'23 Portimao GP

mylexicon · Mar 27, 2023

Looks like the MM penalty will go unserved as Marquez will be missing Argentina for surgery. For some reason this has the internet up in arms, though MM will be losing 37 points as opposed to serving only the double long lap penalty.

On to another topic, I'm surprised Vinales struggled a bit in the sprint race, but he went well in the grand prix, with a full tank on cold tires. Early race pace was always his kryptonite, yet he struggled during the sprint with half fuel. Did Aprilia turn the bike upside down to make Mav happy? or did he struggle with the soft front? something else? Can't find any info.

Gaz · Mar 27, 2023

mylexicon said:
Looks like the MM penalty will go unserved as Marquez will be missing Argentina for surgery. For some reason this has the internet up in arms, though MM will be losing 37 points as opposed to serving only the double long lap penalty.

On to another topic, I'm surprised Vinales struggled a bit in the sprint race, but he went well in the grand prix, with a full tank on cold tires. Early race pace was always his kryptonite, yet he struggled during the sprint with half fuel. Did Aprilia turn the bike upside down to make Mav happy? or did he struggle with the soft front? something else? Can't find any info.

Yeah this has me confused as well Lex

He is out of the race - so cannot get a point yet people whinge and claim that the double LLP is not enough.

Some, then want him banned for a race - guess what, he is out of one due to his own caused injury

Some will say but there has been no punishment served - well I am not sure as he is missing an opportunity for 37 points whether banned or injured.

On Vinales, my dark horse if his mind can stay up beat.

To me, he is oodles more talented than is Asparagus who had a good year last year and we saw how that went. I am hoping to see Vinales in top 5 more often than we have in recent times.

But as a throwaway comment. Interesting that Vinales left Yamaha and it seems a single rider bike so I do wonder if some of the politics played a part as he does strike me as very highly strung and easily to unsettle when the equilibrium is not right

MichaelBolton · Mar 27, 2023

Bern1 said:
The never ending repetition of this kind of conduct is what will keep him out of the pantheon of the greats

Come on now.

Gaz · Mar 27, 2023

MdubSTYLIE said:
I think they should start using cruel and unusual punishment for actions on track. Getting a tow in qualifying you get water boarded. Knock a rider down and you get caned for your first offence stoned for your second.

Caned and stoned you say ....................

To some people that is a fun weekend

warthog1 · Mar 27, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
Come on now.

I've been watching since the mid 80s.
I am an old fart.
He has been able to do .... on a motorcycle that nobody else can.
Unfortunately he is still human and makes mistakes at times.
Watching those insane front end slides puts him above everyone for me, as nobody else has been able to do so.

I expect the down force from the aero MotoGP bikes now have, makes it harder to do and needed less often.

I reckon the margin of that advantage he had, has been significantly reduced now.
If not negated.

Mrpurple · Mar 27, 2023

For sure, Marc will be gone next year...hes a win or bin type guy and Honda is slacking.

Bern1 · Mar 27, 2023

MichaelBolton said:
Come on now.

I have been saying this for years, here on the forum and to all my racing friends. My mind is made up and will not change. The very first big incident is indictment enough.

You are of course free to have your own pantheon.

michaelm · Mar 27, 2023

Bern1 said:
I have been saying this for years, here on the forum and to all my racing friends. My mind is made up and will not change. The very first big incident is indictment enough.

You are of course free to have your own pantheon.

The Willairot incident can't be justified in retrospect or otherwise. He was 17 years old and his adult crew did send him out, but he kept those guys going forward anyway, including beyond his teenage years..

He is a ridiculously talented and fast guy, and like Lex I admire him for standing up to Rossi and the Valeban. As most would be aware I am no Rossi fan, while acknowledging his talent as you do MM's, Much as I disapprove of Rossi using the extreme element of his fan base and his power with the media as a weapon against most of his in any way serious rivals such that life was a misery for them particularly.if they beat him in races and even more so to world titles, his safety record over a very long career was not far off being impeccable, although dependent on the professionalism, skill and character of an opponent in the case of the Corkscrew thing in particular and to an extent the Jerez last corner thing where collisions with opponents on the racing line would have occurred as a result of his own deliberate choice had his opponents not elected to avoid same as he counted on them doing. He also had his own indefensible incident at Sepang 2015.

mikesbytes · Mar 27, 2023

Hi I'm new to this forum

See we now have 4 riders that will miss the Argentina round. Sadly Pol at best will return in the second half of the season, he might end up not returning at all.

