Too bad we have to wait so long to find out. WTF am I going to do until then...oh ya that unfinished washroom and a house full of trim to paint...great.
Joined Mar 2005
7K Posts | 20+
Woody Creek
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Jul 21 2008, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The more TC you use, the more the power is sucked out. You will go nowhere with TC turned up.
That's a bit of a big brush to be used. Some bikes work better with more TC, the Ducati for example is better set up with more TC as exampled by Stoner's heavier use of the tool than Melandri's and their difference in the standings.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A week ago we were going through the pre race threads pondering the question how is anyone going to beat Casey. My answer, somewhat stupidly I guess was brake later and get on the gas earlier. The notion that we had to slow the bikes down, or ban Ducati or whatever was seen as the answer by the marvellously myopic.
My somewhat parsimonious response was seen as a little too simplistic however it is a viable answer and as much as we try to complicate racing it’s about whittling every little advantage you can from a given situation until the sum of your advantages is greater than the other guys. Valentino did this sooooo well and as No.1 Casey fan I wholeheartedly agree he (Vale) did nothing wrong and everything right during the race.
Casey may have (none of us are true soothsayers) won if he hadn’t run off; then again Valentino may have kept the pressure up. Valentino knows a hell of a lot and is the master but Casey can learn some of this and at the end of the day he is fast. Real fast. Easier to teach a fast guy other things than it is to teach a slow guy how to go fast.
The bike and rider package for the Yamaha and Ducati look very tight. The Yamaha was on average speeds less than 1km slower than the Ducati and Casey had the bike squirming trying to change his lines to cope with Vale.
Casey will win by adapting; Vale will win by adapting to those adaptations. And so on and so forth infinitum...
I’m amazed at all the negativity; this is potentially the best year for a championship and racing in the four stroke era and we get to see it. It is going to be close and it will go to the next level, as the race at Laguna did the other day.
As for Casey being a sook or whatever, he’s young, he also needs someone like Doohan to coach him which I don’t think he’s getting, I mean, who is the racer that is his mentor like Doohan mentored Valentino or Alberto is mentoring Dani? Casey had Lucio and Alberto for brief periods but is generally isolated from that level of experience. Someone like Mick would have told him that he is playing the bigs and suck it up. He needs an old head and I am hoping that Sete and maybe Nicki can teach him that side of the sport because he needs to brush up on it.
I am casting a bit of blame at his team for allowing some of this and not providing the necessary “psychosocial” support that many of the young racers (such as Dani and Vale) had or have on a regular basis.
That said this is not the U.S election and in a previous post I lampooned getting Barack Obama to ride the Ducati due to it being able to ride itself (yawn) and the need for personality - charming ....... that Obama... Like him or not Casey has the skills and is here to stay and if he never wins the personality or miss congeniality award then it really won't matter that much when he has a number of world championships on the shelf. And it is fair to say, it will be more than the 2007 championship given the state of play at the present time. He is the only real challenger to Valentino and can win races with greater ease than any of Valentino’s prior adversaries.
I do ask you to consider this. I quote Vince Lombardi who said, “show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser”. The sport right now needs Casey to challenge Valentino as much as the sport needs Valentino. Without Casey this would be a Valentino parade, followed by Dani, then Jorge and the fire that everyone has in them right now and the virulence displayed on this post would be little more than literary (and racing) narcolepsy. Vale wins, Vale wins, Vale wins…. and that is worse than a Casey led parade because it represents too many years without change.
Casey made Vale take it to the next level and I don’t care who wins but that is the edge of your seat racing the series needed.
Long live Vale, long live Casey and it will be "long live motogp" as a result.
Top post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think you'll find Nicky teaching Stoner anything, he is direct competition.
I think you might be surprised. I remember when Casey was a rookie the two of them were inseparable at interviews, meetings, any mandatory event you could always find them together. That sounds a bit Puig-ish, doesn't it? Anyways, point is, as was made earlier, that it won't be so much coaching as it will be Stoner learning by example. And with any luck, there will be some sharing of information between the two.
That's a bit of a big brush to be used. Some bikes work better with more TC, the Ducati for example is better set up with more TC as exampled by Stoner's heavier use of the tool than Melandri's and their difference in the standings.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 03:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A week ago we were going through the pre race threads pondering the question how is anyone going to beat Casey. My answer, somewhat stupidly I guess was brake later and get on the gas earlier. The notion that we had to slow the bikes down, or ban Ducati or whatever was seen as the answer by the marvellously myopic.
