MotoGP: 2015 Round 07 - Catalunya (SPOILERS)

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JPSLotus said:
It makes a strong argument for why 2-stroke bikes should be the norm at the premier class. Instead of throwing out mentally immature kids onto the bikes in their late teens, or early 20s, the teams might actual focus on truly developing riders properly.

Christ, I can't even imagine being on one of those bikes at 21 or 22 years old, and being mentally capable of handling that. I was a huge hot-head back then, and I probably would have reenacted Road Rash with guys out there.

I think one day there's eventually going to be a huge push back on electronics in not just MotoGP, but motor racing in general. People say it's a natural outgrowth of progression, but if the nature of sport is to entertain, eventually it's not entertaining to watch all measure of driver/rider assists being put into play. Mind you, they still have to perform, but what exactly is the benefit of all of these electronics? If MotoGP switched back to 2-strokes next year, it'd probably do more for the ratings since people would be tuning in to watch the riders try to tame those bikes.
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Eliminating most electronic capability would improve autosport drastically. I think MotoGP might benefit from other changes first.
 
Lotus, let's not jump to conclusions, just because Marc almost murdered that kid, he never rammed into another rider from behind during practice. Ramming Pedrosa and Rossi was done during a race, so u see, this guy is evolving. Seeing Marc narrowly miss torpedoing Lorenzo reminded me of when he narrowly missed torpedoing Pedrosa at the CatalanGP in 2013 (go back and watch, eerily similar to his performance this weekend). Of course he missed Pedrosa's rear end, but Marquez was undeterred and finally caught up to Pedrosa's ... in Aragon. It was argued then that Marc was in total control. I remember arguing that it would be a good idea to sit Marc down and have HRC talk to him. When Marc took Pedrosa out it was unanimously blamed on a stupid sensor (on Dani's bike no less, and spearheaded by Kropo as I recall). Lorenzo almost getting the same treatment as the video u posted has already a scapegoat, apparently it's some kind of braking issue. The brakes fail to work when no pressure is applied to the lever. Stupid brakes.

Edit: grammar
 
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mylexicon said:
Eliminating most electronic capability would improve autosport drastically. I think MotoGP might benefit from other changes first.
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What other changes do you think they would benefit from, aside from the most obvious being the elimination of Dorna and Carmelo.
 
Jumkie said:
Lotus, let's not jump to conclusions, just because Marc almost murdered that kid, he never rammed into another rider from behind during practice. Ramming Pedrosa and Rossi was done during a race, so u see, this guy is evolving. Seeing Marc narrowly miss torpedoing Lorenzo reminded me of when he narrowly missed torpedoing Pedrosa at the CatalanGP in 2013 (go back and watch, eerily similar to his performance this weekend). Of course he missed Pedrosa's rear end, but Marquez was undeterred and finally caught up to Pedrosa's ... in Aragon. It was argued then that Marc was in total control. I remember arguing that it would be a good idea to sit Marc down and have HRC talk to him. When Marc took Pedrosa out it was unanimously blamed on a stupid sensor (on Dani's bike no less, and spearheaded by Kropo as I recall). Lorenzo almost getting the same treatment as the video u posted has already a scapegoat, apparently it's some kind of breaking issue. The breaks fail to work when no pressure is applied to the lever. Stupid breaks.
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Jum, I didn't realize it's fully acceptable when done in the middle of a grand prix. Silly me. As long he avoids FP torpedoing, there's nothing wrong with that riding style.

Of course it's more acceptable because then the scribes can just make-believe, and say it's down to his testicular fortitude and will to win. So he was a tad bit over-zealous, but you know, if the rest of the team expressed that desire, maybe they wouldn't be giving him inferior machinery that sees the gear select lever break off, or slide uncontrollably in corner entry. :spin:

The Aragon sensor excuse always made me laugh. It couldn't possibly be that Marquez clips the bike and then Dani gets high-sided 2 seconds later.

What if this is MurderMac's ultimate plan? He's going to try and take Lorenzo and Rossi out for multiple races so he can make up the points deficit?

Maybe Krops can explain why he needs to keep making excuses for what is blatantly dangerous riding?

What's next for MM at Assen? Pull a chain out and try to lasso Lorenzo off his bike?
 
Iowegian said:
I do remember when I was a kid there was a motorcycle game called road rash where you did exactly that.

https://youtu.be/Pq33jkRbzX0
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That's exactly what I'm referencing!

I spent a whole summer 20 years ago, endlessly playing Road Rash 2.

The best was when you put the code in to get the Wild Thing 2000 bike. A supersport that did 220MPH and would go sideways...sort of like MurderMac.

Hell here's a great video of it. Just watch the first minute and imagine the guy on the bike is a digital recreation of MurderMac. It's not even a stretch of the imagination to do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-9wbWYFeWE

It helps too if to pretend Nick Harris is commentating...

"Marc Marquez is absolutely on the edge. He has the chain in hand and takes down Jorge Lorenzo to take over first place. Superb."
 
And here I thought everyone here was quite a bit older than me. (I'll be 30 this year)

My best friend had it for sega and we used to play the .... out of it. And you're right, imagining Nick Harris commentating makes it that much funnier.
 
Iowegian said:
And here I thought everyone here was quite a bit older than me. (I'll be 30 this year)

My best friend had it for sega and we used to play the .... out of it. And you're right, imagining Nick Harris commentating makes it that much funnier.
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I've never grown up. :cry:
 
Iowegian said:
I do remember when I was a kid there was a motorcycle game called road rash where you did exactly that.

https://youtu.be/Pq33jkRbzX0
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Oh that takes me back!! That game was simply AWESOME!

