MotoGP: 2015 round 18 - Valencia (SPOILERS)

michaelm · Nov 9, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Surely you are too fair to do such a thing. Not only that, but had anybody raced against Nicky Hayden like that in 2006, you would have said the same, wouldn't you. You are the epitome of objectivity, Jums.

Rather unusually, you are the one running the conspiracy theories this time J4rn0, however, or perhaps more accurately supporting Valentino's conspiracy theory, raised before the Sepang race with little or no evidence and for which events at Sepang provided post hoc justification at best.

One thing definitely not involved in all this is a Dorna conspiracy; as David Emmett said on his blog and I think I had already said on here it was overwhelmingly in Dorna's financial interests for Rossi to win. It is also overwhelmingly in their interest not to have MM in any way discredited since if he does have the powers Rossi has ascribed to him he will win about the next 10 titles, and not really in their interest to have the not all that popular Jorge win.

#22 · Nov 9, 2015

Jumkie said:
You want me to crucify him because he raced cleanly?

Jarno. Jums criticised Marquez when he was riding over the edge and kept crashing because he could have caused harm to himself or other riders.

He then criticised Rossi for the Sepang incident because he could have caused harm to himself or other riders and did with with premeditated intent.

Pretty consistent to me...

J4rn0 · Nov 10, 2015

Dr No said:
While we're putting words in people's mouths, I may.as well have a go, too.

So either you're saying Rossi has no undue influence on the sport.
or
That his influence is due.

Feel free, but for the record I was making fun of Jums there. It's called sarcasm.

#22 · Nov 10, 2015

Dr No said:
While we're putting words in people's mouths, I may.as well have a go, too.

So either you're saying Rossi has no undue influence on the sport.
or
That his influence is due.

You misread 'Words' for 'Dicks'

J4rn0 · Nov 10, 2015

#22 said:
Jarno. Jums criticised Marquez when he was riding over the edge and kept crashing because he could have caused harm to himself or other riders.

He then criticised Rossi for the Sepang incident because he could have caused harm to himself or other riders and did with with premeditated intent.

Pretty consistent to me...

I see. Rossi, one of the greatest racers in history, with 20 years of experience and hundreds of spectacular duels on track to his credit, has suddenly become a murderer for intentionally pushing wide Marquez at low speed with little to no actual risk involved. Marquez, with an history of racing contacts at high speed, often bordering on irresponsibility (as per Jumkies' opinion, not mine!), has now become the example o clean racing and fair play. Call it consistency.

#22 · Nov 10, 2015

I'm not surprised you spin it in favour of Rossi. Marquez HAS been irresponsible, I admit that. In Valencia, PI and arguably Sepang, he rode perfectly fine.

Rossi HAS dueled and ridden great (with the exception of Motegi 10, Laguna 08, Jerez o5 etc) but if you want to try and say what he did in Sepang was clean racing and fair play (YOUR words), then you are completely deluded.

cygnus88 · Nov 10, 2015

For Sure this 2015 Championship is for a joke
Lorenzo99 with Marc93 the star of the new telenovela

#22 · Nov 10, 2015

cygnus88 is the joke of this forum

Dr No · Nov 10, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Feel free, but for the record I was making fun of Jums there. It's called sarcasm.

Err. Rightio.
That was.soo very clear.
You will recognise what that was, no?

#22 · Nov 10, 2015

From motogp.com

Rossi: ?It was unbelievable?

Valentino Rossi makes an incredible charge through the field for fourth in the Valencia GP.

The opening five laps of the Gran Premio Motul de la Comunitat Valenciana were some of the best of Valentino Rossi’s (Movistar Yamaha) career, the experienced Italian cutting through the field. He would eventually end in a respectable fourth place, unfortunately with teammate Jorge Lorenzo taking the victory Rossi was unable to claim his tenth World Title. The 2015 MotoGP™ will always been remembered as one of Rossi’s best, coming back from several tough years and proving that even at 36 years old he’s still a threat.

Valentino Rossi: “We build this season from the first race, and at the end it was anyway a great season. I was always competitive and never make any mistakes. I think that after Motegi I have the potential to win the championship but unfortunately from the race in Phillip Island something changed and in these last three races we saw something that we never saw before in our sport.

“I think that the situation was already bad, but today was embarrassing for everybody because it was unbelievable, the behaviour of Marquez is something very bad for everything, especially for the sport. It is something that nobody expects, because a Honda rider that made a Yamaha rider win and give the maximum just to push out his teammate is something that nobody expect and I think it is very, very bad news. Anyway, it is like this, we have to accept.

