MotoGP: 2016 Round 02 - Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina (SPOILERS)

Keshav · Apr 5, 2016

steeeeeve said:
I thinks it's bs that mm started on the weaker bike. Strategically it makes no sense.
Get yourself buried at the beginning of the race and have to fight with slower riders rather than use your strong bike to break away the make the change while the field is more spread out. Also. Strategically you'd stay on you weaker bike the shortest number of laps.
That being said. Keep in mind I am aware that mm is much faster than most of the field even if he is on bike 2.

Bro.... yer saying "weaker" bike. But that presumes a wide margin of difference between MM's #1 and #2 bike. Chances are good, (these being Hondas) that the disparity between the two was/is dramatic, are small. Marquez's preference of one over the other are unlikely to be all that great. I reckon (as you inferred) that MM was pretty damned confident and knew he could beat Rossi regardless of which bike he was on.

Keshav · Apr 5, 2016

steeeeeve said:
The potential for getting buried and having to make difficult passes and close battle racing part. .

Given MM is head and shoulders faster than everyone except for Lorenzo (who looked like crap all through practice) and the two Ducatis - there was little chance MM would at any point get stuck in rush hour traffic. He'd practiced his bike switch to perfection. There was no way (barring a pile-up in pit lane) that MM was going to end up behind the slower riders, who, after all, had to pit as well.

steeeeeve · Apr 5, 2016

Keshav said:
Given MM is head and shoulders faster than everyone except for Lorenzo (who looked like crap all through practice) and the two Ducatis - there was little chance MM would at any point get stuck in rush hour traffic. He'd practiced his bike switch to perfection. There was no way (barring a pile-up in pit lane) that MM was going to end up behind the slower riders, who, after all, had to pit as well.

Ya. It seems some riders are more partial to there #1 bike than others. I agree it doesn't seem to be as big of deal to MM. But still to me risk management and race strategy would mean start as fast as you can, clear off, stay on your best bike maximum number of laps.

A few years ago I remember seeing news about a short Nascar race where there was one forced pit stop. One driver waited until the last lap to pit, meaning he didn't have to bring his car completely up to speed after the pit and won handily. (tires and fuel were obviously not an issue). It blew my mind that his was the only team to think of this. Afterwards, Nascar immediately changed the rules to no pitting on the last lap.

TheJuice46 · Apr 5, 2016

Jumkie said:
Wait, are you saying Rossi was sandbagging? You mean to tell me he was employing the criminal activity that he accused Marquez of last year? Wasn't part of the accusation that Marquez had greater pace but he refused to use it until prompted?

Philip Island, Marquez sandbagged until the last lap until he found a second out of thin air to help Lorenzo by beating him?

Sepang, Marquez sandbagged until Rossi caught him then suddenly found the pace to be passed by Rossi repeatedly?

Valencia, sandbagged behind Lorenzo until Pedrosa used his sudden pace (was probably sandbagging too) to attempt an overtaking where he ran wide giving the fast line to Marquez?

Now Rossi is sandbagging? Say it isn't so.

I'm glad you've stuck around the forum. We need members like you to provide us with various viewpoint. I hope you convince Da Ambassador to post more. I'd like to read his opinions. Of course, as you've no doubt learned, it does take some skin to stick around. Take the forum for what it is, just a place where we all can soap box.

Rossi 'alluded' to 'maybe' a 'possible' tire issue. This would account for a difference, but as Povol said, I think it was a combination of Marc's stronger pace with Rossi's weaker pace. That can certainly come from the common difference of a #1 versus #2 bike.

However, i like to make comment as to an underlying message I detect in your post. To the point about the difference in bikes and how the pit stop may have cheated Rossi out of a win. (See his post race comments, now being echoed in other forums and comments sections). I'd like to point out Marquez was aware his second bike was superior to his first. His strategic plan was to "finish strong" rather than start strong. Contrast this to Rossi. I haven't read comments regarding his two bike strategy, but one of two things seems to be true, 1. He intended to have a stronger bike to start, or 2. His second stint was compromised by a poorer bike and/or poor tire. Either way, the fact remains, Marquez was stronger in the second stint to Rossi.

Here is the point, Marquez equalled or bested Rossi wilst he was on his weaker bike and Rossi was on his better one. Can someone explain why Rossi would attempt to assert that he was going to beat Marquez without the pit stop given that Marquez would have obviously picked his stronger bike which had superior pace to Rossi? That's not even factoring in that as Rossi himself has alluded, Michelin have a quality control problem.

I know he reads the comments, I'll try and get him to post more though. I definitely don't feel like Rossi was cheated, it was just unfortunate that there wasn't a bit more of a battle with Marquez. MM tactic to save his best bike for last was a great move and on top of that he rode amazingly and deserved the win. But where most people say that Rossi was lucky to get on the podium at all I see it that he was unlucky to struggle with his second bike to the point where he ended up being passed. Purely a matter of opinion, and that's fine, there's truth to both sides of that argument.

