Totally different from Stoner in 2008 wanting to go back to the tyre he had in 2007 then, or wanting to keep the tyre of his preference in 2012 along with the new tyre which failed subsequently in race conditions as he predicted it would.
Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
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Totally different from Stoner in 2008 wanting to go back to the tyre he had in 2007 then, or wanting to keep the tyre of his preference in 2012 along with the new tyre which failed subsequently in race conditions as he predicted it would.
Okay, so if only a few isolated riders (or maybe Rossi alone) had an issue with the new front, only those few would run the actual race with the old 2016 tyre.
So... how many riders do you predict will run the race with the old front? (We can come back to this after the race on Sunday.)
None, which is what Michelin also predicted.
http://www.motoblog.it/post/855838/...utm_term=fp03&utm_campaign=Facebook:+Motoblog
Dress it up anyway you want, Rossi pretty much always gets his preference, and others don't. Even when a patently partisan, and it eventuated wrong, decision was made in 2012, that was fine according to those of your ilk because Dorna managed to engineer an unprecedented and never repeated rider vote, where rather unsurprisingly the riders voted against the tyre on which the defending world champion had dominated the previous season in favour of a different tyre.
The issue is not whether the tyre will suit Honda, but whether a tyre which suits Honda would have been returned to if it was not Rossi's preference. Certainly didn't happen with Stoner/Ducati in 2008, or in regard to even keeping a tyre which suited Honda along with a new tyre in 2012.
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Eh? Surely one at least (i.e Rossi)? And what of the Hondas? Pedrosa, Miller? Other hard brakers - Dovizioso, A.Espargaro?
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With the soft rubber that won't last race distance on a track that's known for torturing tyres?
I assumed they were bringing a stiffer medium, but if its a soft front the whole discussion is moot given that most (though not all) riders tend to favour the hard front.
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
So basically, this theory that the old carcass was brought to favour Rossi is much ado about nowt .
Original reports were saying that the hard option had been replaced along with an extra soft option. Michelin keeps changing their story so it's hard to know what's going on. But bringing only the soft option is/was ....... .........
Circuit Information
LENGTH: 4.8 km / 2.99 miles
CORNERS: 5 left - 9 right
WIDTH: 16 m. / 52.49 ft.
LONGEST STRAIGHT: 1076 m. / 3530.18 ft.
Circuit Record:
1'39.019
Valentino ROSSI (ITA)
2015
168.4
Average Speed (km/h)
334.1
Top Speed (km/h)
Total distance: 120.2 km / 74.8 miles
A long time ago, on a racetrack far, far away....
PRIX WARS
Episode V: The Ducati Empire Strikes Back
It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although the Hammerhead Fairing was never used and is believed destroyed, Imperial Race Direction troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden garage and pursued them across the paddock.
Evading the dreaded Imperial Motorcyclefleet, a group of freedom riders led by Maverick Vinales has established a new secret base on the remote ice city of Rio Hondo.
The evil lord Darth Rider, obsessed with finding young Vinales, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of South America....
INTERIOR: An ice cavern filled with liquid ice. A group of figures dressed in warm furs huddle around a cluttered table. Above its surface flickers a holographic display of race result data.
| Year | Rider | Position | Rider | Position | Rider | Position | Rider | Position |
| 2016 | Marc Marquez | 1st | Valentino Rossi | 2nd | Maverick Vinales | DNF | Jorge Lorenzo | DNF |
| 2015 | Marc Marquez | DNF | Valentino Rossi | 1st | Maverick Vinales | 10th | Jorge Lorenzo | 5th |
| 2014 | Marc Marquez | 1st | Valentino Rossi | 4th | Maverick Vinales | n/a | Jorge Lorenzo | 3rd |
Rossi: You see? The M1 is, ah, "good"? At this track. I have the two podiums and finish the 1 and 2. So I think we can be okay here.
Marc: (Leaning against the wall with a big grin) The M1 is okay, but the Millenium RC is going to be hard to beat. Forget the Kessel run, are you seeing the two first places? I got this.
Rossi: Don't underestimate the power of the Pace. It is, ah, the will to finish and persevere.
Marc: I'm not going to put my faith in that hokey nonsense.
Vinales: Is anybody going to explain why we're wearing winter jackets in freaking South America?
Marc: I wasn't using any mystical force in those races, and I'm sure not going to start now. And as for these aerodynamic tricks...
Vinales: No, really, it's effin' hot! What's the deal?
Rossi: The Pace runs through us all, even you Marques. If you understood that better, perhaps you wouldn't have crashed in '14.
Marc: Still beat you last year.
Vinales: (Under his breath) Eff you guys. I'm taking this off. There's a freaking river running through the room and girls in bikinis over in the grotto.
INTERIOR: Suddenly the cave is shaken as it comes under fire.
Marc: Race Direction has found us!
Rossi: I thought that we would be safe by hiding the aerodynamics in the side fairings. Quickly, we must escape.
Marc: I'm getting out in the Millenium RC. Mav, get out on track and hold them off. Wait, didn't Obi-wan die in the first movie?
