Sachsenring race!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 23 2009, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If you had read from where I was Quoting, I was reacting to Jum saying that CS is a better rider than VR. And of course you respond with a bunch of nonsense, for the arguments sake, of fans and their respective extreme ratios......

I want to like Casey for I respect his talent for riding a motorcycle, however his 'public character flaws' (as I do not know him personally) prevent me, and I'm sure many others (In OZ and Around the world) from doing this. How this can detract from Rossi's legend is beyond me, another point you created for argument no doubt. I offered nothing but the results in conclusion to the otherwise technical debate, for which you at least agreed with.

As for the Tall Poppy syndrome, of course it can/does exist outside OZ, we are all human dude. My point was giving reference to it. And from what I understand it relates to cutting down anyone, not just a successful Aussie. If I'm guilty of it with Stoner, then ask yourself why am I not cutting down Bayliss and Corser, Mick and Wayne or Garry McCoy. Surely most here are taller poppies?? Ask what do they have in common with each other, which Casey lacks.....don't give me the Extreme Rossi fan ......... either. I think ChrisV is one of the most professional, honest and sportsman like of any of the MotoGP field today, I wish for him greater success and a better bike to show us how good he really is.....

Time for some Viagra eyedrops mate......so you can take a good hard look at yourself!!

Thank you for the information regarding valentino's career, of which I was obviously unaware; I must have been in a fugue state when I used his career statistics to argue that stoner and lorenzo would do well to end with a third as many wins in a recent thread.

Apologies also for bringing my opinions re a pop psychology/journalistic cliche like the tall poppy syndrome and the status of valentino rossi in australia to a purely technical thread where such things had not previously been spuriously raised or generalised about by anyone.

It is hard for me to judge from a sample size of 18 posts whether you have a propensity for tall poppy cutting in general, and I had thought that in many of them you have been too busy cutting down stoner to devote much attention to anyone else, but I will take your word for it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 23 2009, 04:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but I think he had poor work ethic before he got "sick." Even the year he won the championship he was a slacker. The dude has the muscle tone of a 11 year old Ethiopian girl. Hit the gym once in a while for ..... sake. Maybe if he exercised once in a while he wouldn't get so much anxiety, errr sunday flu, before the races. He said as late as sunday that he still doesn't know what wrong with him. .... if you would have told me at the beginning of this season that Dani Pedrosa was tougher than Casey Stoner. I would of puked in <u>my</u> helmet. He is fast as ...., but he is with out a doubt the biggest ..... on the grid.

11 year old ethiopian girls would win every running medal over 1500m in your country if they were aloud to run with the dudes. Its not powerlifting, it's not a ....... big top circus strong man competition, and contrary to the latest SpikeTV viewer poll Brock Lesner would not make a good supersports rider. They are ....... jockeys and the entire motogp grid couldnt benchpress my .....

Should we start a new thread? "Why is Rossi such an obese motherf&%$r and is that why he lost in 2007?"

I can tell that you are a sports scientist and expert in sunday flu/chronic fatigue syndrome (and psychologist?) so maybe im out of my depth.

rossi isnt especially fat, hes tall, stoner isnt especially weak, hes sick and you arent especially informed, your just a fan

rossi isnt especially fat, hes tall, stoner isnt especially weak, hes sick and you arent especially informed, your just a fan
[/quote]

like me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 23 2009, 03:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Out of interest (oh god will this be flamed)

But if Ducati/Bridgestone got it right in 2007, did Yamaha/Bridgestone get it right in 2008?






Garry
Sure they did, after all they spent the whole of 07 playing catch up to get that advantage In 07 there were many stoner fans here who claimed it was "all" casey and refused to acknowledge the bike was fastest, they claim it may be fast in the straight but a "real dog" in the twistys. It did appear to twist and buck but not so bad he was crashing, i think this was the way the bike flexed out the forces and was the balance of riding it 100% and letting the electronics do its job. Now that part was all casey, no other rider could trust it enough while it bucked and put that much faith in it. I accept the m1 looks the easyest bike for most riders to trust compared to the duke but i diont accept it has an advantage over casey on his duke. He nows how to ride it to 100% and get the results. He can even podium it when he is so ill he can bearly walk or talk so i dont think he finds it to be the beast other riders do.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 23 2009, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure they did, after all they spent the whole of 07 playing catch up to get that advantage In 07 there were many stoner fans here who claimed it was "all" casey and refused to acknowledge the bike was fastest, they claim it may be fast in the straight but a "real dog" in the twistys. It did appear to twist and buck but not so bad he was crashing, i think this was the way the bike flexed out the forces and was the balance of riding it 100% and letting the electronics do its job. Now that part was all casey, no other rider could trust it enough while it bucked and put that much faith in it. I accept the m1 looks the easyest bike for most riders to trust compared to the duke but i diont accept it has an advantage over casey on his duke. He nows how to ride it to 100% and get the results. He can even podium it when he is so ill he can bearly walk or talk so i dont think he finds it to be the beast other riders do.


