'23 Portimao GP

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warthog1 said:

I see things very differently than that.
Yes the very best in the world are very good at knowing where the limit is and staying within it. They push at the very edges of it, stay on and win. Yes sublimely skilled and talented and world championship material to put it together over a season.
Witness Marquezs skill in partially wet and sketchy conditions. He knows where that limit is and rides on it very very well.
He is able to go a step further however, he does so regularly in practice. Pushes over that limit and finds how far he can go should it be required in the race. He has been able to do this better than anyone I've watched.
I have seen him push that machine harder than it should be, well past the limit but stay on the damn thing and get the result.
I haven''t seen anyone else able to do that to the extent he has.
He has the record to prove it and won several of those champions on a dog of a machine nobody else could ride.
It has cost him physically though, very, very hard on his body.

I also think it is less possible now with the extra load on the tyres aero has bought.
Perhaps I am wrong but it seems that way.

Bloody hell it has been amazing to watch though and I am so glad to have seen it!!

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Yes the current tires and the aero probably work against the style of riding which has brought him all his success. This pretty much involved riding past what grip allowed other riders to do/routinely saving what would be looses for other riders. Probably too much grip to ride beyond it now.

Put him on any Ducati on the grid or probably even a factory Aprilia and the rest of the field would quite likely still have a distant view of his rear tire I suspect. He did however choose to sign the lucrative long term contract and has never really seemed to have had much role in the direction of the HRC bike. Make it as fast as possible and I will do the rest seems to have been the main approach post Pedrosa and Stoner.

seusouber said:

It is official ... penalty is served at the next gp race he starts.

FIM Stewards: Marquez' penalty applicable for his next race

The FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel have confirmed Marc Marquez will serve double Long Lap Penalty at his next Grand Prix

www.motogp.com

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That makes much better sense, no escaping the penalty.

Seeing the crash again, it does look a lot like how M Marquez described it, he didn't go to overtake Martin, more so tried not to hit him when the front locked up, however he did clip Martin and by that time he was going so much faster than the other riders that all he could do was to go straight, if Olivera hadn't been in front of Martin then Marquez would of gone straight on and off the track.

BTY check out the battle for 4th

Gaz said:

Reports doing the round that DORNA have confirmed that Marquest must serve is Double LLP at COTA (the race after Argentina?)

Trying to find a firm source

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Have they changed the penalty cause:
A they were wrong in wording and was applied with no foresight
B just because its Marc, or
C because of the social media outcry?

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Have they changed the penalty cause:
A they were wrong in wording and was applied with no foresight
B just because its Marc, or
C because of the social media outcry?

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All of the above. You could add:

D Because we are Dorna and reserve the right to reinvent or reinterpret our rules and regulations at will according to our whims A
and moods.

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Have they changed the penalty cause:
A they were wrong in wording and was applied with no foresight
B just because its Marc, or
C because of the social media outcry?

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Yet Marini, who also put a rider out for the next race, gets nothing.

MotoGP still a cuck for Rossi and family I see.

Imagine a finale where all the main players are out due to sprints...

#22 said:

Yet Marini, who also put a rider out for the next race, gets nothing.

MotoGP still a cuck for Rossi and family I see.

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The trick to go unpunished is to be a nobody. See Nakagami the past season.

Anyway, last time Marc was this vilified on media was in late 2015. We know what happened next. I hope this makes him more motivated.

MichaelBolton said:

The trick to go unpunished is to be a nobody. See Nakagami the past season.

Anyway, last time Marc was this vilified on media was in late 2015. We know what happened next. I hope this makes him more motivated.

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Yeah, kalex may bring a chassis that Marc gels with. Give the lad a bit more decent bike and he is there.

mylexicon said:

Looks like the MM penalty will go unserved as Marquez will be missing Argentina for surgery. For some reason this has the internet up in arms, though MM will be losing 37 points as opposed to serving only the double long lap penalty.

On to another topic, I'm surprised Vinales struggled a bit in the sprint race, but he went well in the grand prix, with a full tank on cold tires. Early race pace was always his kryptonite, yet he struggled during the sprint with half fuel. Did Aprilia turn the bike upside down to make Mav happy? or did he struggle with the soft front? something else? Can't find any info.

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From Crash.net "Marquez must serve a double long lap penalty when he is next available to compete" so it looks like he will serve the 2LLP.

Murda Mac still has a thirst for blood and he's cheered on until he kills someone. His attempt on Wilairoit in 2011 should've gotten him banned from the sport.

moto vudu said:

Murda Mac still has a thirst for blood and he's cheered on until he kills someone. His attempt on Wilairoit in 2011 should've gotten him banned from the sport.

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That sounds like a good movie. Is it on netflix?

Barbedwirebikerr said:

Have they changed the penalty cause:
A they were wrong in wording and was applied with no foresight
B just because its Marc, or
C because of the social media outcry?

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Whiel to me, the penalty wording was wrong (ie. it is easy to state that teh penalty applies at the next race in which the riider competes), nope, I suspect it was the social media outcry and brand damage risks along with a few riders whining loudly and publically.

