Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017

moto vudu · Apr 7, 2017

michaelm said:
No, the objection is to sudden tyre delamination in any circumstance.

No, you don't take a tire that's specifically designed to be used only in soaking wet conditions and say it can't suddenly delaminate in any circumstance. Don't use something improperly or outside of it's intended purpose if you don't want sudden unintended results.

You strike me as the type of person that would use your laptop (plugged in) while taking a bath, then try to sue the manufacturer if you survive electrocution. "I should've never been suddenly electrocuted under any circumstance!!"

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

Vinaeles is fast right now. Tops the time sheets using the hard rear.

MdubSTYLIE · Apr 7, 2017

Vinales looking fast out of the box as usual. If we could teach Zarco what the white flag means in motogp he may have a good weekend.

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
MotoGP: The key to Pedrosa’s success - September 12, 2016

Dani Pedrosa suddenly rebounds from a rider struggling to make the top five, to winning the Misano MotoGP...how did this happen?

So you are back JKant, to continue arguing that anything which has ever happened in GP bike racing in the last 2 decades does not and cannot reflect in any way negatively on Valentino Rossi.

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

moto vudu said:
No, you don't take a tire that's specifically designed to be used only in soaking wet conditions and say it can't suddenly delaminate in any circumstance. Don't use something improperly or outside of it's intended purpose if you don't want sudden unintended results.

You strike me as the type of person that would use your laptop (plugged in) while taking a bath, then try to sue the manufacturer if you survive electrocution. "I should've never been suddenly electrocuted under any circumstance!!"

Again, provide examples of tyres delaminating suddenly, in any other circumstance other than this one instance which aids your denigration of Jorge Lorenzo, being regarded as other than a tyre failure, and provide anything from anyone of any repute, for which spin doctors employed by Michelin don't imo qualify, who regards the tyre delamination in the instance under discussion as being other than a tyre failure.

JKant · Apr 7, 2017

michaelm said:
So you are back JKant, to continue arguing that anything which has ever happened in GP bike racing in the last 2 decades does not and cannot reflect in any way negatively on Valentino Rossi.

Is it really that hard to debate an issue on its merits without the kneejerk tribalism? Or were the personal attacks intended to get me to quit (in which case you can be upfront about it)?

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Is it really that hard to debate an issue on its merits without the kneejerk tribalism?

So it is only your opponents that are guilty of knee jerk tribalism?

This is precisely my objection to you, having initially misjudged you as someone debating issues on their merits, and your arrogant assumption in regarding yourself as above tribalism and bias, something most of your opponents, and I in particular, don't claim, further compounds this.

JKant · Apr 7, 2017

michaelm said:
So it is only your opponents that are guilty of knee jerk tribalism?

This is precisely my objection to you, having initially misjudged you as someone debating issues on their merits, and your arrogant assumption in regarding yourself as above tribalism and bias, something most of your opponents, and I in particular, don't claim, further compounds this.

Well lets see now. I posted an article about Pedrosa's tyre preferences at Misano.

Most normal people would have either ignored that article if they felt it was irrelevant or pointed out factual inaccuracies in it or explained why it wasn't relevant.

Your go-to response, in contrast, was to attack me personally for having posted it.

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Well lets see now. I posted an article about Pedrosa's tyre preferences at Misano.

Most normal people would have either ignored that article if they felt it was irrelevant or pointed out factual inaccuracies in it or explained why it wasn't relevant.

Your go-to response, in contrast, was to attack me personally for having posted it.

See Birdman's post on a recent thread. He is a man who knows far more about GP bike racing than you or me or pretty much anyone on here except perhaps Povol, and he crystalised for me that nearly all your posts involve disagreement with anything which reflects in anyway negatively on Rossi, and precious little else. I don't like Rossi's behaviour towards most of his serious competitors over his career, or his latter day imo excessive influence in the sport, in regard to which I don't dissemble.

JKant · Apr 7, 2017

michaelm said:
See Birdman's post on a recent thread. He is a man who knows far more about GP bike racing than you or me or pretty much anyone on here except perhaps Povol, and he crystalised for me that nearly all your posts involve disagreement with anything which reflects in anyway negatively on Rossi, and precious little else. I don't like Rossi's behaviour towards most of his serious competitors over his career, or his latter day imo excessive influence in the sport, in regard to which I don't dissemble.

Do Birdman or Povol dispute what the Sportrider article says about Pedrosa's preferences vis a vis the front tyre?

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

Maybe the problem is that Michelin true to form and their past history can still only make tyres with a small operational range? I don't know but it's already looking like Michelin is going to .... up another season, they've already ...... up the first race by recommending that Honda riders use a certain tyre which they overbooked 4-5 laps in.

I'm sure that even if the Hondas(though I'm not convinced until I see or hear a quote from Pedrosa or Marquez, Michelin isn't exactly reputable when it comes to telling the truth) didn't ask for the old tyre back it would've been bought anyway because the yellow one requested it.