My somewhat parsimonious response was seen as a little too simplistic however it is a viable answer and as much as we try to complicate racing it’s about whittling every little advantage you can from a given situation until the sum of your advantages is greater than the other guys. Valentino did this sooooo well and as No.1 Casey fan I wholeheartedly agree he (Vale) did nothing wrong and everything right during the race.
Casey may have (none of us are true soothsayers) won if he hadn’t run off; then again Valentino may have kept the pressure up. Valentino knows a hell of a lot and is the master but Casey can learn some of this and at the end of the day he is fast. Real fast. Easier to teach a fast guy other things than it is to teach a slow guy how to go fast.
The bike and rider package for the Yamaha and Ducati look very tight. The Yamaha was on average speeds less than 1km slower than the Ducati and Casey had the bike squirming trying to change his lines to cope with Vale.
Casey will win by adapting; Vale will win by adapting to those adaptations. And so on and so forth infinitum...
I’m amazed at all the negativity; this is potentially the best year for a championship and racing in the four stroke era and we get to see it. It is going to be close and it will go to the next level, as the race at Laguna did the other day.
As for Casey being a sook or whatever, he’s young, he also needs someone like Doohan to coach him which I don’t think he’s getting, I mean, who is the racer that is his mentor like Doohan mentored Valentino or Alberto is mentoring Dani? Casey had Lucio and Alberto for brief periods but is generally isolated from that level of experience. Someone like Mick would have told him that he is playing the bigs and suck it up. He needs an old head and I am hoping that Sete and maybe Nicki can teach him that side of the sport because he needs to brush up on it.
I am casting a bit of blame at his team for allowing some of this and not providing the necessary “psychosocial” support that many of the young racers (such as Dani and Vale) had or have on a regular basis.
That said this is not the U.S election and in a previous post I lampooned getting Barack Obama to ride the Ducati due to it being able to ride itself (yawn) and the need for personality - charming ....... that Obama... Like him or not Casey has the skills and is here to stay and if he never wins the personality or miss congeniality award then it really won't matter that much when he has a number of world championships on the shelf. And it is fair to say, it will be more than the 2007 championship given the state of play at the present time. He is the only real challenger to Valentino and can win races with greater ease than any of Valentino’s prior adversaries.
I do ask you to consider this. I quote Vince Lombardi who said, “show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser”. The sport right now needs Casey to challenge Valentino as much as the sport needs Valentino. Without Casey this would be a Valentino parade, followed by Dani, then Jorge and the fire that everyone has in them right now and the virulence displayed on this post would be little more than literary (and racing) narcolepsy. Vale wins, Vale wins, Vale wins…. and that is worse than a Casey led parade because it represents too many years without change.
Casey made Vale take it to the next level and I don’t care who wins but that is the edge of your seat racing the series needed.
Long live Vale, long live Casey and it will be "long live motogp" as a result.
Top post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think you'll find Nicky teaching Stoner anything, he is direct competition.
I think you might be surprised. I remember when Casey was a rookie the two of them were inseparable at interviews, meetings, any mandatory event you could always find them together. That sounds a bit Puig-ish, doesn't it? Anyways, point is, as was made earlier, that it won't be so much coaching as it will be Stoner learning by example. And with any luck, there will be some sharing of information between the two.
And Hayden has not had the equipment to compete with Rossi lately so he will add a new dimension to the front group if he can adapt to the Ducati. Would be quite a team I think.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 22 2008, 03:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Naturally, the set up plays a role, but the major advantage Casey was capitalizing on is very specific in terms of input and Rossi found the ..... in the armor. The Ducati needed a rider not afraid to wide open the throttle and let the ECU control the rear wheel...very brave at 100+ banked at 60 degrees.
Remember M, in 2007 the Duc had more raw HP, not a better TC system. In early 08 the racing was more equal, because the Japs had closed the power gap, BUT....in recent races Ducati wised up and advanced the TC system while everyone else was trying for HP so they are reaping what they sewed.
Given that rossi's race strategy was basically to block stoner(and a good strategy it was) do you think this might have had some influence on how he applied the throttle as well?.
