Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017

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Crutchlow weighs in on the Marquez crash -

https://vimeo.com/212532070

What the hell is happening to Crashy's speech?! It's like one of those people that goes into a coma and wakes up talking Jamaican.

His phrasing was always a bit off and 'foreign sounding' but now it's the words and the language and everything. Is he doing an impersonation of Vale?!
 
What the hell is happening to Crashy's speech?! It's like one of those people that goes into a coma and wakes up talking Jamaican.



His phrasing was always a bit off and 'foreign sounding' but now it's the words and the language and everything. Is he doing an impersonation of Vale?!



He sounds like Joey Barton when he went to Marseille. Steve McClaren did a similar thing whilst managing in Holland too [emoji1]
 
What the hell is happening to Crashy's speech?! It's like one of those people that goes into a coma and wakes up talking Jamaican.

His phrasing was always a bit off and 'foreign sounding' but now it's the words and the language and everything. Is he doing an impersonation of Vale?!



Hanging with Jack to much

Watch interviews with Miller and there are similarities
 
Good post buddy, just one thing. Marc changed to a medium rear at the last minute. I think it's possible he was attempting to gap everyone so he could manage that lead if the tyre dropped off at the end. Unfortunately we'll never know and we were denied the expected battle between Marc and Maverick too!

I missed that. Possibly - and he would have been mindful of that after last year, (albeit through opting for the soft).

Knowing that, I'm inclined to agree with you. I doubt that it was because Maverick was in his head, but he certainly would have been aware of his race pace. It's not about Márquez feeling pressure - we know that he's impervious to that. It's about how Viñales responds to his team mate in particlular, (who I suspect is going to be Captain Consistency this year) and allied to that, the increased scrutiny as champion elect. I suspect that it won't phase him in the slightest.
 
I missed that. Possibly - and he would have been mindful of that after last year, (albeit through opting for the soft).

Knowing that, I'm inclined to agree with you. I doubt that it was because Maverick was in his head, but he certainly would have been aware of his race pace. It's not about Márquez feeling pressure - we know that he's impervious to that. It's about how Viñales responds to his team mate in particlular, (who I suspect is going to be Captain Consistency this year) and allied to that, the increased scrutiny as champion elect. I suspect that it won't phase him in the slightest.

Yes, sure, I think Vinales has already answered many questions, and it would seem rather likely he was flattering the Suzuki rather than vice versa last year, and that any problems with passing manoeuvres or maintaining race pace were down to the bike +/- the interaction of the bike and tyres in the case of late race pace.

Speaking of coincidences as we were pre-race, the improvement of the Yamaha machine vis a vis the Honda since 2013 when Rossi returned is looking rather uncoincidental as well, not that the possible role of arrogance in the HRC engineering corps should be dismissed as a factor.

Michelin still don't seem to have mastered the manufacturing of race quality front tyres, and I begin to wonder whether MM or even Stoner could could consistently out-ride any version of a Ducati GP bike on Michelin fronts.
 
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He lost the front because he went off the racing line by no more than 10cm to a dirty part of the track. That's why he lost the front .

Likely so. This track whilst beautifully laid out - is problematic in that it's seldom used hence it's quite dirty off the racing line which on suspensions so finely tuned can cause some serious chatter. Watching it again you can see the Hondas for whatever reason weren't coping with that as well as the Yamahas. Crutchlow was all the more impressive for his performance.
Is he still on last year's chassis?
 
What the hell is happening to Crashy's speech?! It's like one of those people that goes into a coma and wakes up talking Jamaican.

His phrasing was always a bit off and 'foreign sounding' but now it's the words and the language and everything. Is he doing an impersonation of Vale?!

 
He sounds like Joey Barton when he went to Marseille. Steve McClaren did a similar thing whilst managing in Holland too [emoji1]

David Moyes' first interview when he went to Spain was a belter as well.

I had noticed Cal's weird accent lately but just thought it was when speaking to journalists whose first language isn't english. It's getting weirder and weirder now and also happens in every interview he does.
 