Rog, please butt out (and I mean that in the nicest way) as the question was not asked of you as I know your feelings but the question is/was targetted as part of an ongoing discussion

Answer dependent I even had my next statement ready but you have ruined it - damn you.



EDIT.
And just to shitstir some more - Jumkie appraises the 'Ducati was fastest' argument far better than I ever could so my comments on that stay in the shed.











Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 23 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rog, please butt out (and I mean that in the nicest way) as the question was not asked of you as I know your feelings but the question is/was targetted as part of an ongoing discussion

Answer dependent I even had my next statement ready but you have ruined it - damn you.



EDIT.
And just to shitstir some more - Jumkie appraises the 'Ducati was fastest' argument far better than I ever could so my comments on that stay in the shed.











Garry
go ahead and post your thoughts anyway, i wouldn't worry about my post as im probably on mosts ignore list anyway Truth hurts im told

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 23 2009, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>go ahead and post your thoughts anyway, i wouldn't worry about my post as im probably on mosts ignore list anyway Truth hurts im told


Cool, will do if the opportunity does arise.

Now to block you.










Garry

Fcuk - not only does Rossi get special identifiable tires - only one, one special set that had no markings conveniently supplied to him - but now he has to respond to reports that Lorenzo's bike in inferior -

Rossi also denied Lorenzo did not get the same bike upgrades as him.

"That's not true, the bikes are identical," he told Gazzetta dello Sport. "In any case, it's normal that I have with Yamaha a relationship he doesn't have: when I arrived in 2004 I found a bike that hadn't won for 12 years and it was crap.

"Now we have the best bike. Lorenzo can't pretend to arrive, win, and in two years be as important as Valentino."

He added: "It's easy to be in his conditions: he fights against Valentino Rossi, one of the strongest riders ever, so he goes for it and if he loses he tries again. Meanwhile, this year we are 6-3 in my favour. Good, I like that. He's a tough nut with enormous talent."

What, Rossi confesses he has the best bike? This may not fit the fanboy arguments though?

Perhaps Lorenzo is a better rider than Rossi already if we factor in the Rossi attitude to sharing with a team mate….than again have they pulled down the garage wall between them yet? No wonder Lorenzo is holding out for a “brighter” deal with Yamaha. I wonder what else he wants written into the contract, the same bike perhaps or even the same tires?

At least there is no wall between Stoner and Haden, but there appears to be a few disappointed Haden fans that choose to attack Stoner so as to feel good about the current finishing down the order predicament. Haden requires more time than most

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77094

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 22 2009, 10:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Strange that he was able to pick his bike up without assistance and quickly enough to still finish second when he put it down at laguna seca last year, something rossi was unable to do at assen. Also strange that his success on the 2007 ducati appeared to involve basically wrestling the bike into submission, which the other ducati riders did not seem to be able to manage; perhaps they were too strong.

If anything I am agreement with lex that he may have obssessively over trained under pressure from improvement by his competitors.

+ 2

Good Post.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 23 2009, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sure they did, after all they spent the whole of 07 playing catch up to get that advantage In 07 there were many stoner fans here who claimed it was "all" casey and refused to acknowledge the bike was fastest, they claim it may be fast in the straight but a "real dog" in the twistys. It did appear to twist and buck but not so bad he was crashing, i think this was the way the bike flexed out the forces and was the balance of riding it 100% and letting the electronics do its job. Now that part was all casey, no other rider could trust it enough while it bucked and put that much faith in it. I accept the m1 looks the easyest bike for most riders to trust compared to the duke but i diont accept it has an advantage over casey on his duke. He nows how to ride it to 100% and get the results. He can even podium it when he is so ill he can bearly walk or talk so i dont think he finds it to be the beast other riders do.
The fact remains that stoner had a season in 2007 that matched the best seasons of the greats, all of whom were probably also on fairly decent bikes, and where he basically did not make a significant riding error. To be a great himself he obviously needs to do it more than once, which admittedly he does not show much sign of doing just at present. In any case as an aussie bike racing fan it gave me considerable pleasure, and as I said last year if he is the new wayne gardner rather than the new mick doohan that is still pretty good.

As regards the technical superiority issue, I still think one of lex's arguments has not been convincingly refuted. As you know I did not then have and do not now have any objection to rossi having the same bridgestone tyres as stoner, but it still may be the case that the particular tyre integral to ducati's and stoner's success in 2007 is no longer available to them, whether by deliberate action or not.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (narstynarnst @ Jul 23 2009, 04:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>11 year old ethiopian girls would win every running medal over 1500m in your country if they were aloud to run with the dudes. Its not powerlifting, it's not a ....... big top circus strong man competition, and contrary to the latest SpikeTV viewer poll Brock Lesner would not make a good supersports rider. They are ....... jockeys and the entire motogp grid couldnt benchpress my .....