Remember M, in 2007 the Duc had more raw HP, not a better TC system. In early 08 the racing was more equal, because the Japs had closed the power gap, BUT....in recent races Ducati wised up and advanced the TC system while everyone else was trying for HP so they are reaping what they sewed.
Given that rossi's race strategy was basically to block stoner(and a good strategy it was) do you think this might have had some influence on how he applied the throttle as well?.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 22 2008, 01:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Of course Nicky doesn't need to willingly teach him anything, but Casey will be able to learn a lot from observation.
learn what?
learn what?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (an4rew @ Jul 22 2008, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>learn what?
How to deal with the attention
How to deal with the attention
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 22 2008, 11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Given that rossi's race strategy was basically to block stoner(and a good strategy it was) do you think this might have had some influence on how he applied the throttle as well?.
That's my point M. By blocking Stoner, he couldn't open the throttle as he usually can causing the TC to sputter the rear.
That's my point M. By blocking Stoner, he couldn't open the throttle as he usually can causing the TC to sputter the rear.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 23 2008, 02:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That's my point M. By blocking Stoner, he couldn't open the throttle as he usually can causing the TC to sputter the rear.
I think we are arguing at cross purposes a little (probably my fault, not yours), perhaps because we have both replied to other peoples posts in this thread also. My main point is that whether or not casey uses tc more than others, I don't think it is true to say ducati have an electronics advantage; I think by now everyone has similar electronics hardware and very likely similar software and could use the same amount of tc as casey if they so chose. That using tc may give the ducati more advantage could very well be true; the ducati reputedly has a very peaky engine and seems close to unrideable even with tc whilst the yamaha for instance seems much more agile intrinsically. I find it hard to be sure how much the different characteristics of the bikes are contributed to by chassis design, engine characteristics and electronics respectively especially given the different riding styles of the riders.
Someone earlier in the thread cited apparent earlier application of the throttle when behind as proof that casey was using more tc; whilst he may well be doing so the point of my most recent previous post which maybe shouldn't have been addressed to you was that the fact rossi was trying to block him in many corners may have influenced when rossi applied the throttle.
You may well be right that rossi +/- jb are due even more praise for their tactical nous than they have already received by identifying a weakness with the way the ducati's throttle control/tc works. However even if it does allow full throttle application in practically any situation, concerning which I have never seen proof, it seems unlikely that if the electronics are as sophisticated as you and others say they would set it up to only operate this way. I don't know much if anything about this technology and could easily be wrong.
I am not having a go at you. I do like an argument, but I have no personal rancour towards you and have no problem with you or anyone else being a rossi fan; as I have said previously it is eminently reasonable to be so. I find your posts on technical matters interesting as you seem to be knowledgeable, certainly compared to me anyway.
I think we are arguing at cross purposes a little (probably my fault, not yours), perhaps because we have both replied to other peoples posts in this thread also. My main point is that whether or not casey uses tc more than others, I don't think it is true to say ducati have an electronics advantage; I think by now everyone has similar electronics hardware and very likely similar software and could use the same amount of tc as casey if they so chose. That using tc may give the ducati more advantage could very well be true; the ducati reputedly has a very peaky engine and seems close to unrideable even with tc whilst the yamaha for instance seems much more agile intrinsically. I find it hard to be sure how much the different characteristics of the bikes are contributed to by chassis design, engine characteristics and electronics respectively especially given the different riding styles of the riders.
Someone earlier in the thread cited apparent earlier application of the throttle when behind as proof that casey was using more tc; whilst he may well be doing so the point of my most recent previous post which maybe shouldn't have been addressed to you was that the fact rossi was trying to block him in many corners may have influenced when rossi applied the throttle.
You may well be right that rossi +/- jb are due even more praise for their tactical nous than they have already received by identifying a weakness with the way the ducati's throttle control/tc works. However even if it does allow full throttle application in practically any situation, concerning which I have never seen proof, it seems unlikely that if the electronics are as sophisticated as you and others say they would set it up to only operate this way. I don't know much if anything about this technology and could easily be wrong.
