out' but it never seemed to until later, which made me think that it may have been an Australian release only interview

The interview may have been one of the 60 minute style but it was quite obvious at the time watching it, that not all was pleasant in Uccio's garage

There was at least one interview in a bike magazine as well. As Keshav implies, he wasn't proclaiming it on motogp.com though.

Gaz · Mar 17, 2017

Keshav said:
Oh... so the interview occurred in Australia... no wonder nobody heard about it.

And it was even recorded in colour ............ we sure have come a long way

Jeremy Burgess - Life After Rossi

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