2024 MotoGP Round 9: Liqui Moly Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland - Sachsenring

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I anticipated writing a post to congratulate Martin for an excellent double, but fate had other ideas. In the post race interview Pecco provided some insight. He claimed they were both pushing and he could see Jorge making a few mistakes, but Pecco himself was also locking the front a bit. Sounds like a blinking contest and Jorge blinked first.

Marquez mania on the podium. First brothers on the podium since the Aoki brothers in 1997. Did I hear that stat right? Hard to believe the Marquez’ and Espargagro’s have never done it until now. Marc was flying at the end of the race. He looked like Bastianini.

Morbidelli is slowly improving so he’ll probably stick around for 2025, but what bike and team? Has Oliveira done enough? Miller? Mav seems safe with a win and good pace….that he squandered today by nearly flying over the highside. Enea made a late charge but it wasn’t enough to change the podium, and he wasn’t able to clear Frankie on the first attempt.

Overall Sachsenring was a good race. I’ve always liked the track and the event. Hopefully it will stay on the calendar long enough for me to make it over there one day.
 
Keshav said:
Got to say, I always wonder what factors observers use to discern when a rider has "gagged" or "broke under pressure" as opposed to just hit a bad spot of paving or been victim of a tire that has suddenly deteriorated.
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I noticed he was trying to brake later and later heading into T1. I'm not sure if it was the lap before or the prior lap, but he was getting really loose under braking. If you look at the replay from the pitwall, he was backing the bike into T1 while Pecco was braking in a straight line. It's amazing how they have all those cameras and completely missed it from the T1 camera. He pushed too far with the front. I was actually waiting for him to crash once it was obvious he did not bother to manage his tires. Win or bin mode. He could have played it safe but chose not to. We saw this from him last year, he hasn't learned anything.
 
JPSLotus said:
I'll say it right now, Martin is not winning the title this season. His window to win with Ducati is gone. He needed to stay upright today not vomit up 20 or 25 points.
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Yes, maybe he actually didn’t “deserve” the factory ride next year which was pretty much his own demand.

Bagnaia on the other hand continues to deliver under pressure, and also seems to have worked into his season by this time 3 seasons in a row now.

I agree as someone said pre race Bagnaia is better than FQ, so if the Ducati remains the best bike next season which seems likely then the outcome of silly season which many complained about might be to have the two best riders competing against each other on equal equipment. Hopefully MM has a near peak season left in him for next season, on the evidence of this race he remains indomitable. Sans Bradl in Q1 he might have won this race despite everything else. Bagnaia is great at preserving his tyres, but MM seems to retain one of his greatest talents, riding worn tyres, which is what I think he does better than others more than preserving tyres better.
 
Keshav said:
Got to say, I always wonder what factors observers use to discern when a rider has "gagged" or "broke under pressure" as opposed to just hit a bad spot of paving or been victim of a tire that has suddenly deteriorated.
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I would say that a possible partial reason for the result is that Martin couldn't let up in terms of speed, and protect his tyres better, because Bagnaia was only less than a second behind for much of the race.

Martin has crashed out of potential race-winning and podium positions three times this season already. It seems that the causes are plausibly down to Martin, not just random factors that could happen to anyone.
 
AnnoyingTwit said:
I would say that a possible partial reason for the result is that Martin couldn't let up in terms of speed, and protect his tyres better, because Bagnaia was only less than a second behind for much of the race.

Martin has crashed out of potential race-winning and podium positions three times this season already. It seems that the causes are plausibly down to Martin, not just random factors that could happen to anyone.
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I suppose he was concerned about the momentum going Bagnaia’s way with 3 wins in a row, but if his tyres were shot and he was on the ragged edge 20 points would have been a lot better than none at this stage of the season, and Bagnaia now has the momentum of 4 successive Sunday race wins.
 
synn said:
In terms of raw talent, I give the edge to Quartararo, but in terms of using his head to mask his limitations and maximizing his strengths; Bagnaia is probably the best on the grid right now.
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Perhaps so, but if Bagnaia wasn’t the best as a total package FQ would have won 2 titles and Bagnaia would only be attempting to win a 2nd successive title this season.
 
michaelm said:
I suppose he was concerned about the momentum going Bagnaia’s way with 3 wins in a row, but if his tyres were shot and he was on the ragged edge 20 points would have been a lot better than none at this stage of the season, and Bagnaia now has the momentum of 4 successive Sunday race wins.
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Your point about taking the 20 points at a minimum being better is how I felt about the whole thing. I get wanting to increase the points lead, but why risk it all in only Round 9? It's not a smart strategy. I saw a quote where he says he will learn from this. That remains to be seen. I have no faith in him personally. He's fast on his day no doubt, but he now has to sit over the break thinking about this. I also think that Ducati can now throw all their weight behind Pecco for the title with the championship table change. Not that they would do anything malicious to Martin or anything, but as has been discussed, I think they would prefer their factory bike to win the championship over it going to Pramac..which is entirely understandable given sponsorship and commercial considerations. Martin didn't help himself in more ways than one meaning his off-track comments and demands, and his constant chucking the bike down the road when he needed to be upright.
 