I am not having a go at you. I do like an argument, but I have no personal rancour towards you and have no problem with you or anyone else being a rossi fan; as I have said previously it is eminently reasonable to be so. I find your posts on technical matters interesting as you seem to be knowledgeable, certainly compared to me anyway.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for Casey being a sook or whatever, he’s young, he also needs someone like Doohan to coach him which I don’t think he’s getting, I mean, who is the racer that is his mentor like Doohan mentored Valentino or Alberto is mentoring Dani? Casey had Lucio and Alberto for brief periods but is generally isolated from that level of experience. Someone like Mick would have told him that he is playing the bigs and suck it up. He needs an old head and I am hoping that Sete and maybe Nicki can teach him that side of the sport because he needs to brush up on it.
IF anyone was to seek him out, have a bit of a chat, speak from experience and call it as he sees it ...
well my guess it will happen on a bike ride around Monte Carlo with another member of the Ducati family ... Troy Bayliss!
Personally I don't think he needs a mentor. However, Troy would be the ideal person for Casey to have a chat too if he wanted to float some ideas or to discuss race tactics!
IF anyone was to seek him out, have a bit of a chat, speak from experience and call it as he sees it ...
well my guess it will happen on a bike ride around Monte Carlo with another member of the Ducati family ... Troy Bayliss!
Personally I don't think he needs a mentor. However, Troy would be the ideal person for Casey to have a chat too if he wanted to float some ideas or to discuss race tactics!
Joined Jul 2008
2K Posts | 14+
Tweed Valley Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (krusty @ Jul 23 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>IF anyone was to seek him out, have a bit of a chat, speak from experience and call it as he sees it ...
well my guess it will happen on a bike ride around Monte Carlo with another member of the Ducati family ... Troy Bayliss!
Personally I don't think he needs a mentor. However, Troy would be the ideal person for Casey to have a chat too if he wanted to float some ideas or to discuss race tactics!
I agree with you totally nearly or nearly totally (hows that for conditional qualification) - I don't think Casey needs a riding racing mentor because he has that in the bag, he is the only real challenger to the crown held by Rossi. He did win last year rather convincingly.
Casey needs an old head to tell him how to navigate the off track contest, when to be noticed, when to chill and just slide between the cracks.
Mick Doohan spent a lot of time with Vale when he came up to 500's with Honda. Vale knew how to ride; Mick was the "elder statesman". Casey needs an elder statesman type influence.
I hate using racial or cultural stereotypes, mostly because they are wrong as often as right but Casey cannot pull off the idea of Italian passion in that Italian team. Real sports stars spend a lot of time creating an image (Valentino is the living embodiment of that). I do not believe Casey is well served in that area and he needs to define himself and promote what he is and isn’t as much as he needs to do his thing on the racetrack.
The motorcycling media and public lampoon Dani for having nothing at all, and you have to admit Valentino looks good in a sea of banality and naivety that presents itself as his opposition. I don’t think either of the riders is as bad as that but we have an expectation of stars that is often difficult for individuals to meet.
Casey needed someone to tell him the moment he stepped off the bike the other day to shake hands be nice and say nothing. The whole world would love Casey right now if he acknowledged, "I was beaten by the master - I'd like to be that good one day".
Being that good is only 50% about what you do on a racetrack and I honestly believe (evidenced by his rise and results - also evidenced by the vitriolic opposition to the obvious threat) Casey will be able to do the ride thing.
The other 50% is about selling it.
well my guess it will happen on a bike ride around Monte Carlo with another member of the Ducati family ... Troy Bayliss!
Personally I don't think he needs a mentor. However, Troy would be the ideal person for Casey to have a chat too if he wanted to float some ideas or to discuss race tactics!
I agree with you totally nearly or nearly totally (hows that for conditional qualification) - I don't think Casey needs a riding racing mentor because he has that in the bag, he is the only real challenger to the crown held by Rossi. He did win last year rather convincingly.
Casey needs an old head to tell him how to navigate the off track contest, when to be noticed, when to chill and just slide between the cracks.
Mick Doohan spent a lot of time with Vale when he came up to 500's with Honda. Vale knew how to ride; Mick was the "elder statesman". Casey needs an elder statesman type influence.
I hate using racial or cultural stereotypes, mostly because they are wrong as often as right but Casey cannot pull off the idea of Italian passion in that Italian team. Real sports stars spend a lot of time creating an image (Valentino is the living embodiment of that). I do not believe Casey is well served in that area and he needs to define himself and promote what he is and isn’t as much as he needs to do his thing on the racetrack.
