MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)

JPSLotus said:

It's only a problem when Rossi gets shafted by something. Then the outrage starts building.

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Or when he squealed moaned and complained (and set up a mock interview with Grazi)...only to be described as "well he should speak out", Yamaha were .... to treat him equal and Ducati never listened to him. Waa waa... except that was NOT whining.

yzthumpa said:

No, it wasn't.
Another poster politely asked me, "So just how ....... stupid are you actually?"

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Was that before or after you insinuated I was "stupid" and "delusional"? Haha , czech the time stamps homie. Oops, Dr. Thumpa

J4rn0 said:

Elias beat Rossi because Rossi had finished his tires -- there was no other reason (Rossi was faster than Elias as long as his tires lasted) and surely he didn't complain about Elias going for it. He did complain about Elias taking him out of the first race that year -- that was the real key as it costed 25 solid points.

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Dear Rossi fan.
You may note that my comments were more to do with the commentary around transparency and the SMS'. There is no need to defend VR against Elias' tyres nor the race tactics in that event.
Rossi, the master of running full race distance, burnt out his tyres, against a guy who had not run them....ok.

Now the real key that season? Mind games. He crashed out of his own accord. Nicky won. Numbers don't lie

Jumkie said:

Or when he squealed moaned and complained (and set up a mock interview with Grazi)...only to be described as "well he should speak out", Yamaha were .... to treat him equal and Ducati never listened to him. Waa waa... except that was NOT whining.

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The fans regurgitated all of this endlessly, so now it's become the accepted narrative. Don't get me wrong, the Ducati adventure was bad and they did not build good bikes by that point. However, he was eager to prove Yamaha and everyone else wrong, and made a bad decision. Instead Ducati gets all of the blame for something he should have known was going to turn out the way it did.

yzthumpa said:

On a different note, have their been any comments from Burgess since Rossi's newfound success? Rossi was panned for dumping him, but Burgess was quite vocal about Rossi just not having it anymore. We know who proved right in that regard.

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Rossi didn't have it, frankly my contention has always been he never did. Tire change this year and suddenly Marc starts crashing Rossi starts winning. Yes suddenly, because the previous 4 years he had managed only 3 races, all anomalies, rain and crashes. This year 4 (shelving the Marc crashes). Very little to do with Burgess more to do with Dorna tires.

J4rn0 said:

Elias beat Rossi because Rossi had finished his tires -- there was no other reason (Rossi was faster than Elias as long as his tires lasted) and surely he didn't complain about Elias going for it. He did complain about Elias taking him out of the first race that year -- that was the real key as it costed 25 solid points.

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No SNS, no Toni Elias win. Every single result that Rossi used SNS is equivalent to equipment enhancing drugs. Every season where the tire suddenly changed and fortunes dramatically shifted are equally suspect. How many doctored titles equal a legitimate one?

yzthumpa said:

No, it wasn't.
Another poster politely asked me, "So just how ....... stupid are you actually?"

I merely answered his question with the facts ( as I'm so prone to do). And that's "Dr. Thumpa" to you, boy.

For the record, I'm not a lifelong Rossi fan, nor did I jump on any bandwagon at his peak of success. My brother was a GP fan for years, while I stuck to MX. I got interested when Nicky made the jump, and really didn't start watching every race until Nicky's title run. At that point I was very anti-Rossi. I eventually became a fan because I simply appreciated his talents - or maybe I just like to root for the underdog.

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Similarly Dr MichaelM to you boy.

As I recall the contention was mainly that your post was stupid, which is possible however intelligent you consider yourself to be or may in fact be, and you certainly got snarky about the likelihood of my qualification for Mensa based on no information. I have a long term view quite independent of your neophyte posting that Mensa, for which I would definitely qualify, is a .... and a refuge for those with little else to recommend them other than an IQ test result.

I have a problem with some of Rossi's fans but not with his talent or achievements, regarded him as far ahead of the field in his early career and still believe he will retire as the greatest ever, but do not claim ever to have been a passionate fan of his, as I have said perhaps shallowly having a prejudice in favour of compatriots as far as fanboyism goes.

I supported Nicky for the 2006 championship because I also like an underdog and because I had followed him and become a fan of his during his US superbike career, these races being replayed in Australia at the time. I thought the reaction from some of Rossi's fans to Nicky's 2006 title win was ridiculous, and my view was solidified by the substantially greater whining about Stoner winning the next year. Like Jumkie, what I find rather rich is fans of Valentino of all riders complaining about other riders having bike advantages. I of course acknowledge that part of the order of things in GP bike racing is that the best rides usually go to the best riders, and that Valentino has certainly contributed to the quality of the bikes he has ridden.