I enjoyed all three races today.

The Moto3 and Veijer's early crash wasn't a preview for what was to come, luckily. Furusato rode the wheels of that bike, he'll be a good racer. The Rueda incident was scary, good that he managed it to bail. Alonso needs to want to throw it away, not to win this season.

The Moto2 was a good one as well. I saw an interview with Aldeguer before the start. He said that his size is a challenge for him in that class, that might not be one in MotoGP. Wonderful ride by Roberts, just a week after operating his collarbone. The Kalex was performing better than of late.

The Aprilias were a bit closer again, not so for the KTMs. Morbidelli was riding as a man possessed. Same with Marc. A bit of a shame that he needed to have his brother magically loose performance on his last few laps. Not good to see a tag team.

I believe Martin is still far from defeated. Marc keeps falling off, and more riders are giving it back to him. Bagnaia has also managed to fall off, leading, without pressure.

Now with the break, it's on to WSBK!
 
Well happy summer everybody, see ya after the break.

For sure I’m disappointed with Martin crashing out. He has no one to blame but himself. I continue to believe Martin will continue to learn. Interesting to see the crowd observations here from some that every time he or Pecco crashes, it’s a choke but whenever MM crashes there’s an excuse. He has a .... bike or not the newest one, etc.

Whatever, I’ll move on for the next few weeks and hope for a good end to the season.

Cheers all!
 
JPSLotus said:
MotoGP is already close to being a spec series because the bikes are designed entirely to a control tire that is a genuine grade A piece of sh*t. Michelin have been here since 2016 and still cannot make what I consider a reasonably safe tire, as well as a tire even capable of handling the modern GP bikes properly. Is Bridgestone the answer? I have no idea. But I bet you if Pirelli came in and made a tire, it'd be a thousand times better than anything the French have been doing for the last decade. I digress. My point is that when you look at the current FIM Technical Rules & Regulations, they've made it so there's nothing left to explore OTHER THAN the moronic ride height devices and aerodynamics.

There's still going to be technical challenges no matter what as improvements are still made year to year, just not on a level that's massive.

MotoGP is behaving too much like Formula 1 at the moment in my opinion. Everything I grew to hate about F1 started popping up in GP. The one thing I will give F1 credit for is that they at least openly admitted there was a dirty air problem, and following cars closely was causing massive losses in downforce so you couldn't necessarily attack unless your car was that much faster than the one in front. Dorna and the FIM just buried their head in the sand when they saw what Ducati started doing 7-8 years earlier. I mean we could debate all day whether letting Ducati play catch up with basically re-writing the technical regs was a good thing or not at large for GP. My biggest complaint was you could see where this was all heading and then boom in came the ride height devices that pretty much nuked the playing field. And for what?
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I think the tire manufacturers are boxed in by the GPC. Dorna were already fretting about front tire performance in 2007. It seems like the FIM or Dorna have been working to suppress tire performance since then, which means the manufacturers need something to work on. Bridgestone were trying to perfect grip balance, consistency and also maximize the operating conditions for the tires.

I’m unsure of Michelin’s mission, but they’ve always had excellent rear grip, which made them so successful before electronic rider aids. The grip balance of the current tires is poor, hence the obsession with front downforce, but I’m not surprised they don’t want to make the rear worse. A different manufacturer could improve the situation, but it would be happenstance, imo, not necessarily intent.

We’ll see what happens in 2027, but it could be a case of “be careful what you wish for”. Rider control of the sport is my preference, but it could lead to less spectacle. The brakes, tires, suspension and engine management are all so good that riders can push the entire race. The need for safety margin is considerably less than prior generations, and there is no guarantee that riders will choose to compete like Rossi.

I hoped for many years that the GPC would get their act together and focus on sport, but I don’t see it happening. It will be up to the riders to build the sport they want.
 
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Bern1 said:
Well happy summer everybody, see ya after the break.

For sure I’m disappointed with Martin crashing out. He has no one to blame but himself. I continue to believe Martin will continue to learn. Interesting to see the crowd observations here from some that every time he or Pecco crashes, it’s a choke but whenever MM crashes there’s an excuse. He has a .... bike or not the newest one, etc.

Whatever, I’ll move on for the next few weeks and hope for a good end to the season.

Cheers all!
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Hey I have been extremely complimentary of Francesco Bagnaia. He's such a fantastic rider to watch, much prefer watching him to Martin.

I don't recall ever saying Bagnaia choked. I only said it about Martin because there's enough evidence of him crashing out race leads and blowing championship leads that it does warrant the discussion of how much he chokes.

Marc gets leeway because he has 8 titles. HOWEVER, I would also say I've thought tons of his crashes were avoidable as I think most would agree. He also never choked away a world title though he did come VERY close at Valencia 2017 when he nearly lowsided right into the T1 gravel trap. But he saved it and became world champion and instead Mapping 8 Dovi crashed out of that one.
 

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