The motorcycling media and public lampoon Dani for having nothing at all, and you have to admit Valentino looks good in a sea of banality and naivety that presents itself as his opposition. I don’t think either of the riders is as bad as that but we have an expectation of stars that is often difficult for individuals to meet.
Casey needed someone to tell him the moment he stepped off the bike the other day to shake hands be nice and say nothing. The whole world would love Casey right now if he acknowledged, "I was beaten by the master - I'd like to be that good one day".
Being that good is only 50% about what you do on a racetrack and I honestly believe (evidenced by his rise and results - also evidenced by the vitriolic opposition to the obvious threat) Casey will be able to do the ride thing.
The other 50% is about selling it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 22 2008, 10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A week ago we were going through the pre race threads pondering the question how is anyone going to beat Casey. My answer, somewhat stupidly I guess was brake later and get on the gas earlier. The notion that we had to slow the bikes down, or ban Ducati or whatever was seen as the answer by the marvellously myopic.
My somewhat parsimonious response was seen as a little too simplistic however it is a viable answer and as much as we try to complicate racing it’s about whittling every little advantage you can from a given situation until the sum of your advantages is greater than the other guys. Valentino did this sooooo well and as No.1 Casey fan I wholeheartedly agree he (Vale) did nothing wrong and everything right during the race.
Casey may have (none of us are true soothsayers) won if he hadn’t run off; then again Valentino may have kept the pressure up. Valentino knows a hell of a lot and is the master but Casey can learn some of this and at the end of the day he is fast. Real fast. Easier to teach a fast guy other things than it is to teach a slow guy how to go fast.
The bike and rider package for the Yamaha and Ducati look very tight. The Yamaha was on average speeds less than 1km slower than the Ducati and Casey had the bike squirming trying to change his lines to cope with Vale.
Casey will win by adapting; Vale will win by adapting to those adaptations. And so on and so forth infinitum...
I’m amazed at all the negativity; this is potentially the best year for a championship and racing in the four stroke era and we get to see it. It is going to be close and it will go to the next level, as the race at Laguna did the other day.
As for Casey being a sook or whatever, he’s young, he also needs someone like Doohan to coach him which I don’t think he’s getting, I mean, who is the racer that is his mentor like Doohan mentored Valentino or Alberto is mentoring Dani? Casey had Lucio and Alberto for brief periods but is generally isolated from that level of experience. Someone like Mick would have told him that he is playing the bigs and suck it up. He needs an old head and I am hoping that Sete and maybe Nicki can teach him that side of the sport because he needs to brush up on it.
I am casting a bit of blame at his team for allowing some of this and not providing the necessary “psychosocial” support that many of the young racers (such as Dani and Vale) had or have on a regular basis.
That said this is not the U.S election and in a previous post I lampooned getting Barack Obama to ride the Ducati due to it being able to ride itself (yawn) and the need for personality - charming ....... that Obama... Like him or not Casey has the skills and is here to stay and if he never wins the personality or miss congeniality award then it really won't matter that much when he has a number of world championships on the shelf. And it is fair to say, it will be more than the 2007 championship given the state of play at the present time. He is the only real challenger to Valentino and can win races with greater ease than any of Valentino’s prior adversaries.
I do ask you to consider this. I quote Vince Lombardi who said, “show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser”. The sport right now needs Casey to challenge Valentino as much as the sport needs Valentino. Without Casey this would be a Valentino parade, followed by Dani, then Jorge and the fire that everyone has in them right now and the virulence displayed on this post would be little more than literary (and racing) narcolepsy. Vale wins, Vale wins, Vale wins…. and that is worse than a Casey led parade because it represents too many years without change.
Casey made Vale take it to the next level and I don’t care who wins but that is the edge of your seat racing the series needed.
Long live Vale, long live Casey and it will be "long live motogp" as a result.
best post on here. it's not a case of how does he beat him as we all know he can. They're both head and shoulders above the rest (maybe excluding Pedro). We should just sit back and enjoy the rest of the season
My somewhat parsimonious response was seen as a little too simplistic however it is a viable answer and as much as we try to complicate racing it’s about whittling every little advantage you can from a given situation until the sum of your advantages is greater than the other guys. Valentino did this sooooo well and as No.1 Casey fan I wholeheartedly agree he (Vale) did nothing wrong and everything right during the race.
