The end of Honda? (GP and WSBK)

#22 said:

A la WBSK early 2000's. I love MotoGP but I will find it hard to watch if it becomes 2 or 4 factory Ducati's against a field of customer bikes and a few other manufacturers.

So if they are doing away with the R1, what does that mean for their WSBK program? WSBK in general? If Honda and Yamaha no longer make a bike that is eligible, it either becomes a Ducati cup or other manufacturers have to make smaller bikes. Does WSS become the new WSBK?

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The future is unclear. If the FIM have a plan, they aren't dropping any hints. WSBK homologations are for 5 years so they R1 will be around for awhile, even if it loses road homologation in 2025.

The next-generation bikes in WSSP could step up. Several bikes have a higher performance threshold than the current SSP state of tune, but the next-gen concept is still undersubscribed. Ducati, MV and Suzuki currently make bikes that can be tuned upwards of 150hp. But the GSX-R750 is not homologated for road riding in Europe, and it doesn't have throttle by wire stock. The R9 might arrive in 2025. Is that a strong enough foundation for a next-gen SBK class? What if Triumph join with a proper 765? Is that enough performance to keep fans engaged? What if they bring back Monza?

There are technical headwinds to next generation Superbike because WSSP is WWE compared to WSBK. The SSP rules allow fewer modifications to keep costs down. This means that the BoP is determined by the attributes of the bike. I think they might control engine mapping by gear. In SBK, everyone has 1000cc and 4-cylinders. The engines should make similar peak power and torque through the entire rev range, and the teams pick their gear sets and sprockets for each race. Can the highest production racing class embrace BoP that is controlled by the attributes of the homologated motorcycle? Like FIA GT3, will they need to make adjustments on a track by track basis?

And even bigger picture, the FIM will need to renegotiate the commercial rights agreement for MotoGP in 2032. Is that the point at which the FIM and Dorna make a deal to consolidate Superbike and GP into a single championship?

I have no idea what's going on. I hope that WSBK remains independent from GP. Since 200hp ride by wire missiles are not a sales hit, I hope WSBK finds a way to encourage road-relevant machines that people can afford. I hope bike sophistication is dialed back to reduce the technical and budgetary strain on private teams and manufacturers. Hopefully, they will create a naked sport class.

When Superbikes made 100hp on the road and 150hp on the track, it was much more popular than now. Not saying we should wind back the clock 30 years to carbs, but 200hp wire-guided bikes are not doing the business.

gui22a said:

LoL, what a crappy argument.

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It's a great argument. What do you know, computers and electronics are a euro/jap thing. What did brazil do? Invent the toothbrush. toothbrush, not teethbrush.

propagandhi said:

It's a great argument. What do you know, computers and electronics are a euro/jap thing. What did brazil do? Invent the toothbrush. toothbrush, not teethbrush.

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This is a calculator. I've never heard about any human being doing better in math than a calculator. But what have calculators ever invented?

The fact Asian culture produces good math students thanks to their... culture, that doesn't necessary mean they should be producing better bikes, better cars, better technology or better whatever. In fact, most human being inventions came from European people/culture. I'm not saying the Japanese have never invented a thing (maybe the CD player, things like that) but they are not known by being that creative. One doesn't need to be good at math to invent something, specially nowadays where we have computers to do all the math for us.

And hey.. computers were not invented by Asian people, by the way. Maybe some silicons, microchips, but that's not the same thing as "computer" or "to compute". Your research is very poor. Try again.

But again, I don't mean Asians don't invent anything or are not creatives. But if there is one thing that Asians are really good to, is to copy or emulate. After someone has invented something, they are the best at looking deep into it, copying it and then maybe doing a even better final product. From 2011 to now, what do Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki created as a novelty in MotoGP prototypes. The last thing I heard of maybe was the seamless clutch, but that is not a Japanese invention, again, but ok, kudos to Honda by implementing it in a bike specially without dual clutch.

About Brazil, well, we have invented the "futebol arte", carnaval, brazilian wax, theft, "arrastão", corruption, sky high criminal rates, dictators in supreme court and criminals as politicians. Take that!

PS: I didn't know Brazil had invented the toothbrush. But you can take advantage over this invention doing better than some of you in your continent:

gui22a said:

LoL, what a crappy argument.

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Not so much an argument as it is a bit of stand-up comedy.

mylexicon said:

Is that enough performance to keep fans engaged? What if they bring back Monza?

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I think this is the crux of it. We can postulate about it all we like but it is going to boil down to ecenomics. What makes the organisers the most money, and gives manufacturers the most ROI? A sport with no fans will do neither.

Very much enjoy your posts Lex, you are an asset to this forum.

gui22a said:

View attachment 14640

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Firstly, I think Propaghandi is from Europe and not the UK.

Secondly, as a Brit, I see more Americans with bad teeth than us!

#22 said:

Firstly, I think Propaghandi is from Europe and not the UK.

Secondly, as a Brit, I see more Americans with bad teeth than us!

