Sachsenring race!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jul 22 2009, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The second look down on the front straight I interpreted to be a signal to the crew. It might be my imagination, but it seems like Stoner usually gives a head bob or some kind of signal to the crew flying down the straight. I think it's a Ducati thing because I'm sure I saw Bayliss do it a lot last year as well.

Signal what? Please explain.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>L8! You have created a monster!
yeah, well donr L8, got any more mates like this great stuff mdub

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Signal what? Please explain.


Who knows?

Maybe looking back and down at the tire means "Sorry guys for the blowing the corner, but I think the tire is cooked. Don't worry, I'll keep it upright and take the points for P4. Also, I'm thinking no more German food tonight and we go get some BBQ or something, ask Adriana. And no more ....... ravioli either." or something like that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 02:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jul 22 2009, 12:31 PM)
The second look down on the front straight I interpreted to be a signal to the crew. It might be my imagination, but it seems like Stoner usually gives a head bob or some kind of signal to the crew flying down the straight. I think it's a Ducati thing because I'm sure I saw Bayliss do it a lot last year as well.

Signal what? Please explain.
He was trying to tell them "...., my rubber just broke." I got he same impression as Parc. The first look back after he blew it no big deal. But I also notice that he looked back at the tire while passing his crew as a sign of there is something wrong. If you watch on speed channel you would have missed this because they went to commercial during this. Why doesn't everyone in America pay for motogp.com?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He was trying to tell them "...., my rubber just broke." I got he same impression as Parc. The first look back after he blew it no big deal. But I also notice that he looked back at the tire while passing his crew as a sign of there is something wrong. If you watch on speed channel you would have missed this because they went to commercial during this. Why doesn't everyone in America pay for motogp.com?
yeah plus the way he ran his fingers over the tyre in the garage then shuffled away like grandpa Simpson. obviously something he didn't like.

speed channel ? hahaha lolz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but I think he had poor work ethic before he got "sick." Even the year he won the championship he was a slacker. The dude has the muscle tone of a 11 year old Ethiopian girl. Hit the gym once in a while for ..... sake. Maybe if he exercised once in a while he wouldn't get so much anxiety, errr sunday flu, before the races. He said as late as sunday that he still doesn't know what wrong with him. .... if you would have told me at the beginning of this season that Dani Pedrosa was tougher than Casey Stoner. I would of puked in <u>my</u> helmet. He is fast as ...., but he is with out a doubt the biggest ..... on the grid.

You saying you know the state of Stoner's muscle tone (without actually
ever having physically examined him) - is on par with whatisname saying
he can see how far Stoner's throttle is open - from 100 yards away.
It's just juvenile speculation. These guys are all pretty much jockey sized
and being in good shape for purposes of Moto GP racing - doesn't mean
the guy is going to built like The Hulk. It's well known that many racers
have worked hard over the last few years to slim down in order to be
more competitive on the 800s. As skinny as Stoner is - he has still
beat Rossi more than any other rider in last two years.
The .... you're writing above sounds like it's coming
from some 16 yr old high school jock.

Oh - and when you can be as sick as Stoner - puking in your helmet
and still come in 3rd - less than a second off the pace of Valentino Rossi
- then, and only then, do you get the right to call him a ...... That's
some big talk from an arm-chair rider whose never even participated
in a local club race. On the internet everybody is ....... bold.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tell me what parts of my argument do not make sense (point by point). If you do that, then I'll agree with you.

Well Jumkie, let's try!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do you insist that is was so easy for Stoner to negotiate the turns (all the visual evidence points to the opposite)?

Never said that, man! On the contrary I said Stoner was great to stay with Rossi in the turns, and with great I meant his bike wasn't as good as Rossi's as far as handling. He was good to stay with Rossi and then use his ducati's little extra speed to pass him in the straights.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why do you insist that it took extra effort for Rossi to negotiate the turns. I content that the turns were easier for Rossi, and the evidence supports this. Why? Because he did catch up on the turns, hence the bike handled better. Are you going to say he caught up because he was running on the edge?

