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MotoGP: 2015 Round 16 - Pramac Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix (SPOILERS)
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Jumjum, you are getting worked by a noob. Maybe you should do what Casey would do and quit.
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........ Well in my defense, he is a lot smarter than stupid me. Perhaps your right, I should take a hiatus.
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What I have always found interesting about Rossi's career is how his success was dependent also on the quality of competition. He sort of lucked out coming into MotoGP when the series was in a transition from the Doohan era to the new competitive era. It took about 10 years from Doohan's retirement for MotoGP to get a crop of riders that were were similar in some regards to the Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey, etc. period.
Rossi did not get pushed in any real sense till Stoner showed up. Even then, we still had to get Pedrosa up to spec, and the arrival of Jorge Lorenzo to really see what Rossi was made of. I would argue that if Marco Simoncelli doesn't get killed in 2011, that would have added another high level talent to the mix, and then the arrival of MM in 2013, would have added even further competition.
Just for the sake of discussion, Stoner retires in 2012.
But right now Rossi would have to be competing against: Lorenzo, Marquez, Pedrosa, Simoncelli, and throw in Maniac Joe here and there. Of course that assumes that Rossi would still have been at Yamaha. For all we know, perhaps Yamaha decides that Simoncelli would have been worth taking for 2013?
Point is, a large part of Rossi's success was dependent on not having true next level talent on the other factory bikes. It is what it is, and he took advantage of it as he should have. Would you really consider Sete or Biaggi as being on the same level as Lorenzo or MM?
Rossi did not get pushed in any real sense till Stoner showed up. Even then, we still had to get Pedrosa up to spec, and the arrival of Jorge Lorenzo to really see what Rossi was made of. I would argue that if Marco Simoncelli doesn't get killed in 2011, that would have added another high level talent to the mix, and then the arrival of MM in 2013, would have added even further competition.
Just for the sake of discussion, Stoner retires in 2012.
But right now Rossi would have to be competing against: Lorenzo, Marquez, Pedrosa, Simoncelli, and throw in Maniac Joe here and there. Of course that assumes that Rossi would still have been at Yamaha. For all we know, perhaps Yamaha decides that Simoncelli would have been worth taking for 2013?
Point is, a large part of Rossi's success was dependent on not having true next level talent on the other factory bikes. It is what it is, and he took advantage of it as he should have. Would you really consider Sete or Biaggi as being on the same level as Lorenzo or MM?
Kancer is going to have to respond. i'm sure he finds this post intelligent
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You can only beat the guys they throw in the ring with you. Larry Holmes syndrome.
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Certainly.
But you can also assess quality of competition as well.
Sort of like Floyd Mayweather.
He might be 49-0, but the quality of many of those wins is missing.
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Agree. But in VRs case the other guy had to fight with lead boots. Are u familiar with Saturday Night Specials? It's a fact. A fact that has been glossed over for years. So how many doctored titles equal a legitimate one?
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Or better, how many nonsense repetitions are needed to equal a fact?
This idea of yours will not become true just by repeating it over and over like a mantra, Jum. You know well that Michelin's so called SNS were for several riders, not just for Mr. Rossi. Why? Because Michelin had always to treat Honda and Yamaha equal: FACT.
They did mistreat Ducati, that then went the Bridgestone way and, ironically, were instrumental in Michelin's eventual defeat and demise.
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...and Stoner's results in his 2 years on the factory Honda were no better (and maybe worse) than his first 2 years on the factory Ducati. Implications that the Duc has always been a duck are ridiculous. They had a good bike that suited Stoner well - they just took it in the wrong direction in subsequent years. The Yamaha wasn't exactly setting the world on fire when Vale first arrived there...
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Ah yes, an objective take, do yourself a favor, read Randy Mamola's report on the subject. The fact Michelin had a tier system should give you pause. Your argument is, yeah they treated some with preferential treatment, but they had enough integrity to give the good stuff out equally while they ...... over the other guys. Haha got it.Or better, how many nonsense repetitions are needed to equal a fact?
This idea of yours will not become true just by repeating it over and over like a mantra, Jum. You know well that Michelin's so called SNS were for several riders, not just for Mr. Rossi. Why? Because Michelin had always to treat Honda and Yamaha equal: FACT.
They did mistreat Ducati, that then went the Bridgestone way and, ironically, were instrumental in Michelin's eventual defeat and demise.
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The Ducati was so good that nobody other than Stoner could win on it. Like that kinda good? The GP06 was a sorted machine, but the GP07 and on was a nightmare. Melandri, who was good enough to come runner up in the championship was sent to a shrink after riding the Duc. You're citing scoreboard to an obvious lopsided playing field. The scoreboard comforts you because you fail to understand how it got so.
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Apparently it was good enough to keep him around for 4 years...
And I'm not arguing that he isn't a phenomenal rider who would still contend if he came back today - but he is not in the discussion for greatest ever. One only has to look at what Vale is doing now at age 36 to settle that argument. If you want to talk about that Marquez kid in another few years though....
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