Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
- Start date
Because of common sense and not being a complete ....... moron. It's not normal for tyres to do what they did and according to everybody but you what happened was a tyre failure.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Just what I thought, what I said was never disproved. Using a soft wet tire on a dry line will always have a very high risk for delaminating, chunking, blow out, or any other form of tire failure.
Moron, butthead, stupid, poopyhead, ....., ...., ......., blah, blah blah. Whatever random insults or cuss words you need to hear let me know so I can help you understand.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
I've never lost a debate on this forum and I'm sure as hell not going to start today. :giggle:
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Argentina: Four Michelin fronts available in Argentina
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Still bleating that nonsense about improper use?
Michelin knew exactly what the riders were going to do and could have told race direction there was a safety issue at hand. All they had to do was tell them the tire was going delaminate if used as the teams intended to...because you have to prepare for the worst case scenario since you are playing with lives. Race direction would have withdrawn the tire had Michelin told them it was either structurally unsound based on the conditions, or that they couldn't guarantee what might happen while emphasizing the possibility for serious injury/death.
They did no such thing because the tires were not supposed to delaminate even if used in less than ideal conditions. No tire manufacturer would have allowed the riders to go out there knowing their tire selections, and if they knew the tires would delaminate because of those selections.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Lol @ Pedrosa requesting a tyre with a stiffer carcass. We all know that's ........, Cal maybe but DORNA/Michelin aren't spending any money on him, Marquez, maybe but he was pretty damn good in testing on the new tyre which he said he preferred. Last time a rider who wasn't Rossi asked for an old version of a tyre he was promptly turned down.
Do you mean in the same sense Rossi never ends up with the tyres he wants?. Sure.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
That's right... I'm undefeated.
Yes, you are a legend in your own mind.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
You just witnessed me knock out JPS with the crash.net article. He still hasn't recovered.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
You just witnessed me knock out JPS with the crash.net article. He still hasn't recovered.
The article that states that Pedrosa wanted a tyre with stiffer construction? :giggle:
Truthfully and I know you won't be able to see this that makes the article lose all credibility. Pedrosa like Lorenzo doesn't want a tyre with stiffer construction for his style. That why his only win last year was when he was able to make softer options work. Nobody, including Michelin, DORNA and probably LCR really cares what Cal wants. Marquez and Repsol may have power but he's already stated that he prefers the new tyre so it's unlikely, the new tyre gives him the ability for more corner speed something the Honda is now very good at and needs more than ever.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
And Firestone tyres fitted to Ford Explorers never blew up when inflated to the correct pressure. That didn't stop Ford and Firestone getting rinsed for millions of dollars in lawsuits because it is unacceptable, even when used slightly outside their ideal. A bridgestone wet wearing out at a linear rate due to overheating is nothing anywhere near the same as a tyre delaminating, especially on a motorcycle.
Not when they are designed and built correctly. Again as above, delaminating is a failure of the tyre carcass which is unacceptable and not the same as the tread layers. The tread should not become delaminated even in drying conditions.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Who are you to speak for Pedrosa? If the man said he wants a harder carcass tire at Argentina then that's what he wants.
Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
You're just regurgitating the same erroneous points that some of you attempted to make last year and I easily refuted all of them.
Ford & Firestone got sued for millions because they were aware of the high rates of failure and potential for rollovers and didn't inform the NHTSA. Ford chose to lower the recommended tire pressures so they wouldn't have to redesign the Explorer's suspension and track width to help prevent rollovers. They essentially tried to cover up the issue and this is no way related to racing rain tires failing when used on a dry track. Michelin isn't covering up anything and Michelin's Technical Racing Direction Nicolas Goubert is on recording stating "when you have over heating with a wet tire which is used on a dry surface, you lose chunks of compound".
You're now comparing Bridgestone HARD wet tires to Michelin SOFT wet tires. We've seen the Bridgestone hard wet tires begin to chunk when used on a dry track for too long. If a hard wet tire (which has been designed to tolerate some use in the dry) struggles to cope with heat and forces in the dry, it's common sense how vulnerable a soft wet tire will be under the same conditions. The soft wet is by far the tire that's most susceptible to failure when used outside of it's intending operating range. Soft wet tires are only designed to provide good traction in downpour conditions (Assen 2016). If you want better linear wear characteristics then you change the compound so it's no longer a soft, but an intermediate or a hard. I supposed to please some of you Michelin should just scrap the soft wet option and force all riders to ride on a hard wet tire under all wet conditions. Could be a safety issue in a downpour since the hard wets wont provide as much traction as a soft, but at least some of you will be happy watching the crashes because at least the tires will still be completely intact.
The delaminations experienced at Brno weren't a failure of the carcass, they were tread failures. On Lorenzo's tire it was the center water channel strip (that's likely held on with some sort of adhesive) that came off.
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Why are you the only person in the world who does not consider a tyre delamination to be a tyre failure?
Why a faulty tyre fails is a different question, almost invariably involving some kind of stress, such tyres not commonly failing instantaneously immediately after being placed on the rim.
Give examples of any other gp bike tyre delaminating in any conditions and this not being considered a tyre failure. If Michelin anticipated tyre delamination if the track became drier, why did they not warn the riders or have mandatory tyre changes as at PI 2013 when it became apparent before the race that the tyres could not last race distance in the prevailing conditions ie the abrasive newly laid track surface, and you still have never explained Dovi's tyre delaminating much earlier in the race in "suitable" conditions anyway.
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Joined Oct 2015
2K Posts | 827+
Texas
Nicolas Goubert - Michelin Racing Technical Director
Q: Once you lose the tread you’ve still got some depth of carcass. That is sufficient for safety?
NG: The thing is you’re not losing all the tread. So you’re always running on some of the compound basically. I need to say for the tire brand, when you have over heating with a wet tire which is used on a dry surface, you lose chunks of compound, but you continue running on what’s left. You can go like that for quite a while. If it’s mid-race, for example, people come in. If you get two or three more laps to do, you can do them. So, not concerned. Safety is not at stake.