<u>I know Rossi's bike handled (and still handles) better than stoner's</u>, never said the contrary. I just said that passing in the turns shows more of the rider's ability. How can you not get passed in a straight if a bike is faster than yours? Rossi had (and still has) an advantage in the turns but he did some great manouvres which didn't rely just upon the bike. In the end I was just trying to say how frustrating could be to get passed in a straight in which you can't do anything. At least, if you get passed in a turn you can say the other rider is better than you at breaking, or finding the right line...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If your argument is correct, then all of Rossi's wins this year are rubbish because he is clearly on the "best bike". As you say, why should Stoner risk riding on the edge only for Ross's Yamaha to out perform Casey's efforts? So this title is a farce. That is using your LOGIC.

Well, to end this post: first of all I never insisted on anything. Second, I said in '07 Stoner was the best rider, and never said his wins were rubbish. So, are you sure you read my post?

What I really wanted to say was I think that:

1) In his best shape (maybe in '04, '08 or this year for Rossi and maybe in '07 for Stoner or, again, considering the rider's full potential as far as we can imagine) Rossi is better than Stoner.
2) In '07 Stoner was the best rider (independently from the bike) with the (then) best bike (all compromises b/n turns and straights considered).

Those are my opinion Jumkie. I was surprised by the tone of you post, I don't think I wrote any aggressive stuff... Bye!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 22 2009, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i dont doubt he is sick, but there's plenty here stating the yam has such a big advantage over the duc that if that were the case he cant be that ill. either he is ill but the bike is good enough or the bike is off par and casey is not that ill. if it were both he would be way down the pack, surley. thats my point.


I don't know who here said the bike was off par. Not me.
It's handling is eccentric as hell - but I don't doubt for a
minute that it's competitive - in the hands of a healthy
Stoner. Look at the way Stoner quickly caught up and
went to the front at Sachenring and passed Rossi.
But if the red-headed kid has chronic fatigue - then
there's no way he's gonna have the stamina to stay
at the front. He said after the race that he knew in
advance there was no way he could hold off Rossi
and Lorenzo for any length of time. I reckon you
have to give him credit for trying.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Don't you dare my friend, don't you dare. Not a chance, I'm too ....... lazy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"...., my rubber just broke."Well that certainly would explain the pregnancy theory.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 22 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know who here said the bike was off par. Not me.
It's handling is eccentric as hell - but I don't doubt for a
minute that it's competitive - in the hands of a healthy
Stoner. Look at the way Stoner quickly caught up and
went to the front at Sachenring and passed Rossi.
But if the red-headed kid has chronic fatigue - then
there's no way he's gonna have the stamina to stay
at the front. He said after the race that he knew in
advance there was no way he could hold off Rossi
and Lorenzo for any length of time. I reckon you
have to give him credit for trying.
you only have to read through this thread and a few other recent threads to see the "the yam is by far the best bike" ect ect comments mate. i agree with your above post by the way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ah, so what did I learn? When you implied that Casey (or the pope) where lying about TC, what you really meant to say is he should just fess up, since he is actually getting the best out of his machine, and there is no shame in that. Oh-kay

Babel, I see you want this whole thing to disappear. But please, don't quit debating me, its very fun for me (hope for you too seeing that you're always on the losing end).

Roll on Donny!

English might not be my native language but the way you twist my words are absolutly fasinating.
Make one wonder if we are communicating on the same language. I don't have the time or vocabulary to go into a lengty language argument here but when I say "I don't care if Stoner or the Pope him self.... " it does not imply that stoner or the pope are lying. It means that they would be lying in the EXTREEMLY UNLIKELY event that they tried to express the oposite of what I said. By putting the Pope in there I clearly make sure that the referred persons are not at all in doubt. It's a valid debating technique in all the other languages I know and I'm pretty certain it's valid in UK and i US unless you had it removed under the Bush regime as it was to difficult for him to grasp. I can see now why that might have been an advantage but it's not very likely, is it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Parc Ferme @ Jul 22 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Who knows?