Back on topic, I agree with JPS. MotoGP would certainly in terms of competition be more exciting with the return of 2 strokes and no electrics.
 
Jumkie said:
Mike, I'm still a bit confused, so because Marquez managed to narrowly miss Lorenzo this is in your estimation noteworthy of Marc's "strong concern" for Jorge's safety? Wouldn't it be easier for Marquez to show his strong concern for his colleagues by not putting them in a situation (repeatedly) in which he HAS rammed riders from behind?

Regarding your sensitivity to some kind of corollary of: the rider is to blame vs the machine is to blame, given your defense of Stoner 's Ducati experience; allow me to point out a pivotal point, the other similarly branded HRC machines have won and have been on the podium with regularity UNLIKE the GP07,08,09, etc. and so forth. I understand your sensitivity but a corollary to Marc on a RCV can hardly be made to Stoner on a Ducati, unless one is a fool. Which to use his words "perfectly illustrates" how absurd is Kropo's argument.
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I also spent last year on another forum defending Jorge Lorenzo against an obsessed Frenchman who had decided that last year's early season results were the true measure of him rather than all the wins and championships, and that he had totally screwed up Yamaha development to Valentino's disadvantage, again a reason I am reluctant to entirely dismiss a multiple championship and race winning rider.

Agree with much of your post on the other thread as reputedly did Lorenzo and Dani in 2013, who apparently thought it was a matter of time till MM crashed out of the championship that year

I do think there is room both for him to be a guy prone to riding rashly and for Honda to have somewhat screwed up their bike though, perhaps hoist on their own petard given their influence on the current rules. The bike has looked more difficult to ride for him and others, and the Yamaha does look to have improved.

I agree with Birdman's post about tyres on the other thread, and also with Lex about the premier class being populated by historically young riders with superhuman reflexes but less exceptional judgement; the current set up including the development series seems almost designed to produce such riders and get them on the premier class grid at a callow age.

I have argued from the start in agreement with you that MM should have been severely sanctioned for the Willairot incident in particular which both had significant adverse consequences and was indefensible; probably his team who sent him out deserved such sanctioning as well. This is the problem with business entities motivated by the box office/profit having at least some degree of de facto control over safety and other standards; cf the 2014 Japanese F1 GP.
 
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michaelm said:
I also spent last year on another forum defending Jorge Lorenzo against an obsessed Frenchman who had decided that last year's early season results were the true measure of him rather than all the wins and championships, and that he had totally screwed up Yamaha development to Valentino's disadvantage, again a reason I am reluctant to entirely dismiss a multiple championship and race winning rider.

Agree with much of your post on the other thread as reputedly did Lorenzo and Dani in 2013, who apparently thought it was a matter of time till MM crashed out of the championship that year

I do think there is room both for him to be a guy prone to riding rashly and for Honda to have somewhat screwed up their bike though, perhaps hoist on their own petard given their influence on the current rules. The bike has looked more difficult to ride for him and others, and the Yamaha does look to have improved.

I agree with Birdman's post about tyres on the other thread, and also with Lex about the premier class being populated by historically young riders with superhuman reflexes but less exceptional judgement; the current set up including the development series seems almost designed to produce such riders and get them on the premier class grid at a callow age.

I have argued from the start in agreement with you that MM should have been severely sanctioned for the Willairot incident in particular which both had significant adverse consequences and was indefensible; probably his team who sent him out deserved such sanctioning as well. This is the problem with business entities motivated by the box office/profit having at least some degree of de facto control over safety and other standards; cf the 2014 Japanese F1 GP.
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Quoted simply because it's so well argued. Restoring my faith that people can still employ reasonable analysis and logic.
 
michaelm said:
I have argued from the start in agreement with you that MM should have been severely sanctioned for the Willairot incident in particular which both had significant adverse consequences and was indefensible; probably his team who sent him out deserved such sanctioning as well. This is the problem with business entities motivated by the box office/profit having at least some degree of de facto control over safety and other standards; cf the 2014 Japanese F1 GP.
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Great post Michael. This is what it boils down do: Box office/Ticket Sales/Money. Whilst I admire Rossi's success and admit he is one of if not the best GP riders ever, he has also caused the sport harm. Ignoring using his superstar status to bully/demand changes (such as the Brisdgestones), his success, charisma and post reace antics have made him a legend, a legend to the point where to many, MotoGP isn't that, but MotoRossi. It sickens me when these 'fans' boo a rider who beats Rossi fair and square, they aren't fans of the sport.

The issue is, that Dorna have realised what a cash cow having someone like Rossi in the game is, and are desperate to find another to keep that going. Stand up Marc Marquez. The problem with this, is 'golden boys' get treated different to others (this happens from club to world championship level to be fair) and not only are they given the best of everything (which means they can't handle it when things go wrong in GP as with MM this season) but the officials are more lenient on them. With the Willairot incident, that was at least a one race ban imo, no question. What does he get? Starting at the back of the grid while essentially ending another riders career. Had that been a Redding, a Iannone, a Luthi doing that, would the punishment have been so lenient?

I'm glad you brought up the 2014 Japanese F1 GP Michael, and I won't derail this thread but on this very forum it was debated and I for one was very outspoken about that whole incident (more it's cause than the events afterwards, but stillm on the same theme) and Jumkie was one to join in the healthy debate even if we disagreed. Money/politics is at the core of these 'sports' sadly and will nearly always rule over 'fairness'
 

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