Kropo's write up is up...

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2017/04/10/2017_argentina_sunday_round_up_part_1.html

One thing that Kropo states...

The obvious culprit to blame for the crash was Márquez' blistering pace at the start.

MM denies his pace being the problem and I'd have to agree with MM on this. People keep citing his pace as the reason for the crash, but it was not one of his usual over the limit crashes. The Honda front end looked bad at multiple times on not just his bike, but also Pedrosa's bike. A lot of wobbling under braking and under acceleration.

Of course there's also the other theory I see being floated around on other forums about MM's crashed being psychological, which is also ........ as it's convenient armchair psychology from people who don't really understand MM's mental toughness. It sounds great to say he crashed due to being psychologically under pressure from MV, but it doesn't match up with what we have seen out of MM since he graduated to GP in 2013.

The Honda continues to have plenty of problems, and that's all it really comes down to. He's done a masterful job of riding around these issues, but this may be the year the chassis issues finally come to roost. It's really a shame the factory Ducati's look as lost as they do because this is a good year for them to leapfrog Honda in the constructor's title battle and shove them down to P3.
 
Surprising that someone actually expected MM to admit his blistering starting pace was a bad idea. michaelm, are you still selling that bridge? I think you've found a buyer! Contact him at [email protected]
 
Dovi's take:

Dovizioso blames Petrucci, not Espargaro, for crash



Ducati's Andrea Dovizioso says he holds Danilo Petrucci - and not Aleix Espargaro - primarily responsible for his early exit from the Argentina MotoGP race.

For the second year in a row, Dovizioso was taken out of the Termas de Rio Hondo race by another rider, this time being hit by Espargaro's Aprilia at Turn 5 on the 15th lap of 25.

But the Italian says he doesn't blame Espargaro for the crash, as he believes the way Pramac Ducati rider Petrucci was riding just ahead of the pair was the main catalyst for the incident.

The pair had been contesting sixth place, with Espargaro just behind, but Dovizioso accused his compatriot of "riding in a bad way" after he had started to struggle with rear tyre drop-off.

"When I was behind Danilo and he had finished completely the rear tyre, he was riding in a bad way," said Dovizioso. "He stopped a lot of riders, braking in a strange way, I think too much.

"Everybody tries to use his style, but in the way he uses it, it was very bad. I tried to overtake him inside and he braked later and closed the door.

"Like this it’s very bad because you don’t give the possibility to do something. You can’t brake like him, he’s heavier and he’s able to brake harder, this not fair. It wasn’t over the limit, but this is not fair. That created the crash.

"I almost hit him, and Aleix made a mistake for that manoeuvre. For sure the mistake was from Aleix, but everything leading up to that was Danilo."

Rear grip woes

After Dovizioso came a close second to Maverick Vinales in Qatar, both factory Ducatis failed to score in Argentina, as Jorge Lorenzo crashed out at the first corner after contact with the Suzuki of Andrea Iannone.

But incidents aside, Dovizioso said he lacked the pace he enjoyed in the season-opener due to a lack of grip at the rear that left him unable to brake as he wanted to.

"After the race we confirmed the limit was the grip on the rear," said the Italian. "Every practice, the limit was that, and in the race the limit was that.

"I couldn’t brake as hard as I wanted or I could, because the bike was able to brake harder but the limit was the slide on the braking.

"The bike was quite good, I didn’t lose too much, but on the exit I was really bad, so I struggled the whole race. With that speed, anyway, I was able to fight for fifth position."

Additional reporting by Oriol Puigdemont
 
Surprising that someone actually expected MM to admit his blistering starting pace was a bad idea. michaelm, are you still selling that bridge? I think you've found a buyer! Contact him at [email protected]

From what I can see there is not one person on this forum who knows more than you or has superior insight than you. Does that pretty much sum it up?
 
Holy smokes I agree, that's twice in a row you forced me to hit the like button. I'm afraid Vudu is in my head I'm done for now folks.

