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Gran Premio Motul de la República Argentina 2017
- Thread starter MdubSTYLIE
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They ain't mine, I borrow from elsewhere.
Dovi being pinballed
Dovi takeout - GIF on Imgur
Dani not enjoying the front Michelin
Dani crash - GIF on Imgur
Rossi and Mav enjoying the moment
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Talk about naive. This was verbal sandbagging. This is very common in racing. Dave Emmett talks about how for the press - the factories put bikes out on pit row with the triple-clamps and rear suspension settings all out of whack - so that nobody can copy what they do, and then when the bikes are actually set up for racing - they don't let the journos come close enough to take detailed photos.
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He finished in front of Lorenzo though ......... officially even
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1 Maverick VIÑALES Yamaha SPA 50
2 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha ITA 36
3 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati ITA 20
4 Scott REDDING Ducati GBR 17
5 Cal CRUTCHLOW Honda GBR 16
6 Jonas FOLGER Yamaha GER 16
7 Jack MILLER Honda AUS 15
8 Marc MARQUEZ Honda SPA 13
More than a race difference to 3rd after 2 race. ....!
2 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha ITA 36
3 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati ITA 20
4 Scott REDDING Ducati GBR 17
5 Cal CRUTCHLOW Honda GBR 16
6 Jonas FOLGER Yamaha GER 16
7 Jack MILLER Honda AUS 15
8 Marc MARQUEZ Honda SPA 13
More than a race difference to 3rd after 2 race. ....!
Rossi wasn't sandbagging so much as just.. being old. He doesn't have the stamina he once did and he can afford an injury less than any other rider on the grid (save for Pedrosa). He's preserving his strength because he's got limited reserves of it, not because he's playing a sophisticated psychological game with the opposition.
The best example of that was the Sepang test (I think), where on the afternoon of the final day, he just stayed in the paddock while everyone else was out there testing. According to his crew, he was just too exhausted. It was the same situation there last year in Sept when he arrived sick, jetlagged and saying (when probed) that he wasn't in favour of back-to-back races.
Practice sessions he'll work only on race setup. And come qualifying time, he'll cruise around for six minutes getting a feel for the track while everyone is pushing, come in for fresh tyres, go out, cruise for another two minutes and then put everything he has into two lightning laps, exactly two, just as the chequered flag comes out.
The tyre situation is quite similar. He says that he can push with the current tyre but its a more physical activity, unlike the older stiffer tyre where it was more 'natural' for him, taking less effort causing less strain.
With his experience, cunning and racecraft mixed with the Sunday adrenalin he's always a podium threat but if theoretically MotoGP were to switch to WSBK-style two-race weekend he'd really be in "big big trouble".
The best example of that was the Sepang test (I think), where on the afternoon of the final day, he just stayed in the paddock while everyone else was out there testing. According to his crew, he was just too exhausted. It was the same situation there last year in Sept when he arrived sick, jetlagged and saying (when probed) that he wasn't in favour of back-to-back races.
Practice sessions he'll work only on race setup. And come qualifying time, he'll cruise around for six minutes getting a feel for the track while everyone is pushing, come in for fresh tyres, go out, cruise for another two minutes and then put everything he has into two lightning laps, exactly two, just as the chequered flag comes out.
The tyre situation is quite similar. He says that he can push with the current tyre but its a more physical activity, unlike the older stiffer tyre where it was more 'natural' for him, taking less effort causing less strain.
With his experience, cunning and racecraft mixed with the Sunday adrenalin he's always a podium threat but if theoretically MotoGP were to switch to WSBK-style two-race weekend he'd really be in "big big trouble".
Anything could happen but the safest bet for a rider finishing the season without crashing is Vinales.
He's registered just 1 DNF/season during his tenure on the Suzuki. Espargaro had 9 DNFs over that period. (So far, Iannone has crashed about 10 times on the same bike and Rins about 8 times IIRC.)
On the M1, Vinales was fast on the 2016 tyres, fast on the 2017 early build (stiff) tyres and just as fast on the current (softer) tyres. Fastest at all five tracks he's tested or raced at, each with their own unique characteristics. Not a wet weather specialist but decent in the wet. And he's crashed just once in the 20 days he's been on it (incl. Jerez).
With a 37 pt lead with 16 races to go, he's a bigger threat to Marquez than Lorenzo would have been with the same stats.
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I'm looking forward hugely to COTA, I think we might finally get to see Marquez and Vinaeles head to head. This weekend was the first time this year I've heard Marquez saying he felt good on the bike. Maybe the wet session helped Honda engineers uncover some stuff?
COTA will be make or break for Marquez, if he doesn't win he's in real trouble and if he does dominantly(likely given how dominant his win was even last year) then it will be game on with Vinaeles. Pedrosa and Dovi should go well there as well. It could be lots of fun.
COTA will be make or break for Marquez, if he doesn't win he's in real trouble and if he does dominantly(likely given how dominant his win was even last year) then it will be game on with Vinaeles. Pedrosa and Dovi should go well there as well. It could be lots of fun.
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Marc denies crashing out of the lead due to pushing too hard (I wouldn't expect him to say that anyway).
Read more at MotoGP News - MotoGP Argentina: Marquez: No excuses, I'm disappointed with myself
So Marquez used the same braking point as always and crashed. He doesn't know what mistake he made but thought it was wise not to blame Michelin and the front tyre.
Also totally contradicts your theory of why he pushed so hard.
Also totally contradicts your theory of why he pushed so hard.