I also agree with JPS too, that Rossi might not have the speed to win many races but if he can consistently podium like last year then I don't see an issue with his mentality. When it comes to the championship it's about how many points you have, not how you got them. But even then I still think he'll grab one or two race wins this season yet...he may not be the outright fastest but in no way is he slow.

And for the sandbagging comments...I have to say they're a bit weak. I expect more from you guys

I try to be as fair as I possibly can, I'll listen to any legitimate argument

HelloMars · Apr 5, 2016

MotoGP in chaos: staff and bikes still stuck in Argentina | GPone.com

Jumkie · Apr 5, 2016

Can we cancel the Argentine GP already? The maintenance of the track for a world class event was atrocious. Now this .....

If Dorna want a GP in a Latin American country; Go back to Laguna Seca.

MdubSTYLIE · Apr 5, 2016

HelloMars said:
MotoGP in chaos: staff and bikes still stuck in Argentina | GPone.com

If they can get to Guatemala, Jumkie and I know some great coyotes that can get them the rest of the way into Texas.

TheJuice46 · Apr 5, 2016

Jumkie said:
Can we cancel the Argentine GP already? The maintenance of the track for a world class event was atrocious. Now this .....

If Dorna want a GP in a Latin American country; Go back to Laguna Seca.

I know the track looked so slippery even ken block would have had trouble completing a lap

MdubSTYLIE · Apr 5, 2016

TheJuice46 said:
I know the track looked so slippery even ken block would have had trouble completing a lap

Its because the track was so dirty Charlie Sheen wouldn't ride it.

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 5, 2016

TheJuice46 said:
I know he reads the comments, I'll try and get him to post more though. I definitely don't feel like Rossi was cheated, it was just unfortunate that there wasn't a bit more of a battle with Marquez. MM tactic to save his best bike for last was a great move and on top of that he rode amazingly and deserved the win. But where most people say that Rossi was lucky to get on the podium at all I see it that he was unlucky to struggle with his second bike to the point where he ended up being passed. Purely a matter of opinion, and that's fine, there's truth to both sides of that argument.

I also agree with JPS too, that Rossi might not have the speed to win many races but if he can consistently podium like last year then I don't see an issue with his mentality. When it comes to the championship it's about how many points you have, not how you got them. But even then I still think he'll grab one or two race wins this season yet...he may not be the outright fastest but in no way is he slow.

And for the sandbagging comments...I have to say they're a bit weak. I expect more from you guys I try to be as fair as I possibly can, I'll listen to any legitimate argument

Hey Moose ..... What your missing is that Rossi is riding an alien bike. Your hero is only on podiums by default. He's rarely if ever going to beat Marquez or Lorenzo barring catastrophic circumstances.
If your going to beat off to something then make it the M1 because thats where you alien resides

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 5, 2016

MdubSTYLIE said:
Its because the track was so dirty Charlie Sheen wouldn't ride it.

He probaly would and do just fine. He's loaded with rider aids

Tha Ambassador · Apr 5, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Hey Moose ..... What your missing is that Rossi is riding an alien bike. Your hero is only on podiums by default. He's rarely if ever going to beat Marquez or Lorenzo barring catastrophic circumstances.
If your going to beat off to something then make it the M1 because thats where you alien resides

You just contradicted yourself while trying to make a point. You claim that the only reason Rossi has enough pace, stability, speed etc to end up on the podium is because of the M1. That's funny because last time I checked, Rossi and Lorenzo are on the same bike. One of those two riders *cough* Rossi *cough* had enough skill to bring the bike home on the same track, with the same amount of time to set up the bike. How would you explain that? The results speak for themselves.

This race was an absolute .... show. The track was ...., the tires were .... and the flag to flag situation was ..... We were robbed from an absolutely awesome battle developing between Rossi and Marquez. What I saw was good clean racing between them and was thoroughly pissed by the flag to flag ruling. Also Michelin needs to get the hell out of Motogp if they can't even make a tire properly. Having 2 tires delaminate in VERY serious situations is not cool and puts all the riders at risk.

I can't wait to see a real race at COTA.

JPSLotus · Apr 5, 2016

I have another theory about Sunday.

What if MM was toying with Rossi in the first part of the race? Basically he spent the time exploring Rossi's pace and what he could do out there, and was letting Rossi keep up with him out there just to create a false sense of security that the race was going to be closer than it actually would turn out to be. It's obviously a mind .... when you are thinking you are going to challenge for the win, only for the second stint to be marked by MM dropping the hammer and disappearing off into the distance while you're unable to get out of the 1:41's.

Sure there was a difference in the bikes for both riders I am sure, but maybe not as big of a difference as Rossi wants to believe. He thinks the second bike setup got ...... up, and that the tires weren't right...but if MM continues running 1:41's in the second part of the race, does Rossi really think these things? Probably not. He might still have felt the bike wasn't ideal, but if he is keeping pace with MM, then he wouldn't feel as strongly about the bike and tires not being right. Instead he finds himself being left in the dust, so what else is there to blame?