Should we start a new thread? "Why is Rossi such an obese motherf&%$r and is that why he lost in 2007?"

I can tell that you are a sports scientist and expert in sunday flu/chronic fatigue syndrome (and psychologist?) so maybe im out of my depth.

rossi isnt especially fat, hes tall, stoner isnt especially weak, hes sick and you arent especially informed, your just a fan

Ain't it the truth?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 23 2009, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The fact remains that stoner had a season in 2007 that matched the best seasons of the greats, all of whom were probably also on fairly decent bikes, and where he basically did not make a significant riding error. To be a great himself he obviously needs to do it more than once, which admittedly he does not show much sign of doing just at present. In any case as an aussie bike racing fan it gave me considerable pleasure, and as I said last year if he is the new wayne gardner rather than the new mick doohan that is still pretty good.

As regards the technical superiority issue, I still think one of lex's arguments has not been convincingly refuted. As you know I did not then have and do not now have any objection to rossi having the same bridgestone tyres as stoner, but it still may be the case that the particular tyre integral to ducati's and stoner's success in 2007 is no longer available to them, whether by deliberate action or not.
You may be right but its quite ironic. The michillin was always known as a very track/bike focused tyre hence the need for saturday night specials. When these were outlawed it became obvious how the more broader focused bridgstones were and now had the advantage. Its not that bridgstone could not do or afford the logistical nightmare of doing saturday night specials but more they didn't need to. So its quite ironic if ducati needed such as integral tyre that was so specificly suited to there bike, that was more a michilin problem with there design.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 22 2009, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i see i was right to question your motives

so you consider the ducati to be like a mini and the yam to be the porsche ? your bias and hatred is verging on the bizarre

Thanks Rog. If you think I am bizarre then I know I am close to the truth! From a post above that quotes Rossi then unfortunately your beloved is also bizarre as he too believes that he has the best bike.

Still smile to myself that you can't grasp the concept of different maximum potential and that your response to the mini / porsche analogy was what it was. Your bias and hatred IS bizarre.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Jul 23 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thanks Rog. If you think I am bizarre then I know I am close to the truth! From a post above that quotes Rossi then unfortunately your beloved is also bizarre as he too believes that he has the best bike.

Still smile to myself that you can't grasp the concept of different maximum potential and that your response to the mini / porsche analogy was what it was. Your bias and hatred IS bizarre.
Ive not said the yam isn't the best bike ! try reading the thread rather than just the post that have quoted you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I accept the m1 looks the easyest bike for most riders to trust compared to the duke but i diont accept it has an advantage over casey on his duke.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (narstynarnst @ Jul 23 2009, 03:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>11 year old ethiopian girls would win every running medal over 1500m in your country if they were aloud to run with the dudes. Its not powerlifting, it's not a ....... big top circus strong man competition, and contrary to the latest SpikeTV viewer poll Brock Lesner would not make a good supersports rider. They are ....... jockeys and the entire motogp grid couldnt benchpress my .....

Should we start a new thread? "Why is Rossi such an obese motherf&%$r and is that why he lost in 2007?"

I can tell that you are a sports scientist and expert in sunday flu/chronic fatigue syndrome (and psychologist?) so maybe im out of my depth.
rossi isnt especially fat, hes tall, stoner isnt especially weak, hes sick and you arent especially informed, your just a fan
The Stoner fans are bringing it today, I guess the farther away from sunday it is the better you guys feel.
And actually i am am a sports personal trainer, so I do have knowledge on this issue. It is more than possible to workout and not gain any weight. As a matter of fact people actually workout to lose weight. Nothing that little girl could do would make him as big as Lesner. I workout 4-5 days a week and way less than 160 lbs. with a food intake over 2000 calories a day. Now I am not saying he needs to go that far, but riding a rode bike and doing some push ups would go along way to bettering him from his fatigue, and .....-... attitude. Goggle core strength and tell me that would help him out. It would at least make it easier for him to keep his cookies down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 23 2009, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So its quite ironic if ducati needed such as integral tyre that was so specificly suited to there bike, that was more a michilin problem with there design.
This is the obvious reason for his current malaise; he is lying awake at night thinking "I can't feel the front! I can't feel the front!". Not why I would tend to be awake in his particular circumstance, but it takes all kinds .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 22 2009, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>CS does put the effort in but agreed that this year his comparitive number of laps have been lacking, but he has also been recovering in pre-season from the wrist and who really knows when the illness started to affect his strength, so he has had some level of issues.

