Radio Tavullia: Rossi without Burgess in 2014

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Exactly right, Austin. Nice post.


 


The Saturday-night specials were given to most of the top Michelin riders.


 


Think about it logically: Honda would not spend tens of millions of dollars to let Michelin decide the race in favour of Vale!


 


 


 


On another point, I don't agree that Vale had weak competition. Vale had Pedrosa to fight since '06. Jorge came in '08 too.


 


He beat Jorge quite comprehensively in 08 and 09; compare that to rookie Marquez coming in and beating his teammate Pedrosa in his first year.
 
The main issue with the SNSs, and I've been said it before, was the lack of transparency surrounding them.

Tiered tyres go way back - late80s/early90s saw A and B spec Michelins, distributed by factory status and rider performance. No chance if you were on the Bs.
 
Austin
3675681384057640



I look at the years Rossi won the lion's share of his titles - 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 - and frankly, I just don't see the depth of talent we're treated to today. I think history would suggest that neither Biaggi, Gibernau, nor Melandri had the mental toughness to mount a serious challenge, and by the time Nicky had become stable in the series - despite HRC's best efforts, cough, Evo, cough - the days of the big Superbikes were over and he was never a rider versatile enough to win on an 800.


For me, the saddest part of Rossi's career is that he was too late to be measured up against Doohan, Schwantz, and Rainey, and too early to match up against Lorenzo and Marquez for any length of time with all parties in their primes. Sure, there was Stoner, but at the very minimum, half of his career in the premier class was spent on/in machinery/teams incapable of winning a championship.
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Hallelujah! Thank you. Given that you tend to get the credence you deserve around here hopefully I won't have to make that point again.


 


Talking of SNS - Eurosport are actually screening the fabled Estoril '06 race today during the 'delayed coverage'. Further regarding tyres, Rog I agree that Valentino wasn't purely in a position to benefit from this preferential treatment - he had to understand how to fully capitalise upon this advantage and then make it work which many couldn't. Furthermore, if I recall correctly, there were very few that could make the Garry McCoy 16.5 inch tyre and special compound to work bar Rossi. They all wanted it but couldn't understand how to exploit it.


 


That said, what pissed me off was that there were some talented riders at the bottom of the pile who appeared to get tyres - from the bottom of the pile.


 


The provision of an SNS may have as Rog said been less prevalent than Jum suggests, but on those occasions when conditions allowed its use it was deployed to devastating effect primarily by Rossi. 
 
RCV600RR
3675711384061883

On another point, I don't agree that Vale had weak competition. Vale had Pedrosa to fight since '06. 
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You just completely ruined an almost credible post there my friend  :blink:  :rofl:
 
Jumkie
3675531384044168

I believe VR cruised around the 2nd year at Ducati. Given VRs delusional decision to throw his crew chief under the bus for his own shortcomings, confirms to me he gave up on Ducati thinking (like boppers, J4rn0 in particular) that the manufacturer wasnt trying to help him. So he quit on them (justified in his mind 'too'). That is to say 'he stopped trying harder'. So next year he will put in a greater effort. What do u find wrong with me saying as much, I dont understand your logic in saying this. VR said himself he is 'looking for new motivation'. That is, the motivation now is, in his mind, insufficient. According to VR he didnt find Burgess incompetent.


Rossi is not going to dramatically improve compa. He is on a machine that if he were better, he could beat Lorenzo Pedrosa & Marquez. (.... man, he should at least be beating Pedro). When Lorenzo can beat any factory RCV in a race, VR has no excuse for not doing the same. After all, even Lorenzo beat VR on a bike developed around Rossi. I dont believe Rossi was ever that much better than his rivals, and I've been saying this since I joined the forum. Since the end of 2009 everything ive ever asserted about his ability has repeatedly and consistently been vindicated. He took a win worthy bike in 2010 and never won on it. He developed it backward. He was elevated back onto a win worthy bike, and we've seen him struggle to stay ahead of Crutchlow and Bautista. This season should have been winless had it not been for Lorenzo's injury.


But as they say, it counts more when we put our money where are mouth is, so; let wager: 2 bottles of premium spirits no less than $100 and not to exceed $200, combined cost, for the following bet, I say VR will come 4th or worse next year, that is, no improvement from this year. Caveat, baring serious jury from any of the riders on win worthy bikes.
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I never suggested or personally believe rossi will improve without jb. My issue was the way you engineer your vindication conditions so you cant possible be vindicated.


The question, was Rossi right to sack JB.


Your conditions. If Rossi dramatically improves its because he wasn't trying before, ie with jb as crew chief. If he doesn't improve then he was wrong to sack JB. What ever happens under those conditions Rossi is wrong. Thank god you're not a judge !  You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't logic.
 
Whether he was wrong or right, whether he will be vindicated in the future or not, whether he is in the twilight of his career or being held back by an engineering dinosaur, really isn't the point.


 


The point is, he fired him publicly in the lead-up to the last race of the year. That's a .... move in anybodies book.


 


Wait five days and he is a Don, a prince among caring team players - but he didn't, he went for the press conference to keep himself in the news while the Yellow press speculate who is going to be running the show going forward.


 


If karma is really the ..... I believe she is, he will lose half his team (certainly the majority of his Antipodean crew - who have been with Burgess for a long time) to someone that appreciates loyalty.