Jumkie said:

Rossi didn't have it, frankly my contention has always been he never did. Tire change this year and suddenly Marc starts crashing Rossi starts winning. Yes suddenly, because the previous 4 years he had managed only 3 races, all anomalies, rain and crashes. This year 4 (shelving the Marc crashes). Very little to do with Burgess more to do with Dorna tires.

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Interesting thought, what if the Repsol Honda problems were all down to the tires? Based on last year's tire construct, the bike should have performed in a similar way to last season's bike in terms of predictability...however once the season got going, alterations were slowly made to the tires in an effort to subtly get VR up front to challenge, and the changes were enough to upset the entire balance of the Honda. You're designing bikes based around a control tire...only something could go wrong if the control tire suddenly starts er, shall we say, "developing new characteristics." The Honda was a consistent performer from 2011 thru 2014, and then suddenly 2015, it turns into a .... show and meanwhile, the guy who was a midfielder/backmarker for two of those years, and just a back of the front pack guy for two more, suddenly is a legit contender.

This is how they should identify the tires. During the SNS Era (and now the SNS 2.0 era). This way when Rossi crosses the line or has supposedly found something we can all point to the obvious ........ advantage.

JPSLotus said:

Interesting thought, what if the Repsol Honda problems were all down to the tires? Based on last year's tire construct, the bike should have performed in a similar way to last season's bike in terms of predictability...however once the season got going, alterations were slowly made to the tires in an effort to subtly get VR up front to challenge, and the changes were enough to upset the entire balance of the Honda. You're designing bikes based around a control tire...only something could go wrong if the control tire suddenly starts er, shall we say, "developing new characteristics." The Honda was a consistent performer from 2011 thru 2014, and then suddenly 2015, it turns into a .... show and meanwhile, the guy who was a midfielder/backmarker for two of those years, and just a back of the front pack guy for two more, suddenly is a legit contender.

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A similar thing happened in 2012 if you remember. The tyre changed mid way through the season and affected the Honda's, especially Stoner's. I do wonder how much of that was done to try and help 'Ducati'...

#22 said:

A similar thing happened in 2012 if you remember. The tyre changed mid way through the season and affected the Honda's, especially Stoner's. I do wonder how much of that was done to try and help 'Ducati'...

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That's right, so it's not as if the entire thing would be unprecedented in the overall scheme of MotoGP with Bridgestone as the sole supplier.

Kind of makes you wonder what might have been had VR stuck it out with Ducati. I bet Dorna would have moved heaven and earth to get the rules adjusted in favor of Ducati. Whether they would have won a title is another story, but I bet we aren't into 2015 with the chance of seeing a Ducati rider actually match the last best points finish on a Ducati when CS finished 4th in 2010.

michaelm said:

I have already said that Stoner imo lacked what it took, both in terms of motivation, and likelihood of remaining sufficiently healthy given his extreme riding style, to succeed into his mid to late 30s as Rossi has. Of course, part of his motivational problem would seem to have been a belief that Dorna was not desirous of, and perhaps prepared to thwart, a Rossi- or Doohan (his idol)-like run of success from him, even for the factory Honda team. Matters were likely more complicated than this, but I can understand why he formed that view, and as I have previously said to Jumkie it is a truism that being paranoid doesn't necessarily imply that everyone isn't after you.
.

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I'm sure a sudden weight change to the rules disrupting the balance and therefore handling of the RCV played a part in advancing this notion that Dorna were out to .... him. Wait, remind me who would have benefited from such a change? Contrast that with this year, a phantom "decline" of the RCV (no no, not a legislated one) and it's cost poor Marc his championship!

Come on Mike, get mad. Why have u ignored my question to entertain what the records may have looked like if the tables were turned? You base Rossi's greatness on equipment enhancing advantage, documented, then conclude he us awesome because he beat others who rode on suspect tires not to mention outright lopsided parity? Get over the Ducati was a rocketship theory, that ........ has been debunked. By Rosie no less.

I don't know what the big deal is you guys. You can get sns rubber anywhere. I get mine at wallgreens. Everyone can use them, its just most chose not too.

http://motogpforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11332&stc=1&d=1445438300s

JPSLotus said:

That's right, so it's not as if the entire thing would be unprecedented in the overall scheme of MotoGP with Bridgestone as the sole supplier.