Rossi: Well we skipped that scene and....
INTERIOR: Rossi is crushed by a falling boulder as the rest rush out. Darth Rider enters the room and surveys the damage as an engine fires. He enters a hidden garage surrounded by troops just as the Millenium RC races away.
EXTERIOR: Vinales sees the RC race away from the cockpit his M1 Wing fighter from another corner of the paddock. He is about to leave when a voice emerges from the darkness.
Darth Rider: The Pace is with you Vinales, but you're not a Champion yet.
Vinales: (Turns to face him and fires up his blue M1)
Darth Rider: (Ignites his sinister red Ducati).
EXTERIOR: The pair of riders race down pit lane and onto the track. The bikes clash into each other as they jostle for position.
Darth: You have learned much young one.
Vinales: You'll find I'm full of surprises. (Slams on the brakes at the last possible second, cuts up the inside and forces Lorenzo wide to the lead).
Darth: Rossi has taught you well. You can control your late braking. Now release the rear wheel. Only your dirt tracking skill will defeat me.
EXTERIOR: The pair clash again and again as they make their way around the track. Vinales' hand becomes pinched in the lever hard.
Vinales: Aaaargh! (Runs off track. Manages to save the lowslide and nurse the bike back)
Darth: Mav, you do not yet realize your importance. Join me at Ducati, and I will complete your training. I saw the way you lit up the rear tire in Qatar, forcing the bike to bend to your will. Together, with our combined strength on track, we can re-define the Desmocedici, end this destructive conflict and bring order to the paddock.
Vinales: I'll never join you!
Darth: If you only knew the power of the Dark Slide! Rossi never told you what happened to your predecessor at Yamaha.
Vinales: He told me enough. He told me you had him kicked out!
Darth: No. I AM YOUR PREDECESSOR.
Vinales: No... That's not true. Nobody would leave the M1 for the Desmocedici. That's impossible!
Darth: Search your heart. You know it's true.
Vinales: (Pauses) Noooooo!
EXTERIOR: Vinales leaps from his bike in despair. He is grabbed in mid-air by a passing rebel motorcycle transport that whisks him to safety.
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Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
The factory Ducati's do not look good compared to their satellite machines.
Something is going on there...Lorenzo and Dovi might be better off on GP16's if they don't get that bike sorted out.
Vinales FP2 time won't much matter if he can't run that tire combo in the race...and it's probably doubtful anyone can run a soft tire for race distance. Still think MM will be the one to beat if the race as long as the race is hot and dry.
Something is going on there...Lorenzo and Dovi might be better off on GP16's if they don't get that bike sorted out.
Vinales FP2 time won't much matter if he can't run that tire combo in the race...and it's probably doubtful anyone can run a soft tire for race distance. Still think MM will be the one to beat if the race as long as the race is hot and dry.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
You're an ....., NO race tire should delaminate if used outside its parameters. It should wear out down to the carcass in quick fashion, but never should they come apart
Joined Nov 2015
2K Posts | 582+
A caravan on an island
It's the bonding between the carcass and the rubber that overheated, as a compound it has a melting point. If the tyre is used outside it's operating envelope it will reach temperatures that will cause the bond to fail thus losing tread. Only way out is to use the right tyre for the circumstances.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
I have done nothing except contest your assertion that it is perfectly acceptable for a potentially fatal failure (and that's what it is, a failure) of a tyre to occur just because it was used outside of it's optimal conditions. If the tyres had just worn down to the carcass quickly that is one thing. But even if they were used on a drying track, they should NOT have delaminated.
So it is your assertion that this:
Is worse than this?
If so, I'd suggest you go and ride a motorcycle at 200mph with a heavily worn (through structurally intact) tyre and a delaminated tyre. I guarantee the latter pitches you off first.
Well then your point frankly, is not share by 99.9% of the population. The bonding between the tyre and the carcass IS the integrity of the tyre. Where do you think they adjust the sidewall stiffness? And for you to use the term "only" to describe delaminating would probably put you at loggerheads with the likes of Lorenzo and Redding.
You've been trying to explain your interpretation and bias that chunking is worse than delaminating. Which frankly, it isn't. Regardless of the tyre compound.
Chunking isn't an anomaly no. But by your own words earlier, delaminating isn't the same thing. So I propose you go and find a race where on Bridgestones, multiple riders had to swap bikes or even retire before the flag to flag rule due to their Brigestone tyres delaminating.
Joined Oct 2008
6K Posts | 5K+
In Cider
So you're trying to say that no bonding medium ever invented can withstand a temperature of say 100 deg C? The failure had nothing to do with the binding material, it was a PROCESS failure, meaning an error in design/manufacturing.
Joined Mar 2015
2K Posts | 337+
Chertsey, Surrey, UK
Petrux is running pre release items that will go on the main bikes and look where he is. BTW the 17 bike is a lot better than last years.
Also judging by the efforts of everyone the soft/medium is a waste of time unless its a wet race.
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Joined Apr 2015
6K Posts | 5K+
NJ
Not if the tires came from the same batch and the manufacturing process had faults as it did in this case.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Ben Franklin