The change of penalty is about brand damage and social warriors winning to cover the original poor wording


Now for a question as if it now says next round/race - does this apply to sprint races?

less points to be impacted.

#22 said:

Yet Marini, who also put a rider out for the next race, gets nothing.

MotoGP still a cuck for Rossi and family I see.

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MichaelBolton said:

The trick to go unpunished is to be a nobody. See Nakagami the past season.

Anyway, last time Marc was this vilified on media was in late 2015. We know what happened next. I hope this makes him more motivated.

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Yep - precedent has now been set yet watch the (lack of) consistency when it occurs to lesser public riders

MdubSTYLIE said:

That sounds like a good movie. Is it on netflix?

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I believe it is a Stan documentary about some rapper dude who works at McDonald's to make ends meet until his big break

mikesbytes said:

That makes much better sense, no escaping the penalty.

Seeing the crash again, it does look a lot like how M Marquez described it, he didn't go to overtake Martin, more so tried not to hit him when the front locked up, however he did clip Martin and by that time he was going so much faster than the other riders that all he could do was to go straight, if Olivera hadn't been in front of Martin then Marquez would of gone straight on and off the track.

BTY check out the battle for 4th

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Yeah the side video clearly shows the lock up and by then he had overtaken Marting so simply gould not go left and sh*t happened

Once he got thrown right, to a degree he was a passenger as he was always taking someone out

Does not lessen but does explain to a degree and unfortunately now, Oliviera is out

What is it about Marquez' knocking riders out of home GP's

Gaz said:

I believe it is a Stan documentary about some rapper dude who works at McDonald's to make ends meet until his big break

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Gaz said:

I believe it is a Stan documentary about some rapper dude who works at McDonald's to make ends meet until his big break

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More like a vampire movie.

Yes perhaps a new Blade movie.

Gaz said:

Yeah the side video clearly shows the lock up and by then he had overtaken Marting so simply gould not go left and sh*t happened

Once he got thrown right, to a degree he was a passenger as he was always taking someone out

Does not lessen but does explain to a degree and unfortunately now, Oliviera is out

What is it about Marquez' knocking riders out of home GP's

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How do they decide whether taking someone out should result in a penalty or not? I'd say it would be really difficult to be consistent on when to award a penalty and when to not award a penalty.

Perhaps Marini should of been penalised too?

mikesbytes said:

How do they decide whether taking someone out should result in a penalty or not? I'd say it would be really difficult to be consistent on when to award a penalty and when to not award a penalty.

Perhaps Marini should of been penalised too?

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That is one of the issues that affects and impacts all people who play a role in the race weekend, from marshall's who may need to give evidence, to scrutineers and data teams through to the tower resources and stewards. The issue of when to penalise, how and with what severity is actually never easy and will always see people upset either because they got penalised or because they did not.

But, that said I suspect history of the rider/s involved (ie. past incidents of similar nature), data that is freely available, position in race (ie. early laps, middle laps, end laps), images and pictures that are available (free to air and bike specific) as well as individual testimony will all play a part. Sadly as well, sometimes public outcry and brand damage will also play a role in whether someone is or is not penalised as much of what we see needs to benefit DORNA and the brand that the sport wishes to present.

That all said, there are some clear cut penalties as well such as jump starts but where there is contact, there is often extreme conjecture as to cause and whether penalties are justified as what is the difference between good hard racing and a mistake that leads to what we saw?

Never expect consistency when it comes to DORNA an penalties as they have never had the consistency and I will defend to a degree by stating that it is actually very difficult as each incident is different and as such, the level of cuplability for similar incidents may vary. To me, if, and that is a big IF DORNA were to publish a full transcript or judgement that outlinedt he investigation, circumstances etc and release it to the media (ie. create transparancy) then we may start to see a level of acceptance and consistency. But, do not hold your breath

Personally, I feel that a slippery slope has been opened (ie. will every rider who now impacts another get a form of penalty?) as the result of an outcry that was caused by DORNA and MotoGP not being clear in their public announcements when it came to the penalty, and even now it still remains unclear to a degree. To me, nowhere have I seen a determination that the penalty must take place on or in the Sunday race, as all we see is that the penalty carries over to COTA and with both races carrying points, the can of worms remains open.

Repsol Honda to appeal.

Repsol Honda Team Statement on FIM penalty modification​

In relation to the sanction imposed by the FIM on Marc Marquez for the race incident that occurred at the Portuguese Grand Prix, the Repsol Honda Team considers that the modification of the penalty consisted of a change of criteria on when the penalty should be applied, and that this modification was issued by the FIM two days after the initial sanction was final and definitive, is not in line with the current regulations of the FIM for the MotoGP World Championship. For this reason, the Repsol Honda Team intends to use all the means of recourse offered by the regulations in force to defend its rights and legitimate interests, which it considers violated as a result of the latest resolution adopted, and in particular has duly submitted an Appeal before the FIM Appeal Stewards.