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MM claims he built a 2 second lead in the first two laps only because the others were slow starters. :unsure:
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I think Zarco explained he wasn't really pushing at Qatar either, then when he saw the lead he had gained he actually relaxed the pace just slightly and that's when he lost the front.
Thinking back to 2016 Marquez seamed more successful on the start slow strategy as well. Perhaps the Honda just forced him to adopt that as his natural tendency when he has confidence appears to be to push hard early, a strategy that used to work well with Bridgestone but apparently not with Michelin.
I don't know but I guess it must be hard when you are handed an early lead it would naturally be tempting to capitalize on it and run away, yet with Michelin that's just not the way to go.
Credit where its due Vinales obviously has it worked out, yet I maintain he's done it alone pushing the Yamaha hard during testing and practice to refine the package and electronics around tire conservation. Now he reaps the rewards of that hard work. Apparently Rossi was too old and tired to help out. Afterall man can become a little impotent as time goes by, needing the kick of adrenaline to get excited and enhance performance. Its a long season you don't want to blow prematurely.
Thinking back to 2016 Marquez seamed more successful on the start slow strategy as well. Perhaps the Honda just forced him to adopt that as his natural tendency when he has confidence appears to be to push hard early, a strategy that used to work well with Bridgestone but apparently not with Michelin.
I don't know but I guess it must be hard when you are handed an early lead it would naturally be tempting to capitalize on it and run away, yet with Michelin that's just not the way to go.
Credit where its due Vinales obviously has it worked out, yet I maintain he's done it alone pushing the Yamaha hard during testing and practice to refine the package and electronics around tire conservation. Now he reaps the rewards of that hard work. Apparently Rossi was too old and tired to help out. Afterall man can become a little impotent as time goes by, needing the kick of adrenaline to get excited and enhance performance. Its a long season you don't want to blow prematurely.
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I think Zarco explained he wasn't really pushing at Qatar either, then when he saw the lead he had gained he actually relaxed the pace just slightly and that's when he lost the front. .............
He lost the front because he went off the racing line by no more than 10cm to a dirty part of the track. That's why he lost the front .
Arrabbiata1
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If Cal hadn’t had to hold back to conserve fuel, I’m sure that he would have dispatched Valentino…into the gravel? Providence perhaps? Seriously though - a great ride and potentially second step on the rostrum.
Despite the horrendous shapes that the Honda is prone to throwing, Márquez looked comfortable and in control to me although I did feel that such an early pace on the H-H combo was brave as usual, but tempting fate. I don’t think Viñales is in Marc’s head any more than the sleepless nights he’s inflicting upon the rest of his rivals – and the early break was typical Márquez modus operandi.
I felt that testing for Maverick wasn’t simply a shot across the bows – it was a statement of intent. I do agree with Vudu, that if he wins at COTA it is a serious show of arms before the ground war commences in Jerez.
Which is great, I’d love to see him take the title (the Rainey stat yesterday was insane) but I also want to see him battle for it. To dismiss Márquez is idiocy and as previously discussed, Valentino clearly has a strategy but this won’t be a Yamaha two horse race. If they are our only title protagonists, with Lorenzo effectively nullified I want to see other riders step up and take points of all three – challenge for wins and podiums and mix it all up.
Zarco has exported his smooth style to great effect and his guile, finesse and racecraft remains. A very clever rider and alongside Folger (who has long been coveted by Tech 3) a real coup for Hervé. One to watch in the wet too. It’s entirely possible the post-race acrobatics will happen again this season.
Once again the M1 is the finely sharpened weapon of choice although the big bang blunderbuss Honda is still a blast and as the season progresses, less of a loose cannon. The Desmo is an exocet missile in a straight line and Ducati know that if they launch enough of them one will penetrate your defences every now and then. The Aprilia needs its sights calibrating and the KTM is unfortunately still firing blanks.
Despite the horrendous shapes that the Honda is prone to throwing, Márquez looked comfortable and in control to me although I did feel that such an early pace on the H-H combo was brave as usual, but tempting fate. I don’t think Viñales is in Marc’s head any more than the sleepless nights he’s inflicting upon the rest of his rivals – and the early break was typical Márquez modus operandi.
I felt that testing for Maverick wasn’t simply a shot across the bows – it was a statement of intent. I do agree with Vudu, that if he wins at COTA it is a serious show of arms before the ground war commences in Jerez.
Which is great, I’d love to see him take the title (the Rainey stat yesterday was insane) but I also want to see him battle for it. To dismiss Márquez is idiocy and as previously discussed, Valentino clearly has a strategy but this won’t be a Yamaha two horse race. If they are our only title protagonists, with Lorenzo effectively nullified I want to see other riders step up and take points of all three – challenge for wins and podiums and mix it all up.
Zarco has exported his smooth style to great effect and his guile, finesse and racecraft remains. A very clever rider and alongside Folger (who has long been coveted by Tech 3) a real coup for Hervé. One to watch in the wet too. It’s entirely possible the post-race acrobatics will happen again this season.
Once again the M1 is the finely sharpened weapon of choice although the big bang blunderbuss Honda is still a blast and as the season progresses, less of a loose cannon. The Desmo is an exocet missile in a straight line and Ducati know that if they launch enough of them one will penetrate your defences every now and then. The Aprilia needs its sights calibrating and the KTM is unfortunately still firing blanks.
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Good post buddy, just one thing. Marc changed to a medium rear at the last minute. I think it's possible he was attempting to gap everyone so he could manage that lead if the tyre dropped off at the end. Unfortunately we'll never know and we were denied the expected battle between Marc and Maverick too!