Casey may have (none of us are true soothsayers) won if he hadn’t run off; then again Valentino may have kept the pressure up. Valentino knows a hell of a lot and is the master but Casey can learn some of this and at the end of the day he is fast. Real fast. Easier to teach a fast guy other things than it is to teach a slow guy how to go fast.
The bike and rider package for the Yamaha and Ducati look very tight. The Yamaha was on average speeds less than 1km slower than the Ducati and Casey had the bike squirming trying to change his lines to cope with Vale.
Casey will win by adapting; Vale will win by adapting to those adaptations. And so on and so forth infinitum...
I’m amazed at all the negativity; this is potentially the best year for a championship and racing in the four stroke era and we get to see it. It is going to be close and it will go to the next level, as the race at Laguna did the other day.
As for Casey being a sook or whatever, he’s young, he also needs someone like Doohan to coach him which I don’t think he’s getting, I mean, who is the racer that is his mentor like Doohan mentored Valentino or Alberto is mentoring Dani? Casey had Lucio and Alberto for brief periods but is generally isolated from that level of experience. Someone like Mick would have told him that he is playing the bigs and suck it up. He needs an old head and I am hoping that Sete and maybe Nicki can teach him that side of the sport because he needs to brush up on it.
I am casting a bit of blame at his team for allowing some of this and not providing the necessary “psychosocial” support that many of the young racers (such as Dani and Vale) had or have on a regular basis.
That said this is not the U.S election and in a previous post I lampooned getting Barack Obama to ride the Ducati due to it being able to ride itself (yawn) and the need for personality - charming ....... that Obama... Like him or not Casey has the skills and is here to stay and if he never wins the personality or miss congeniality award then it really won't matter that much when he has a number of world championships on the shelf. And it is fair to say, it will be more than the 2007 championship given the state of play at the present time. He is the only real challenger to Valentino and can win races with greater ease than any of Valentino’s prior adversaries.
I do ask you to consider this. I quote Vince Lombardi who said, “show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser”. The sport right now needs Casey to challenge Valentino as much as the sport needs Valentino. Without Casey this would be a Valentino parade, followed by Dani, then Jorge and the fire that everyone has in them right now and the virulence displayed on this post would be little more than literary (and racing) narcolepsy. Vale wins, Vale wins, Vale wins…. and that is worse than a Casey led parade because it represents too many years without change.
Casey made Vale take it to the next level and I don’t care who wins but that is the edge of your seat racing the series needed.
Long live Vale, long live Casey and it will be "long live motogp" as a result.
best post on here. it's not a case of how does he beat him as we all know he can. They're both head and shoulders above the rest (maybe excluding Pedro). We should just sit back and enjoy the rest of the season
Joined Jun 2007
10K Posts | 1K+
Norah Head
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 23 2008, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Casey needed someone to tell him the moment he stepped off the bike the other day to shake hands be nice and say nothing. The whole world would love Casey right now if he acknowledged, "I was beaten by the master - I'd like to be that good one day".
This bit I find frightening ...... Casey so far has got where he is on being brash and thumbing the notion of a "master", I for one am glad of it ...... its a mentality that seems to be missing too much in motogp since the long runs by both Doohan then Rossi. I'd like every rider to have the arogance to not be mindless worshipers or scared to have a go ......... its been sadly missing for too long.
If you have the ..... with a pass on you or some form of riding ..... don't be a sheep and suck it up ...... say something about it to the rider concerned ..... no fan/spectator on earth can understand how it is during such riding encounters, so to sit back and play Mr Subservient is stage one of losing ( mindgame then races ) hopefully Stoner reacts to all the whinging about him commenting on the corkscrew incident the same way he does to the fans at Donnington who dis him .... ie. by winning more races.
Its got that sick these days when Rossi knocked De Puniet off at Assen .. some sick fan on here was suggesting that De Puniet turned around and saw it was Rossi and pulled his head in ....... how hopeless would a grid full of such riders be if such as the case.
Yu have to remember Rossi himself has had a very checkered past regarding complaints against other riders ...... some justified ( Biaggi and "the elbow" ) ...... imagine if Rossi had just sat back and said nothing ....... it would have been the beginning of his demise .....