Meanwhile MM knew he had the pace to go into the 1:40's, but why show your hand right away when you can goad Rossi into thinking he has a chance, only to destroy that chance at will. Winning is obviously the goal, but being able to have Rossi searching for a solution that doesn't exist is even better, especially after last year. It's kind of like what Rossi used to do in another time.

Jumkie · Apr 5, 2016

Tha Ambassador said:
This race was an absolute .... show. The track was ...., the tires were .... and the flag to flag situation was ..... We were robbed from an absolutely awesome battle developing between Rossi and Marquez. What I saw was good clean racing between them and was thoroughly pissed by the flag to flag ruling. Also Michelin needs to get the hell out of Motogp if they can't even make a tire properly. Having 2 tires delaminate in VERY serious situations is not cool and puts all the riders at risk.

I can't wait to see a real race at COTA.

Hi Tha...Ambassador, welcome back. I hope you post regularly. Your buddy Juice 46 has a similar message, though more subtle than you. So I think it apropos to your post.

Jumkie said:
However, i like to make comment as to an underlying message I detect in your post. To the point about the difference in bikes and how the pit stop may have cheated Rossi out of a win. (See his post race comments, now being echoed in other forums and comments sections). I'd like to point out Marquez was aware his second bike was superior to his first. His strategic plan was to "finish strong" rather than start strong. Contrast this to Rossi. I haven't read comments regarding his two bike strategy, but one of two things seems to be true, 1. He intended to have a stronger bike to start, or 2. His second stint was compromised by a poorer bike and/or poor tire. Either way, the fact remains, Marquez was stronger in the second stint to Rossi.

Here is the point, Marquez equalled or bested Rossi wilst he was on his weaker bike and Rossi was on his better one. Can someone explain why Rossi would attempt to assert that he was going to beat Marquez without the pit stop given that Marquez would have obviously picked his stronger bike which had superior pace to Rossi? That's not even factoring in that as Rossi himself has alluded, Michelin have a quality control problem.

TheJuice46 · Apr 5, 2016

JohnnyKnockdown said:
Hey Moose ..... What your missing is that Rossi is riding an alien bike. Your hero is only on podiums by default. He's rarely if ever going to beat Marquez or Lorenzo barring catastrophic circumstances.
If your going to beat off to something then make it the M1 because thats where you alien resides

Rossi finished 7 of 18 races 2nd or above last year. That's over 1/3 of the races finished above the third place podium. I'm glad to hear that you think Michele Pirro could podium 15 times in a season if he was on the m1 though, bless your ignorant soul, I'm actually a bit jealous of you, I hear ignorance is bliss.

yamfan · Apr 5, 2016

Jumkie said:
Can we cancel the Argentine GP already? The maintenance of the track for a world class event was atrocious. Now this .....

If Dorna want a GP in a Latin American country; Go back to Laguna Seca.

LAGUNA SECA SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN CANCELLED. Best track on calendar for me.

yamfan · Apr 5, 2016

TheJuice46 said:
Rossi finished 7 of 18 races 2nd or above last year. That's over 1/3 of the races finished above the third place podium. I'm glad to hear that you think Michele Pirro could podium 15 times in a season if he was on the m1 though, bless your ignorant soul, I'm actually a bit jealous of you, I hear ignorance is bliss.

In all honesty how would we know unless he was given the opportunity. The M1 can flatter riders, even Crutchlow got podiums regularly on the satellite M1.
Valentino is good to say the least but it's not like others can't do the same as him or even better...

TheJuice46 · Apr 5, 2016

yamfan said:
In all honesty how would we know unless he was given the opportunity. The M1 can flatter riders, even Crutchlow got podiums regularly on the satellite M1.
Valentino is good to say the least but it's not like others can't do the same as him or even better...

Ya I understand. I just have trouble with people saying it's purely the bike, anyway I guess we'll only know for sure once Jorge starts racing for Ducati...

MdubSTYLIE · Apr 5, 2016

yamfan said:
In all honesty how would we know unless he was given the opportunity. The M1 can flatter riders, even Crutchlow got podiums regularly on the satellite M1.
Valentino is good to say the least but it's not like others can't do the same as him or even better...

You know who it didn't flatter? Ben Spies. He won a race on it but thats about it.

JohnnyKnockdown · Apr 5, 2016

TheJuice46 said:
Ya I understand. I just have trouble with people saying it's purely the bike, anyway I guess we'll only know for sure once Jorge starts racing for Ducati...

Ive got a little homework for you Celine. Outside of Stoner on a Ducati when is the last time a bike that isnt a Yamaha or Honda won a dry race?

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MotoGP: 2016 Round 02 - Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina (SPOILERS)

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