Times are changing. Winter is coming. The Little White Walters have returned to slay us with righteousness.
I just liked a Migs post. Hell hast frozen over
 
Surprising that someone actually expected MM to admit his blistering starting pace was a bad idea. michaelm, are you still selling that bridge? I think you've found a buyer! Contact him at [email protected]
Well here is the lap three times RIGHT BEFORE he crashed.

93 1'39.848
25 1'39.919

That is a difference of .071. Hardly a blistering pace compared to Vinales, now is it? Marrquez was correct that everyone was going slow the first two laps. Just look at the lap times, or I will post them for everyone. Once Vinales got clear he cruised at the same times that Marquez was doing. Kropo apparently doesn't bother to look at statistics, either.
 
Well here is the lap three times RIGHT BEFORE he crashed.

93 1'39.848
25 1'39.919

That is a difference of .071. Hardly a blistering pace compared to Vinales, now is it? Marrquez was correct that everyone was going slow the first two laps. Just look at the lap times, or I will post them for everyone. Once Vinales got clear he cruised at the same times that Marquez was doing. Kropo apparently doesn't bother to look at statistics, either.

Kropo has to be careful not to upset the bopper contingent of his supporters...which is quite large from what I understand. Smart business requires he feeds their delusions to avoid some sort of mass exodus of paid supporters. Painting MM in a bad light no matter how innocuous it seems is good for him since he saw right after Sepang unfolded which way the wind was blowing on the subject of Marc Marquez.

I'd also say the reason people have such difficulty comprehending that MM might not be pushing 10/10ths is because his riding style being as explosive as it is always looks like he is on the ragged edge. If he's backing the bike into corners, it's easy to assume he must be on the limit.
 
I don't think Marquez was capable of running that pace, reason being Crutchlow's slower pace on the same bike. If MM had used his lead to back up and frustrate the following pack he may have finished the race in a decent place rather than throwing it up the road. IMO the real pace the rcv was able to do was what #35 was doing.
 
......
I'd also say the reason people have such difficulty comprehending that MM might not be pushing 10/10ths is because his riding style being as explosive as it is always looks like he is on the ragged edge. If he's backing the bike into corners, it's easy to assume he must be on the limit.
Reminds me of that CS Aussie guy. When you said this, I actually thought of a picture (that I haven't found, yet), of Stoner braking - not sliding. He is on the Duc off the seat/pegs, the rear is a foot off the ground, and it's raining. LOL He was a "villain" too.

I don't think Marquez was capable of running that pace, reason being Crutchlow's slower pace on the same bike. If MM had used his lead to back up and frustrate the following pack he may have finished the race in a decent place rather than throwing it up the road. IMO the real pace the rcv was able to do was what #35 was doing.
Crutchlow was holding up the field. And he did faster laps in practice. You are now saying that CC is faster than MM on the LCR and we should use him as the gauge for Honda speed? That's great news for CC, but I don't think it makes sense.
 
Kropo apparently doesn't bother to look at statistics, either.
Kropo has to be careful not to upset the bopper contingent of his supporters...which is quite large from what I understand. Smart business requires he feeds their delusions to avoid some sort of mass exodus of paid supporters. Painting MM in a bad light no matter how innocuous it seems is good for him since he saw right after Sepang unfolded which way the wind was blowing on the subject of Marc Marquez.

Its in plain English. How does one twist what he said in his article to mean exactly the opposite?

Not-so-exceptional pace

The obvious culprit to blame for the crash was Márquez' blistering pace at the start. It was an argument he rejected. His two-second lead after a lap and a half had surprised him for one reason in particular: "I was not extremely fast," Márquez said. "I was riding in 1'40.0-1'39.8. That was the rhythm. Normally we go out and we already stay there. I was not riding '39.5-'39.0. So it surprised me, but then after three-four laps the other also come to 39.8-40 low. That was the rhythm of the race. I was leading by two-seconds and people can think, 'he was pushing too much'. But I was not pushing a lot. I was riding on the good lap times."