Kind of makes you wonder what might have been had VR stuck it out with Ducati. I bet Dorna would have moved heaven and earth to get the rules adjusted in favor of Ducati. Whether they would have won a title is another story, but I bet we aren't into 2015 with the chance of seeing a Ducati rider actually match the last best points finish on a Ducati when CS finished 4th in 2010.

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I don't think you need to imagine. Just look back to 2008. That set ( actually reinforced a previous) precedent. What happened? The tires dramatically change in a context of Rossi WHINING that he would QUIT (ah the irony...is this the proper use of "irony & facts" Kropo?) if he couldn't compete in what he blamed as inferior tires (ahh the irony ). The tires coincidently change. Casey Stoner the reigning world champion requests to use 2007 tires-- astonishingly similar to Marquez requesting the previous year's chassis. Except Casey Stoner's request is denied. Coincidence? Let's take a look at the rules changes what happened? Suddenly the engine "chassis" system becomes a liability for Ducati over new rules on engine limits. Detrimental to ONLY Ducati. Enter the single tire/spec tire debacle. Ducati wanted to continue the tire war, knowing perhaps this was their best chance to compete, and requested to work exclusively with Michelin --the "inferior" tire company. Request DENIED.

Here is another thing I find interesting and fascinating. When I connect the dots as I have above it's considered imaginative and conspiracy (at best). But take a look at the article entitled 'the decline of the Honda'. With the respect due to Kropo, you will notice that facts are peppered with connecting of dots. Crutchlow and Bautista's experience projected to a Marquez implicating, actually more specifically, a RCV implication. Even in the comments section of that piece we had another fantastic and respected journalist (Dennis Noyes) connecting dots about Marc's historical and statistical performance (facts) to project assertions about the RCV. Not to mention the contradictory statements by HRC principals vs their rider.

I don't think you have to imagine what might have happened if Rossi had stayed at Ducati. All you need to do is look at what actually happened! Rossi was bailed out of Ducati--problem fixed. I was "calm".

Jumkie said:

Was that before or after you insinuated I was "stupid" and "delusional"? Haha , czech the time stamps homie. Oops, Dr. Thumpa

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Don't recall calling you stupid. Not my style. Here was my quote: " If you don't think a championship would help Lorenzo's mental state in future seasons, you're delusional."

Rossi didn't have it, frankly my contention has always been he never did.

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...and this proves that you're quite delusional.

yzthumpa said:

Don't recall calling you stupid. Not my style. Here was my quote: " If you don't think a championship would help Lorenzo's mental state in future seasons, you're delusional."


...and this proves that you're quite delusional.

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Lorenzo already has 2 titles, and if he is still a headcase, why would a third title even change this?

It's not.

Lorenzo is who he is at this point, fast rider who cannot get out of his own way at times.

Was that before or after you insinuated I was stupid?

yzthumpa said:

Don't recall calling you stupid. Not my style. Here was my quote: " If you don't think a championship would help Lorenzo's mental state in future seasons, you're delusional."


...and this proves that you're quite delusional.

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Funny thing about forums, you can go back and quote people (provided they haven't edited out significant portions of a post ).

yzthumpa said:

I'll assume that at this point, especially given your post count, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Because you can't possibly be this stupid.

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Are u familiar with the word 'insinuate"? Oh of course you are, you've been telling us what a mensa genius you qualify to be. Haha. my friend (can I call you that, since you pointed out your discovery I have no friends here) can you be my first friend?

Jumkie said:

Are u familiar with the word 'insinuate"? Oh of course you are, you've been telling us what a mensa genius you qualify to be. Haha. my friend (can I call you that, since you pointed out your discovery I have no friends here) can you be my first friend?

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I thought we already were. Two peas in a pod.

And I didn't "tell" you all what a genius I was - someone "asked" and I just provided the factual answer.:happy:
And I thought I was backing you up by saying you can't possibly be this stupid. You can't, right?

By the way, what happened to the unstoppable Stoner in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2012?

I'm just the breath of fresh air this forum needed.

michaelm said:

Similarly Dr MichaelM to you boy.

As I recall the contention was mainly that your post was stupid, which is possible however intelligent you consider yourself to be or may in fact be, and you certainly got snarky about the likelihood of my qualification for Mensa based on no information. I have a long term view quite independent of your neophyte posting that Mensa, for which I would definitely qualify, is a .... and a refuge for those with little else to recommend them other than an IQ test result.

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It's okay to be jealous of me. Most are. Just don't allow your tone to make it so obvious.:unsure:

yzthumpa said:

I'm just the breath of fresh air this forum needed.

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Yeah, if you consider smog good quality air.