“I am happy because now everybody see what I said in Australia and I don’t understand the behaviour of Marquez but sincerely for me it is very difficult to say something to him because I hope that he will understand what he did in these last three races in the future of his career.

“For sure the Hondas were faster. We know that in the second part of the race Honda have a better potential but Marquez just protect Lorenzo like he did in Phillip Island and also Sepang. At the end I think that also Lorenzo have to not be very happy, as it is not a Championship that was won on track. But anyway is memories.”

I think Rossi needs his head examined. Last time I checked, beating a rider for a win is not 'protecting him'

J4rn0 · Nov 11, 2015

#22 said:
From motogp.com

Rossi: ?It was unbelievable?

I think Rossi needs his head examined. Last time I checked, beating a rider for a win is not 'protecting him'

That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

JPSLotus · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

Still grasping for straws over Phillip Island?

Jumkie · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

This post is fascinating. Marquez, the mastermind, thwarted Rossi's championship starting with Phillip Island. Passing the baton to Iannone, who apparently was also on the take, to screw up Rossi's title. I just wish they had been wearing a clear visor, so we could have seen Marc's wink to Ianonne! Ok Crazy Joe, I did my part, time to chase down Lorenzo, you gotta beat Rossi for my evil plan to be complete.

#22 · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

The amount of wild conjecture you manage to amass into a post is just mind boggling.

Cool Blue · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

The "lunacy" is in making accusations that could never be proven about actions that were within the rules.

michaelm · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

As I have said, you are the one running the conspiracy theories now. MM tried hard enough at PI to beat everyone in the race, including both Lorenzo and Rossi, whilst making no moves which put either of them at risk of dnfing; why after all these years of gp bike racing history is there suddenly a requirement for him to have done any more than this?.

As I have posted previously, his last lap was of the order of 0.3 seconds quicker than his penultimate lap at PI, as opposed to him catching up over 0.4 seconds on the last lap at Assen before the end of the lap to make his abortive passing attempt on Valentino. He was hence equally "obviously" faster there, and Jorge wasn't anywhere near, why did he wait till the last lap on that occasion?

RCV600RR · Nov 11, 2015

J4rn0 said:
That's MM93 and Honda's mantra and you repeat it diligently, conveniently ignoring that Marquez, before eventually arriving in front of Lorenzo, made sure that Lorenzo would not be beaten by his direct title rival, -- and note that in that race Rossi was as fast or faster than Jorge, so the possibility was concrete. That's worth more than the 5 points Lorenzo "lost", because anyway he scored more points than Rossi!

It was not apparent at first sight, even less to Rossi who was involved in it, but when you review the race you can see how Marquez, by lingering with Rossi and Iannone, (note that he could have easily left them there as he was faster) made sure that Rossi would never get enough advantage on Iannone in the corners to avoid being re-passed by the faster Ducati on the straights. He stayed with them until the last lap to be sure, then with sudden ease he caught up with Lorenzo and won.

Thanks to this (shall I repeat this?) Marquez made sure that Lorenzo scored more points than Rossi, and that is what mattered for the championship.

So Rossi's claims may be a matter of interpretation, as evidence is difficult to come by in such things, but for sure they are not "lunacy" as you and others like to think.

To be fair, Iannone came to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately, the evidence is not sufficiently clear to make a judgment either way (although I'd love to know what exactly Alzamora said to Rossi...).

JPSLotus · Nov 11, 2015

Iannone came to the same conclusion because Rossi was ready to throw him under the bus to the Italian media if he didn't go along with it.

RCV600RR · Nov 11, 2015

Jumkie said:
Passing the baton to Iannone, who apparently was also on the take, to screw up Rossi's title.

I think you're misquoting j4rno: he never suggested that Iannone was doing anything other than riding as hard as he could.

RCV600RR · Nov 11, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Iannone came to the same conclusion because Rossi was ready to throw him under the bus to the Italian media if he didn't go along with it.

Why is that when Iannone says something, he can't be taken at face value, but when MM or JL say something, they must be taken at face value? It's okay to question Iannone's reasons for proferring that evidence, but to suggest that you authoritatively know why Iannone made that comment is just absurd.

Any evidence that might support Rossi's view is discarded as false, yet any evidence that might support MM's view is unquestionably accepted.

Hate blinds.

MotoGP: 2015 round 18 - Valencia (SPOILERS)

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