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Simpsons is to blame! I have nothing to do with it!

gui22a said:

View attachment 14639

This is a calculator. I've never heard about any human being doing better in math than a calculator. But what have calculators ever invented?

The fact Asian culture produces good math students thanks to their... culture, that doesn't necessary mean they should be producing better bikes, better cars, better technology or better whatever. In fact, most human being inventions came from European people/culture. I'm not saying the Japanese have never invented a thing (maybe the CD player, things like that) but they are not known by being that creative. One doesn't need to be good at math to invent something, specially nowadays where we have computers to do all the math for us.

And hey.. computers were not invented by Asian people, by the way. Maybe some silicons, microchips, but that's not the same thing as "computer" or "to compute". Your research is very poor. Try again.

But again, I don't mean Asians don't invent anything or are not creatives. But if there is one thing that Asians are really good to, is to copy or emulate. After someone has invented something, they are the best at looking deep into it, copying it and then maybe doing a even better final product. From 2011 to now, what do Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki created as a novelty in MotoGP prototypes. The last thing I heard of maybe was the seamless clutch, but that is not a Japanese invention, again, but ok, kudos to Honda by implementing it in a bike specially without dual clutch.

About Brazil, well, we have invented the "futebol arte", carnaval, brazilian wax, theft, "arrastão", corruption, sky high criminal rates, dictators in supreme court and criminals as politicians. Take that!

PS: I didn't know Brazil had invented the toothbrush. But you can take advantage over this invention doing better than some of you in your continent:

View attachment 14640

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Halbe Bibel, ganzer Hurensohn.

#22 said:

Firstly, I think Propaghandi is from Europe and not the UK.

Secondly, as a Brit, I see more Americans with bad teeth than us!

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С каких это пор ты британец?

propagandhi said:

Halbe Bibel, ganzer Hurensohn.

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Ich been ein chrome dinette!
( F. Zappa)

propagandhi said:

It's a great argument. What do you know, computers and electronics are a euro/jap thing. What did brazil do? Invent the toothbrush. toothbrush, not teethbrush.

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What did black people ever invented for that matter (besides the waterpistol) or muslims…

ApriliaRS250 said:

What did black people ever invent

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Folding chairs and potato chips. So basically thank you King Musinga for Wrestlemania

What the .... this topic has become...

It's the forum way...eventually it will get back on topic!

gui22a said:

View attachment 14639

This is a calculator. I've never heard about any human being doing better in math than a calculator. But what have calculators ever invented?

The fact Asian culture produces good math students thanks to their... culture, that doesn't necessary mean they should be producing better bikes, better cars, better technology or better whatever. In fact, most human being inventions came from European people/culture. I'm not saying the Japanese have never invented a thing (maybe the CD player, things like that) but they are not known by being that creative. One doesn't need to be good at math to invent something, specially nowadays where we have computers to do all the math for us.

And hey.. computers were not invented by Asian people, by the way. Maybe some silicons, microchips, but that's not the same thing as "computer" or "to compute". Your research is very poor. Try again.

But again, I don't mean Asians don't invent anything or are not creatives. But if there is one thing that Asians are really good to, is to copy or emulate. After someone has invented something, they are the best at looking deep into it, copying it and then maybe doing a even better final product. From 2011 to now, what do Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki created as a novelty in MotoGP prototypes. The last thing I heard of maybe was the seamless clutch, but that is not a Japanese invention, again, but ok, kudos to Honda by implementing it in a bike specially without dual clutch.

About Brazil, well, we have invented the "futebol arte", carnaval, brazilian wax, theft, "arrastão", corruption, sky high criminal rates, dictators in supreme court and criminals as politicians. Take that!

PS: I didn't know Brazil had invented the toothbrush. But you can take advantage over this invention doing better than some of you in your continent:

View attachment 14640

Click to expand...

Well that was a whole bunch of rubbish. If it was not for the Japanese, the whole planet would still be driving around in unreliable American & European vehicles. Thanks to the Honda NSX Europe was able to learn how to make a reliable super car. And this is just one example of the many things Japan has done to improve technology over the west.

Get off your hi horse and go play with your little fire bomb taramps.

ApriliaRS250 said:

What did black people ever invented for that matter (besides the waterpistol) or muslims…

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You are the racist ....... retard of the year.


Some free education little man

The first automatic gear shift
And
The first ever blood bank

So, about Honda...

MichaelBolton said:

So, about Honda...

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Meh. Asian math, racism, toothbrushes, and inventions is much more interesting than Honda right now.

Well not a single Honda in the top 10 of wsbk qualifying at Phillip Island. Meanwhile you have Andre Iannone on the front row after being out of racing for 4 years.

Xavi Vierge was top Honda in P13. Next closest Honda was P21.

It's hard to not draw the ultimate conclusion that they just flat out don't give a .... anymore as far as superbikes goes.

GP they are saying the right things and doing the work at least from what it appears but there seems to be no correlation to real world results.

Honda's last WSBK win still remains Nicky Hayden in 2016 at Sepang. You know I'd actually be okay with them never winning again if it means Nicky remains their final race winner.