Riders who want to win don't get there by being suck ups for the crowd ..... never has been like that.
Most of histories top riders have been willing to think like winners ... maybe its been Rossi's term for so long that many don't understand what they are seeing when they see it??
This bit I find frightening ...... Casey so far has got where he is on being brash and thumbing the notion of a "master", I for one am glad of it ...... its a mentality that seems to be missing too much in motogp since the long runs by both Doohan then Rossi. I'd like every rider to have the arogance to not be mindless worshipers or scared to have a go ......... its been sadly missing for too long.
If you have the ..... with a pass on you or some form of riding ..... don't be a sheep and suck it up ...... say something about it to the rider concerned ..... no fan/spectator on earth can understand how it is during such riding encounters, so to sit back and play Mr Subservient is stage one of losing ( mindgame then races ) hopefully Stoner reacts to all the whinging about him commenting on the corkscrew incident the same way he does to the fans at Donnington who dis him .... ie. by winning more races.
Its got that sick these days when Rossi knocked De Puniet off at Assen .. some sick fan on here was suggesting that De Puniet turned around and saw it was Rossi and pulled his head in ....... how hopeless would a grid full of such riders be if such as the case.
Yu have to remember Rossi himself has had a very checkered past regarding complaints against other riders ...... some justified ( Biaggi and "the elbow" ) ...... imagine if Rossi had just sat back and said nothing ....... it would have been the beginning of his demise .....
Riders who want to win don't get there by being suck ups for the crowd ..... never has been like that.
Most of histories top riders have been willing to think like winners ... maybe its been Rossi's term for so long that many don't understand what they are seeing when they see it??
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Jul 23 2008, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>4021:blah_postkarte_20.jpg]
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Something to say,Curve?
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Something to say,Curve?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 23 2008, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you have the ..... with a pass on you or some form of riding ..... don't be a sheep and suck it up ...... say something about it to the rider concerned
I think i agree. Rossi is Stoner's competitor and Casey needs to treat him as such.
I think i agree. Rossi is Stoner's competitor and Casey needs to treat him as such.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 23 2008, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This bit I find frightening ...... Casey so far has got where he is on being brash and thumbing the notion of a "master", I for one am glad of it ...... its a mentality that seems to be missing too much in motogp since the long runs by both Doohan then Rossi. I'd like every rider to have the arogance to not be mindless worshipers or scared to have a go ......... its been sadly missing for too long.
If you have the ..... with a pass on you or some form of riding ..... don't be a sheep and suck it up ...... say something about it to the rider concerned ..... no fan/spectator on earth can understand how it is during such riding encounters, so to sit back and play Mr Subservient is stage one of losing ( mindgame then races ) hopefully Stoner reacts to all the whinging about him commenting on the corkscrew incident the same way he does to the fans at Donnington who dis him .... ie. by winning more races.
Its got that sick these days when Rossi knocked De Puniet off at Assen .. some sick fan on here was suggesting that De Puniet turned around and saw it was Rossi and pulled his head in ....... how hopeless would a grid full of such riders be if such as the case.
Yu have to remember Rossi himself has had a very checkered past regarding complaints against other riders ...... some justified ( Biaggi and "the elbow" ) ...... imagine if Rossi had just sat back and said nothing ....... it would have been the beginning of his demise .....
Riders who want to win don't get there by being suck ups for the crowd ..... never has been like that.
Most of histories top riders have been willing to think like winners ... maybe its been Rossi's term for so long that many don't understand what they are seeing when they see it??
I agree fully with the above comment!!! Very well said and Rossi is a very aggressive and an uncompromising rider, he gives it but when he gets it in the same manner as he gives it ‘it’s a different matter’ let’s wait till the next race when CS will barrel him....I hope CS does the same to him, we’ve had enough of VR’s tactics!!! Let’s protest...lol...good dirty racing is good...bad dirty racing is bad and good and bad racing dosent hurt anyone...it's good for motogp
If you have the ..... with a pass on you or some form of riding ..... don't be a sheep and suck it up ...... say something about it to the rider concerned ..... no fan/spectator on earth can understand how it is during such riding encounters, so to sit back and play Mr Subservient is stage one of losing ( mindgame then races ) hopefully Stoner reacts to all the whinging about him commenting on the corkscrew incident the same way he does to the fans at Donnington who dis him .... ie. by winning more races.