Dynamohum · Mar 27, 2023

Pantheon? Anyway, MM has been able to upright some of his front end washouts because he has far more experience in front end washouts than anyone else. Why is that, no one wonders…. His loss of points by missing the next race is his own doing and is NOT a punishment for his actions. It’s quite obvious that he’s a danger to himself and other riders. He should miss whatever race is next that he’s able to participate in. The ruling was too lenient and worded in his favor, and shouldn’t have been.

Bern1 · Mar 27, 2023

michaelm said:
The Willairot incident can't be justified in retrospect or otherwise. He was 17 years old and his adult crew did send him out, but he kept those guys going forward anyway, including beyond his teenage years..

He is a ridiculously talented and fast guy, and like Lex I admire him for standing up to Rossi and the Valeban. As most would be aware I am no Rossi fan, while acknowledging his talent as you do MM's, Much as I disapprove of Rossi using the extreme element of his fan base and his power with the media as a weapon against most of his in any way serious rivals such that life was a misery for them particularly.if they beat him in races and even more so to world titles, his safety record over a very long career was not far off being impeccable, although dependent on the professionalism, skill and character of an opponent in the case of the Corkscrew thing in particular and to an extent the Jerez last corner thing where collisions with opponents on the racing line would have occurred as a result of his own deliberate choice had his opponents not elected to avoid same as he counted on them doing. He also had his own indefensible incident at Sepang 2015.

I am likewise no fan of Rossi. He won’t be in the pantheon either, for all the reasons you mentioned.

Bern1 · Mar 27, 2023

Dynamohum said:
Pantheon? Anyway, MM has been able to upright some of his front end washouts because he has far more experience in front end washouts than anyone else. Why is that, no one wonders…. His loss of points by missing the next race is his own doing and is NOT a punishment for his actions. It’s quite obvious that he’s a danger to himself and other riders. He should miss whatever race is next that he’s able to participate in. The ruling was too lenient and worded in his favor, and shouldn’t have been.

The very best riders go fast and win with the least drama. Take it up to the edge and don’t push past it. Rare are the huge saves, very few are the front end washouts. To the uninitiated, they may not even look like they’re going that fast.

Mike Hailwood, Eddie Lawson.

Sure, it’s entertaining to watch MM save a huge slide on his elbow when he’s over the limit. Makes for good TV. I preferred watching Lorenzo win while riding super smooth just under the limit.

Bern1 · Mar 27, 2023

Dynamohum said:
Pantheon? Anyway, MM has been able to upright some of his front end washouts because he has far more experience in front end washouts than anyone else.

This could be true, although it takes a lot of skill to save them.

Again, I will argue it takes as much or more skill to not have to make a giant save and win.

There is the crux of the matter. Marquez has a lot of wins with the win or bin style. Time will tell if this continues.

Repsol 93 · Mar 27, 2023

Bern1 said:
The never ending repetition of this kind of conduct is what will keep him out of the pantheon of the greats, his once in a generation talent notwithstanding, however much I admire it.

someone's got the vapors

warthog1 · Mar 27, 2023

mikesbytes said:
Hi I'm new to this forum

See we now have 4 riders that will miss the Argentina round. Sadly Pol at best will return in the second half of the season, he might end up not returning at all.

Good to see you Mike

Gaz · Mar 27, 2023

Reports doing the round that DORNA have confirmed that Marquest must serve is Double LLP at COTA (the race after Argentina?)

Trying to find a firm source

warthog1 · Mar 28, 2023

Bern1 said:
The very best riders go fast and win with the least drama. Take it up to the edge and don’t push past it. Rare are the huge saves, very few are the front end washouts. To the uninitiated, they may not even look like they’re going that fast.

