Motorcycle Racing Industry: Reading the Tea Leaves

The Felo Tooz claims a 35kw/h battery, which should give a range of about 535km. The manufacturers claim about 700km, but according to this article, that claim is likely unrealistic.

https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/felo-tooz-electric-tourer-promises-extended-range/
However, that's a 'heavyweight tourer', and given the battery size and current technology, most likely a VERY heavyweight tourer.



But, technology will move on. If sold-state batteries fulfil their promise (remains to be seen), then that will be a step towards it being feasible for top-level motorcycling racing to go electric.

I wonder which weighs more: The Tooz or a Kawasaki Z1300. I've seen claims that the battery alone will weigh about 150kg. That compares to a MotoGP bike weighing 160kg all up.

Note that my 60kw/h estimate of the minimum battery size for proper motorcycle racing is that: a minimum. And, it's a number pulled out of my posterior.

AnnoyingTwit said:

I think it would be interesting to discuss how much power and battery range electric bikes will need before they are ready for major races. The Ducati Moto E bike has a battery capacity of only 18 kw/h while there are road bikes with about 22 kw/h. Moto2 has about 140hp, and I would think that at least that much will be needed. While Moto2 is slower than MotoGP, I think not slow enough to make the racing unexciting. MotoE races are about 35km, while even Moto3 is about 100km. From that, I would think that about 60kw/h batteries will be needed for races of decent length. But, with current technologies that just won't work on a racing motorcycle I think. Several generations of battery technology are, I would think, necessary.

It's interesting to have MotoE as a sprint race alternative. But, if all races were that short, that would be unsatisfactory.

Click to expand...

I have seen the Stark Vargs last an entire Moto (30 min or so), but I dont recall seeing one win. I have ridden one, and they are as fast if not faster then a 450, but they do take a bit of getting used to, he engine braking takes a while to get adjusted to. They say they can last longer then a full tank of gas on an mx bike, I personally do not know if that is true. and how reliable are they? I can fix everything on my SXF450, I am not sure you can fix everything on a Stark as easily and where are you going to get parts?

As far as street bikes go, the Harley Live Wire has been out a while now, I have seen a few out at bike nights and on rides. I have talked to a few owners, but they all say that riding on the freeways does drain the battery quickly (Here is Texas the speed limit is 75, and even 85 in some places).

Hollywood said:

I have seen the Stark Vargs last an entire Moto (30 min or so), but I dont recall seeing one win. I have ridden one, and they are as fast if not faster then a 450, but they do take a bit of getting used to, he engine braking takes a while to get adjusted to. They say they can last longer then a full tank of gas on an mx bike, I personally do not know if that is true. and how reliable are they? I can fix everything on my SXF450, I am not sure you can fix everything on a Stark as easily and where are you going to get parts?

As far as street bikes go, the Harley Live Wire has been out a while now, I have seen a few out at bike nights and on rides. I have talked to a few owners, but they all say that riding on the freeways does drain the battery quickly (Here is Texas the speed limit is 75, and even 85 in some places).

Click to expand...

I've only see the live wire once, technically twice as there were 2 together and that's probably because I live close to a Harley dealership. They don't seem to be selling where I am giving me the impression that Harley is going to be in trouble when motorcycles are required to go electric

Stark claims that the Varg can last for about 6 hours easy trail riding, or a full MXGP (as said above). Stark VARG Electric Dirt Bike | Stark Future That's impressive with only a 6.5kw/hr battery. I'm not familiar with MXGP and the speeds attained.

Even assuming regenerative braking, there will be a certain amount of energy required to race at certain speeds on a track. According to here: for the Ducati MotoE about 5-10% of the energy used is from regenerative braking, and the rest (large majority) is from the battery. I'm trying to think of how to estimate how much energy is needed for races of lengths and at speeds of: Moto3, Moto2, and Moto3.

For MotoGP, there is a limit (googled, out of date?) of 22 litres of petrol. In kw/h of energy, that's about 195.8kw/hr. But, a petrol engine isn't as efficient as an electric engine, and there is no regeneration of energy. Modern petrol engines have a maximum efficiency of up to 50%, and I would wildly guess that MotoGP is close to that. Electric engines can be about 85% efficient. So, I'm going to put regeneration at 5%, and wildly approximate the battery size for MotoGP race length and speed at: 195.8 * 50/85 * 0.95 = 109.41kw/hr. Note that an electric bike is going to be heavier than a MotoGP bike, but I'm going to ignore that here. Also, I think that 0.95 isn't quite the right multiplier for 5% energy regeneration, but I think it's close enough for a forum post.

When I wildly estimated 60kw/hr before, I was assuming that races would be slower and shorter. More like Moto3 length and Moto2 power. So, I don't think that 60kw/hr is way off. And, of course, there can be fudges such as mid-race bike changes as originally happened in Formula E.

mikesbytes said:

I've only see the live wire once, technically twice as there were 2 together and that's probably because I live close to a Harley dealership. They don't seem to be selling where I am giving me the impression that Harley is going to be in trouble when motorcycles are required to go electric

Click to expand...

well its $15K, which at a Harley dealer could buy you a Sportster or even a Softtail. I think for someone to buy one, they really have to want one, otherwise they will be hit with better bike options at a dealer. Right now I dont think there are enough buyers specifically looking for electric bikes, but I do think this will change as these kids who are already riding electric dirt bikes grow up.