Its got that sick these days when Rossi knocked De Puniet off at Assen .. some sick fan on here was suggesting that De Puniet turned around and saw it was Rossi and pulled his head in ....... how hopeless would a grid full of such riders be if such as the case.
Yu have to remember Rossi himself has had a very checkered past regarding complaints against other riders ...... some justified ( Biaggi and "the elbow" ) ...... imagine if Rossi had just sat back and said nothing ....... it would have been the beginning of his demise .....
Riders who want to win don't get there by being suck ups for the crowd ..... never has been like that.
Most of histories top riders have been willing to think like winners ... maybe its been Rossi's term for so long that many don't understand what they are seeing when they see it??
I agree fully with the above comment!!! Very well said and Rossi is a very aggressive and an uncompromising rider, he gives it but when he gets it in the same manner as he gives it ‘it’s a different matter’ let’s wait till the next race when CS will barrel him....I hope CS does the same to him, we’ve had enough of VR’s tactics!!! Let’s protest...lol...good dirty racing is good...bad dirty racing is bad and good and bad racing dosent hurt anyone...it's good for motogp
well said roo. you don't become a winner by bending over for your competition. it's actually nice to see someone NOT have as much respect for rossi as it seems stoner doesn't. (that make sense?)
for those of you who are saying doohan should be stoner's mentor, be careful what you ask for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qtQA_zjgrk
it's not like doohan is some over the top nice guy. he's a freakin aussie who calls it like he sees it.
for those of you who are saying doohan should be stoner's mentor, be careful what you ask for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qtQA_zjgrk
it's not like doohan is some over the top nice guy. he's a freakin aussie who calls it like he sees it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 23 2008, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think i agree. Rossi is Stoner's competitor and Casey needs to treat him as such.
COME ON GUYS!!....Barry, Tom, you have to be kidding. Please don't tell me you are blindly condoning Stoners unsportsmanlike conduct because someone was being aggressive? This isn't a ballroom dancing class or a high tea....its a ...... GP race....Stoner was pissed he lost and that's it....he should have kept his mouth shut and pitched the attitude.
COME ON GUYS!!....Barry, Tom, you have to be kidding. Please don't tell me you are blindly condoning Stoners unsportsmanlike conduct because someone was being aggressive? This isn't a ballroom dancing class or a high tea....its a ...... GP race....Stoner was pissed he lost and that's it....he should have kept his mouth shut and pitched the attitude.
Joined Jun 2008
2K Posts | 6+
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Rossi is a great rider no question. Stoner is getting his chance to prove how good he is in the class. If he bows to Rossi everytime he wants to pass him then what kind of respect do you think others would give him? I also believe that with this type of attitude Stoner has will give him the ability to make the race situation go in his favor. You also have to believe that even though there is a bit of animosity between Stoner and Rossi for the moment Rossi has to give him a bit of respect. SOrt of like how when Valentino first came into the sport and had to claw his way up to the top.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Doc 79 @ Jul 23 2008, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>COME ON GUYS!!....Barry, Tom, you have to be kidding. Please don't tell me you are blindly condoning Stoners unsportsmanlike conduct because someone was being aggressive? This isn't a ballroom dancing class or a high tea....its a ...... GP race....Stoner was pissed he lost and that's it....he should have kept his mouth shut and pitched the attitude.
I think if he has a problem it should primarily be raised in the safetey meetings rather than in public, for the sake of his own popularity. I don't think however he or any other serious competitor should be affraid to question Rossi's behaviour and i wont judge him for being a bit worked up at the end of a race (which he lost) and being in a mood. I think its good for the sport for him to talk straight and voice his opinions, if we condem moments like this we'll end up with the stale atmosphere of an F1 press conference.
I think if he has a problem it should primarily be raised in the safetey meetings rather than in public, for the sake of his own popularity. I don't think however he or any other serious competitor should be affraid to question Rossi's behaviour and i wont judge him for being a bit worked up at the end of a race (which he lost) and being in a mood. I think its good for the sport for him to talk straight and voice his opinions, if we condem moments like this we'll end up with the stale atmosphere of an F1 press conference.
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