Mike Hailwood, Eddie Lawson.

Sure, it’s entertaining to watch MM save a huge slide on his elbow when he’s over the limit. Makes for good TV. I preferred watching Lorenzo win while riding super smooth just under the limit.

I see things very differently than that.
Yes the very best in the world are very good at knowing where the limit is and staying within it. They push at the very edges of it, stay on and win. Yes sublimely skilled and talented and world championship material to put it together over a season.
Witness Marquezs skill in partially wet and sketchy conditions. He knows where that limit is and rides on it very very well.
He is able to go a step further however, he does so regularly in practice. Pushes over that limit and finds how far he can go should it be required in the race. He has been able to do this better than anyone I've watched.
I have seen him push that machine harder than it should be, well past the limit but stay on the damn thing and get the result.
I haven''t seen anyone else able to do that to the extent he has.
He has the record to prove it and won several of those champions on a dog of a machine nobody else could ride.
It has cost him physically though, very, very hard on his body.

I also think it is less possible now with the extra load on the tyres aero has bought.
Perhaps I am wrong but it seems that way.

Bloody hell it has been amazing to watch though and I am so glad to have seen it!!

Gaz · Mar 28, 2023

warthog1 said:
I see things very differently than that.
Yes the very best in the world are very good at knowing where the limit is and staying within it. They push at the very edges of it, stay on and win. Yes sublimely skilled and talented and world championship material to put it together over a season.
Witness Marquezs skill in partially wet and sketchy conditions. He knows where that limit is and rides on it very very well.
He is able to go a step further however, he does so regularly in practice. Pushes over that limit and finds how far he can go should it be required in the race. He has been able to do this better than anyone I've watched.
I have seen him push that machine harder than it should be, well past the limit but stay on the damn thing and get the result.
I haven''t seen anyone else able to do that to the extent he has.
He has the record to prove it and won several of those champions on a dog of a machine nobody else could ride.
It has cost him physically though, very, very hard on his body.

I also think it is less possible now with the extra load on the tyres aero has bought.
Perhaps I am wrong but it seems that way.

Bloody hell it has been amazing to watch though and I am so glad to have seen it!!

Marquez does that which he needs to do and does it extrordinarily well, just that sometimes it works and others it doesn't. His big issue today is that some riders have caught up and absolutely some bikes are now superior, so he has to be the difference.

I go back to a quote I recall hearing many years ago - seem to recall it was Stoner who said it but not sure if he came up with it.

'People whing about crashing, but how else do you find the limit without going over it?'

The difference between the good, very good and great is that the great find the limit and ride on teh edge of it, but by doing that they will mess up and crash. There is not a rider racing who has at some point not crashed and not one could say that at some point they have never affected another's race

MichaelBolton · Mar 28, 2023

Gaz said:
'People whing about crashing, but how else do you find the limit without going over it?'

This reminds me of something, the constant whine about current MotoGP being boring and processional because there are no overtakes. At the same time, many of said critics also bemoan aggressive riding and condemn it fully. Just a bit ironical IMO.

seusouber · Mar 28, 2023

Gaz said:
Reports doing the round that DORNA have confirmed that Marquest must serve is Double LLP at COTA (the race after Argentina?)

Trying to find a firm source

It is official ... penalty is served at the next gp race he starts.

FIM Stewards: Marquez' penalty applicable for his next race

The FIM MotoGP Stewards Panel have confirmed Marc Marquez will serve double Long Lap Penalty at his next Grand Prix

www.motogp.com

Search

Search

'23 Portimao GP

mylexicon

Gaz

MichaelBolton

Gaz

warthog1

Mrpurple

Bern1

michaelm

mikesbytes

Dynamohum

Bern1

Bern1

Bern1

Repsol 93

warthog1

Gaz

warthog1

Gaz

MichaelBolton

seusouber

FIM Stewards: Marquez' penalty applicable for his next race

Similar threads

Recent Discussions