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Do Birdman or Povol dispute what the Sportrider article says about Pedrosa's preferences vis a vis the front tyre?

Neither has expressed an opinion as far as I am aware, but that does not change my opinion in regard to the motivation behind nearly all your posts, or your fairly transparent attempts to place yourself on a higher plane than other posters, something I find personally offensive, just as you apparently find my replies to you, which are deliberately absent of obfuscation, on this thread.

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Do Birdman or Povol dispute what the Sportrider article says about Pedrosa's preferences vis a vis the front tyre?

Pedrosa used a new soft tyre because he couldn't get the medium or hard to work. Well done, he was also the only one who could get the soft to work. Until there is a direct quote from Pedrosa saying he wanted the old hard tyre back(which he could never get to work) then there's no reason to believe it.

JKant · Apr 7, 2017

michaelm said:
Neither has expressed an opinion as far as I am aware, but that does not change my opinion in regard to the motivation behind nearly all your posts.

Right... so your post was intended as ad hominem attack with little relevance to the actual issue? Is this going to be a theme going forward?

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Right... so your post was intended as ad hominem attack which little relevance to the actual issue. Is this going to be a theme going forward?

Explain what one tyre choice that Pedrosa was able to make work once last year has to do with a old style soft and hard carcass being brought to Argentina? One time does not make a preferred choice or habit.

michaelm · Apr 7, 2017

JKant said:
Right... so your post was intended as ad hominem attack with little relevance to the actual issue? Is this going to be a theme going forward?

Quite possibly.

Are you considering doing anything other than making Rossi fanboy posts?

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

Goburt or whatever the .... his name is came out in a non English interview and said that there is 5 or 6 riders who requested the tyre change. They can't get their story straight and the number of riders is growing everyday. This was the same ....... company that totally destroyed some riders careers because they're refused to give them good tyres, the same company that said tyre delaminationa at Brno were 'normal' and not a failure of the tyres. What they say means .... all.

JKant · Apr 7, 2017

p4p1 said:
Explain what one tyre choice that Pedrosa was able to make work once last year has to do with a old style soft and hard carcass being brought to Argentina? One time does not make a preferred choice or habit.

Concrete evidence to support Michelin's statement about Pedrosa (along with Marquez, Crutchlow, Iannone) wanting to test and compare the new Michelin front with the one from last year (an idea which was being scoffed thus far). Take it as a datapoint if you will.

Pedrosa meanwhile chose the softest front with the new casing – for once his light weight and sweet style was an advantage because he was the only one of the top men able to run the grippy tyre – and he made everyone else look like they were stood still. In fact Misano was arguably the greatest of his 29 MotoGP wins because he came from further back than he’s ever come before: from sixth on lap one to successively dive past Marquez, Andrea Dovizioso, Maverick Vinales, Lorenzo and finally Valentino Rossi.

Like Lorenzo, Pedrosa usually wins by getting out front early on and clearing off because he enjoys a clear track more than a brawl with his rivals. This time he had way more speed into corners and easily thrust past everyone.

The new front worked especially well for him because the stiffer casing deflects less (squishes less, if you prefer) as the rider brakes and turns into the corner, when all the load is on the front tyre. This means the tyre retains a better profile, so the bike turns better, which is particularly important for Pedrosa, who can’t force the machine to turn by using his body weight, arms and legs.

- Mat Oxley

danski · Apr 7, 2017

p4p1 said:
Explain what one tyre choice that Pedrosa was able to make work once last year has to do with a old style soft and hard carcass being brought to Argentina? One time does not make a preferred choice or habit.

From Kropotkin's site.
There has also been a change to Michelin's front tire, and this should also help the Hondas. Before the first race at Qatar, only Valentino Rossi had been complaining about the new, slightly less stiff carcass the French tire maker brought for 2017, saying it was too soft and not supportive enough. After the first race, Dani Pedrosa, Cal Crutchlow, and Marc Márquez all backed Rossi's complaints, suffering issues with braking in Qatar.
Something old, something new
In response, Michelin brought a new front using the old carcass from last year, giving the riders a choice of four front tires in total. This new front gives more support, and should help riders who rely on the heavy braking. Michelin put the rise in complaints about the new front tire down to the fact that racing is different to testing. In a race, riders are pushing that little bit harder, demanding more from the front tire than they had done during testing.
Will you take notice now?

p4p1 · Apr 7, 2017

Take notice that they only bought a soft with a stiffer carcass to one of the hottest tracks? That Michelins story keeps changing? That the riders in question have no interviews stating that they want the old tyre back?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Honda that's harder on the brakes needs a tyre with a stiffer carcass but if Michelin could actually stick to a story that'd be great. I think we all know once Rossi complained a new tyre was on the way.

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