It is also true to say that his style in practice has been to put down the fast lap, watch the competition and then go out faster as/if required. Thsi style served him very well through 2006 - 2008 as he generally was quick at the end of the seesion because he had saved his qualifiers. But, for 2009 there are no qualifiers and they have to save tyres so the reason for less laps couls well be the need to simply save on tyres for the race and it could be that his style uses tyres more.

It could also be as simple (for him) as why change a successful formula and one that has served him well as he still qualifies most times on the front row (and one can only have room for so many BMW's).

Your assumption that he has a poor work ethic is based on teh fact that he can cut a fast lap and then chooses to sit out the session - is that correct?
Or is it that he can cut a fast lap but at the end of the race is not first?

If the former, then I think you over-react or over judge things as not all riders cut lots of laps in practice as it is just their style. If the latter than as the old saying goes, being quick on Satirday does not mean being first, basically a race is different and as you would know practice cannot truly replicate race conditions.

To accuse him of a poor work ethic is harsh given that the guy has been known to ride hundreds of laps in testing (not 2009 admittedly) and to judge him simply on 2009 is also harsh as he has been recovering or ill at times. If he genuinely had a poor work ethic he would be incapable of riding the machine and achieving any results at all just as the factory would no doubt get rid of him were that the case.






Gaz
Very good gaz. I say he has poor work ethic you say it is just his style. You make some good points. But he still sounds like a lazy stoner to me.

Yes I agree that the way he runs practice and qp are a big reason I say he has poor work ethic. Also his lack of muscle tone, and his fading late in races. I know I know the fatigue is caused by his unknown sickness. Well I am saying his unknown sickness is just fatigue. And the cure? Exercise. Not powerlifting.....just exercise. To think he doesn't need to go to all these specialist just to be told they have no idea whats wrong with him. I can diagnose him for free, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU, YOU ARE LAZY!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 23 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Stoner fans are bringing it today, I guess the farther away from sunday it is the better you guys feel.
And actually i am am a sports personal trainer, so I do have knowledge on this issue. It is more than possible to workout and not gain any weight. As a matter of fact people actually workout to lose weight. Nothing that little girl could do would make him as big as Lesner. I workout 4-5 days a week and way less than 160 lbs. with a food intake over 2000 calories a day. Now I am not saying he needs to go that far, but riding a rode bike and doing some push ups would go along way to bettering him from his fatigue, and .....-... attitude. Goggle core strength and tell me that would help him out. It would at least make it easier for him to keep his cookies down.

Stoner is well reported in australia anyway to be a devotee of physical training and among his "whinges" concerning his wrist last year was that the scaphoid problem and consequent surgery interfered with this.

As a professional trainer you would also be aware that the really elite endurance athletes sometimes become immunosuppressed and prone to viral infections etc during heavy training.

My opinion which admittedly is subject to my bias in his favour is in agreement with lex's that he is more likely to have overtrained than undertrained. Prior to his scaphoid problems last year and illness this year whether they are illusory or not the evidence would seem to point to him being unusually strong for his size as attested by the alacrity with which he picked up his bike without assistance at laguna seca last year and his general ability to wrestle the ducati beast.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 23 2009, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner is well reported in australia anyway to be a devotee of physical training and among his "whinges" concerning his wrist last year was that the scaphoid problem and consequent surgery interfered with this.

As a professional trainer you would also be aware that the really elite endurance athletes sometimes become immunosuppressed and prone to viral infections etc during heavy training.

So now you are trying to tell me casey has staff infection? If he had a viral infection it would be diagnosed.

My opinion which admittedly is subject to my bias in his favour is in agreement with lex's that he is more likely to have overtrained than undertrained. Prior to his scaphoid problems last year and illness this year whether they are illusory or not the evidence would seem to point to him being unusually strong for his size as attested by the alacrity with which he picked up his bike without assistance at laguna seca last year and his general ability to wrestle the ducati beast.
Lol because he picked his bike up out of a gravel trap. First the gravel is not the same everywhere, and depending how the bike is laying in it, it could be easier or harder to get the bike out of the gravel. Also Casey's lower center of gravity would make it easier to get the bike upright on his own. And please he over trained? Do you know how stupid that sounds? When? When he was laid up with the scaphoid or while he is taking it easy due to his illness? Beside I am sure he would have his own personal trainer to make sure he wasn't "over training." Try a new theory cause that on is .....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 23 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And please he over trained? Do you know how stupid that sounds? When? When he was laid up with the scaphoid or while he is taking it easy due to his illness? Beside I am sure he would have his own personal trainer to make sure he wasn't "over training." Try a new theory cause that on is .....
Perhaps between recovery from the surgery and developing the illness; he could do lots of stuff not involving his wrist anyway. He certainly showed few signs of physical frailty in 2007.

My understanding is that these guys get fairly extreme heart rate responses, can dehydrate significantly during races etc. I am also led to believe rossi does little training, but his heart rate probably doesn't go above a hundred for anything.