A glance at the lap times confirms Márquez' statements (link is external). On lap 3, the lap before he crashed out, the Repsol Honda rider did a 1'39.848, while Maverick Viñales, who had just got past Cal Crutchlow, set a 1'39.919. The lap after he crashed, Viñales, Crutchlow, and Rossi all did a 1'40.1, then Viñales followed that up with a 1'40.028, a 1'39.895, a 1'39.795, and a 1'39.700. Márquez was riding at the same pace as the trio that went on to fill the podium.

Where was the difference which explains Márquez' huge lead at the start? Blame Cal Crutchlow. The LCR Honda grabbed second place off the line, but knew that the issues he has with the front end were particularly difficult at the start of the race, with a full tank of fuel. "It was critical, no doubt about that," Crutchlow said. "I let Marc go at the start of the race, because with a full tank, I felt it was even worse. So I said, OK, just let him go." Once Viñales got past Crutchlow, he was no longer being held up, and could push at the same pace as Márquez. And a lap or two later, Crutchlow was lapping in the same times as Márquez had been.

Explaining the crash

Why did Márquez crash? He put it down to his own mistake, though he still couldn't understand the cause. "Honestly I don’t know because the crash was really strange. I was just 25-degrees banking. I was completely straight on that brake point. For some reason maybe the tire was not ready, but I was feeling really good with the bike." With Dani Pedrosa also going down in almost the same place, it seems likely to be more than just a simple mistake.

Márquez hinted at the root cause when he explained about using the hard front tire. "In the end we take the risk. We put the hard front tire for try to brake well, try to have stability," he said. In Qatar, they had used the medium front, and he had not been able to attack as the front had been too soft. "Here we plan to take the risk. But in the end is no excuses, it was my mistake and I must learn about this and try to improve for the future. The positive thing is that with all the problems we have we are there fighting for the victories."

In reality, it is a combination of factors. The carcass of the Michelin is not really stiff enough for the heavy braking the Hondas do, which forces them to choose a harder compound. The harder compound is usually also a little stiffer, but it is also harder to get heat into and quicker to cool. Racing the hard front means taking more risk with grip for a bit more stability.

It's complicated

Though it is tempting to do so, the blame can't be pinned solely on Michelin. After all, the winning bike used Michelin's medium front, and had no problems at all with either braking or grip. The design of the Honda forces the riders to seek as much performance as possible from braking, as they are still lacking in acceleration. It is a familiar refrain, yet it remains true.

While the Honda RC213V still lacks acceleration, Honda has consistently moved to strengthen its strongest point. The bike is a beast on the brakes, and can be pivoted around its front end to exploit any sign of weakness from others on corner entry. To achieve that, HRC have made the front of the bike incredibly stiff to handle braking loads, and sacrificed stability in favor of agility. Over the bumps at the Termas De Rio Hondo circuit in Argentina, both those traits worked against the Honda, making riding fast a particularly risky business.

The lack of stability over the bumps was plainly visible. Watching Márquez, and especially Dani Pedrosa, fight a bucking, weaving Honda reminded me of my own biking days in the early 1980s. As a young man, I had a Suzuki GT380, a bike built at a time when "rubber band" was considered an appropriate stiffness for a motorcycle frame. Fun was to be had hitting bumps while leaned over, which would send the bike into a pogoing frenzy to match the punks from the era the bike had been designed.

When a 2017 racing motorcycle is drawing comparisons with late 1970s road bikes, something may be considered to have gone awry.
 
Reminds me of that CS Aussie guy. When you said this, I actually thought of a picture (that I haven't found, yet), of Stoner braking - not sliding. He is on the Duc off the seat/pegs, the rear is a foot off the ground, and it's raining. LOL He was a "villain" too.


Crutchlow was holding up the field. And he did faster laps in practice. You are now saying that CC is faster than MM on the LCR and we should use him as the gauge for Honda speed? That's great news for CC, but I don't think it makes sense.

No, I am saying that CC rode as fast as the RCV was safely capable of. MM rode faster and fell.
 

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