Maybe looking back and down at the tire means[/i] "Sorry guys for the blowing the corner, but I think the tire is cooked. Don't worry, I'll keep it upright and take the points for P4. Also, I'm thinking no more German food tonight and we go get some BBQ or something, ask Adriana. And no more ....... ravioli either." or something like that.

Here is a gift to the Stoner fans:

Oh, I see. Maybe he learned it from Rossi then. (As it seems they are copying him with the leg out thing too, eh?) Rossi at Motegi started that “signal” you speak of in 07. You remember it right? The difference was he was looking at the front tire instead of the rear for some phantom problem. I guess they had not perfected the "signal" communication back then though, because Rossi ended up having to the pit (I guess he had to tell them verbally about the BBQ, or something), ask Uccio. I guess he meant to tell them "sorry guys, I blew the entire season, and now I have to pit like a lame and pretend something is wrong with my tire." I'm sure you remember it now that I have reminded you, right? Its the round where Casey won the title, and Rossi pitted in shame, not even finishing the race.

Yeah, see what I mean? For everything one can dish at Stoner, Rossi has also done. Amazing the parallel don't you think?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 22 2009, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>English might not be my native language but the way you twist my words are absolutly fasinating.
Make one wonder if we are communicating on the same language. I don't have the time or vocabulary to go into a lengty language argument here but when I say "I don't care if Stoner or the Pope him self.... " it does not imply that stoner or the pope are lying. It means that they would be lying in the EXTREEMLY UNLIKELY event that they tried to express the oposite of what I said. By putting the Pope in there I clearly make sure that the referred persons are not at all in doubt. It's a valid debating technique in all the other languages I know and I'm pretty certain it's valid in UK and i US unless you had it removed under the Bush regime as it was to difficult for him to grasp. I can see now why that might have been an advantage but it's not very likely, is it?

I'm sorry, I think you knocked on the wrong door, we are not buying any ........ today, thanks for offering though.



.


Ok, ok, Babel, maybe its just a "lost in translation thing".


EDIT: Sorry babel, I forgot to mention, but don't go away, I have a great quote for you. Just give me a minute and I'll pull it up. I think you will find it very interesting...

Ok Babel, I'm back. Click HERE.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 22 2009, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You saying you know the state of Stoner's muscle tone (without actually
ever having physically examined him) - is on par with whatisname saying
he can see how far Stoner's throttle is open - from 100 yards away.
It's just juvenile speculation. These guys are all pretty much jockey sized
and being in good shape for purposes of Moto GP racing - doesn't mean
the guy is going to built like The Hulk. It's well known that many racers
have worked hard over the last few years to slim down in order to be
more competitive on the 800s. As skinny as Stoner is - he has still
beat Rossi more than any other rider in last two years.
The .... you're writing above sounds like it's coming
from some 16 yr old high school jock.

Oh - and when you can be as sick as Stoner - puking in your helmet
and still come in 3rd - less than a second off the pace of Valentino Rossi
- then, and only then, do you get the right to call him a ...... That's
some big talk from an arm-chair rider whose never even participated
in a local club race. On the internet everybody is ....... bold.
Come on anyone can see he isn't bringing two guns and a six pack to the party. I don't need to give someone a physical exam to know if they have any muscles or not. We aren't talking about babel spotting a hand from 100 yards away. We are talking about a person we can see video's of at any moment of any time. Just because you work out doesn't necessarily mean they are going to gain weight. Why working out helps with prevention of injuries and FATIGUE. I am going to take a guess that you don't go to the gym much?

To be fair I said he was the biggest ..... on the grid and a fast .....(once again that just help my pregnancy theory). Also you don't know my level of experience on a bike. Not that you are far off. Relax guy don't get so mad.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its the round where Casey won the title, and Rossi pitted in shame, not even finishing the race.