 


It was a punk move.
 
Rossi sucks and he’s a looser, he will never ever win another WC, he’s the type that thinks that he’s team are the ones that are to blame for his gutless performances since 2006, VR has gone from bad to worse, Jeremy was the man who got him to where he in the early days and in 2013 VR has to blame someone for his lack of riding balls and competitiveness a la the pathetic Ducati stint and now more so it's so embarrassing for him with Yamaha who gave him one more year to polish his balls up otherwise Yamaha will look stupid. But motogp has been ruined in the last few years and its fibre and racing finesse is nothing like it was in past years and motogp has been spoiled by the lack of international riders that have participated at the top levels in the past and unfortunately it only has Spaniards who are riding in the top teams, and as I’ve said this before and that is, that the Spanish national anthem is the only anthem that has been played in season 2013 at every race, how f__ken boring and how F__ken uninteresting, even F1 is more exciting than watching any of the moto races and that is saying something.





 
 
Mick D
3676451384084304

No he didn't.
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Checking the timeline:


 


"The time of the evening between 22.45 Monday, November 5 and Tuesday 6 when the "bomb" comes to the reporter, precise, dry: " Valentino does not want Jeremy Burgess as its head coach."


 


"Valentino Rossi believes now is the right time to part company with legendary Australian chief engineer Jerry Burgess, as the news of their shock split continues to dominate the headlines at the final race in Valencia. Rossi informed Burgess yesterday (Thursday) that he would be replacing him as crew chief for the 2014 season after the story leaked in the Italian press"


 


So, it would seem that he made it public before he actually spoke to Burgess face-to-face.


 


A punk move.
 
Parrish also says, no dignity, anyway you look at it, Rossi should have kept his mouth shut until after the gp, this weekend is about JL and MM, but once again Rossi gets the headlines. Hmmmm
 
the-insider
3676701384087949

Parrish also says, no dignity, anyway you look at it, Rossi should have kept his mouth shut until after the gp, this weekend is about JL and MM, but once again Rossi gets the headlines. Hmmmm
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Yet the eurosport team said "at least he didn't wait until after the race". I guess there is no easy way to sack someone so close to you and no real better time to do it.
 
RCV600RR
3675711384061883

Exactly right, Austin. Nice post.


 


The Saturday-night specials were given to most of the top Michelin riders.


 


Think about it logically: Honda would not spend tens of millions of dollars to let Michelin decide the race in favour of Vale!


 


 


 


On another point, I don't agree that Vale had weak competition. Vale had Pedrosa to fight since '06. Jorge came in '08 too.


 


He beat Jorge quite comprehensively in 08 and 09; compare that to rookie Marquez coming in and beating his teammate Pedrosa in his first year.
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ALL you have to do is look at his winning % and titles from the 1st half of his career, compared to the second half once Pedrosa, Stoner, and Lorenzo came on the scene.


 


5 to 2 in titles


53 wins to 27 wins


 


As you can see, his winning dropped drastically since 06, so its not a stretch at all to say that his competition was much weaker before 2006.
 
Arrabbiata1
3675881384077885

You just completely ruined an almost credible post there my friend  :blink:  :rofl:
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Hahaha, I do feel that people strongly underrate Pedrosa. Some random observations:


 


- 2005 - Beat Stoner quite comprehensively (when Stoner had a factory Aprilia)


- 2006 - Strong rookie season, regularly challenging for wins and in the title hunt until the penultimate round


- 2008 - Leading the championship until he broke his collarbone in the wet weather crash at Sachsenring (when Puig told him on the pitboard that he was .5 up on Rossi [or Stoner?] when he was actually 8 seconds ahead)


- 2009 - Injured himself badly in a crash, so was unable to challenge for the title


- 2010 - Broke his collarbone in Motegi (in the middle of a winning streak) when the HRC throttle ride-by-wire was stuck open (although I do feel that Lorenzo would have won that championship, Pedrosa would have been much closer)


- 2011 - Leading the championship (with Stoner as his teammate) until Marco took him out and broke his collarbone


- 2012 - Beat Stoner on the same bike (yes, Stoner was injured, but Dani was ahead in the standings even before the injury)


 


He's had some misfortune, but that should not obscure the fact that he's a one of the fastest and most talented riders in GP history. His biggest issue is that when he crashes, he tends to break something.


 


Of course, Rossi also beat Jorge quite handily for two-years straight. Yes, he was a rookie in 2008, but ask Pedrosa how fast a young rookie teammate can be...!
 
RCV600RR
3677101384097718

14 years in the premier class - he's allowed to get a few tenths slower!
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Agreed, but the question is, does he deserve the factory Yamaha seat any longer. He offered very little help to the team by being unable to run with the competition.
 
povol
3677121384098897

Agreed, but the question is, does he deserve the factory Yamaha seat any longer. He offered very little help to the team by being unable to run with the competition.
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Whether he still deserves it through his on-track abilities is debateable, but the sheer number of fans and marketing value he brings to the sport will see he gets it until he finally hangs up his leathers.
 
povol
3677121384098897

Agreed, but the question is, does he deserve the factory Yamaha seat any longer. He offered very little help to the team by being unable to run with the competition.
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I dont see your problem. Without giving away a spoiler in this thread the championship ended how it was expected in 1st to 4th. Had he finished lower than 4th i would see your problem.
 

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