Yeah, see what I mean? For everything one can dish at Stoner, Rossi has also done. Amazing the parallel don't you think?

Let’s see… parallels… 101 wins, Nop… 8 Championships, nop… I don’t know, not sure about these parallel things!

And Rossi did finish that Motegi 2007 race making 3 points, saving just a little bit of pride.

http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/2007/JPN/MotoGP

But we have to agree, this bike changing rule is not Rossi’s best thing. In fact, thanks Jumkie for reminding us another of the 2007 Rossi’s justifications… so many rule changes including the ‘Changing bikes when declared wet’ race. There we go, now we have another point of argument for defending Rossi not winning 2007.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jul 22 2009, 04:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let’s see… parallels… 101 wins, Nop… 8 Championships, nop… I don’t know, not sure about these parallel things!

Parallel in the scenario described you clown. So your answer is to bring up a tangent that is irrelevant? Ah V, are you running out of steam?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 23 2009, 02:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I contend Rossi won at Jerez because his bike handled better, we can say his bike had an “unfair advantage” in the turns (which is 90% of all tracks). So Ducati, knowing they couldn’t compete with Rossi on the turns (because his bike was so much better in handling) decided to compromise handling and increase straight-line speed. ITS AMAZING THAT PEOPLE REMEMBER STONER BLASTING PAST BUT DO NOT REMEMBER HIS BIKE PROTESTING, BUCKING, CONVULSING AT EVERY TURN! Answer this, why would the bike have to behave like this??? Why? Answer: Because it did NOT handle as good as the Yamaha! But all you can remember is the image of the straight? Why can’t you also remember the images on the turns? Tell me how this does NOT make sense? Tell me how everything in the evidence record does NOT point to this contention that I am explaining to you? You will not be able to do it.

If your argument is correct, then all of Rossi's wins this year are rubbish because he is clearly on the "best bike". As you say, why should Stoner risk riding on the edge only for Ross's Yamaha to out perform Casey's efforts? So this title is a farce. That is using your LOGIC.

I completely agree-almost. Rossi won the second race because he is the superior rider, and the duck/briges don't like Herez-still don't....and if you wish to argue this than all I can offer is stats because at the end of the day.....subtle reminder

Rossi
101 GP victories
8 World Titles- 3 Manufacturers
6 x Moto gp
1x 500cc- Honda
4 x 990cc- 2 Honda, 2 Yamaka
1 x 800cc- Yamaka
1 x 250cc- Aprilia
1 x 125cc- Aprilia

Stoner
a Lot less Victories
1 World Title- 1 Manufacturer
1 x 800cc-Ducati

Until CS improves this ratio quite massively. Then anyone who says CS is a better rider than VR is pissing into a hurricane, and really comes off looking like they have a disease common in Aussies called the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'. It seems some here have their blunt machetes hacking at that poppy made of hardwood.

People can argue that Casey's dominance in 07 was out of the blue, which it was. The bike was new, no real development by anyone, 800's were new. Ducati never dominated MotoGP before. Stoner never really dominated any other class before.

The technical debate whilst interesting, can lead to an exercise in futility. Where bias allows for all kinds of critiquing to suit the bias. Laguna Seca 08 and subsequent races since, for me, proved what we all know is true. VR is the best rider, the most dangerous competitor, and the only one who will really put it all on the line to win.....all of the GOAT's in any sport have a mental toughness far beyond their competitors.

The Governator has some of the best one-liners ever, one of which can be found in a rather hilarious doco called Pumping Iron, made at the peak of Arnolds BB career.
'If Louis (Ferrigno-1st Hulk) comes here in as good as shape, or better as I am, then I will spend one night with him in his room and talk him out of winning!'

At Laguna08 VR talked Casey out of winning, or wanting to be involved in a close race with him. And of course its not the first time he has done this, gibbers and Max. Same old argument.

I guess Casey is getting so much attention because he is in a pretty small group of 5 who have actually beaten the GOAT to a world title, he just did it when we all thought it couldn't happen again.....