You may all find this kind of strange but on a couple of occasions I have actually stuck my leg out while riding around corners in town. For sure it is because I watch the boys cornering closely to see how they ride but just unconsciously I have done it and it even surprises me. I can say that for me it gives you something to do while you are waiting to turn in. It's like that little program your CPU does while you are doing nothing. Your brain just needs a filler to keep it involved in what's happening or it will start to wander. My dog btw also lifts his leg whilst doing the business but I have yet to unconsciously copy his behavior much to the wife's happiness.
Sachsenring race!!!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 22 2009, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>English might not be my native language but the way you twist my words are absolutly fasinating.
I smell whining
I smell whining
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come on anyone can see he isn't bringing two guns and a six pack to the party. I don't need to give someone a physical exam to know if they have any muscles or not. We aren't talking about babel spotting a hand from 100 yards away. We are talking about a person we can see video's of at any moment of any time. Just because you work out doesn't necessarily mean they are going to gain weight. Why working out helps with prevention of injuries and FATIGUE. I am going to take a guess that you don't go to the gym much?
<span style="color:#000000
Never been big on the gym per se. But I am a former (mid-pack) club racer and I still run every
morning and do a regular work-out. Going to the gym is great for confidence and stamina
but it's not a guarantee against viral or stress related chronic fatigue. Look at Matt Mladin.
Ben Bostrom too if I'm not mistaken. Both are well-muscled, and toned guys with heavy-duty
personal trainers and both have had horrendous bouts with chronic fatigue.
To be fair I said he was the biggest ..... on the grid and a fast .....(once again that just help my pregnancy theory). Also you don't know my level of experience on a bike. Not that you are far off. Relax guy don't get so mad.
That's better
<span style="color:#000000
Never been big on the gym per se. But I am a former (mid-pack) club racer and I still run every
morning and do a regular work-out. Going to the gym is great for confidence and stamina
but it's not a guarantee against viral or stress related chronic fatigue. Look at Matt Mladin.
Ben Bostrom too if I'm not mistaken. Both are well-muscled, and toned guys with heavy-duty
personal trainers and both have had horrendous bouts with chronic fatigue.
To be fair I said he was the biggest ..... on the grid and a fast .....(once again that just help my pregnancy theory). Also you don't know my level of experience on a bike. Not that you are far off. Relax guy don't get so mad.
That's better
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 22 2009, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Parallel in the scenario described you clown. So your answer is to bring up a tangent that is irrelevant? Ah V, are you running out of steam?
No man, never… We are just a bunch of stubborn mules me thinks! So it will be the never ending story.
No man, never… We are just a bunch of stubborn mules me thinks! So it will be the never ending story.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jul 22 2009, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No man, never… We are just a bunch of stubborn mules me thinks! So it will be the never ending story.
Verdad!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jul 22 2009, 05:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You may all find this kind of strange but on a couple of occasions I have actually stuck my leg out while riding around corners in town. For sure it is because I watch the boys cornering closely to see how they ride but just unconsciously I have done it and it even surprises me. I can say that for me it gives you something to do while you are waiting to turn in. It's like that little program your CPU does while you are doing nothing. Your brain just needs a filler to keep it involved in what's happening or it will start to wander. My dog btw also lifts his leg whilst doing the business but I have yet to unconsciously copy his behavior much to the wife's happiness.
Wrong thread. Go HERE.
Wrong thread. Go HERE.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 23 2009, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Until CS improves this ratio quite massively. Then anyone who says CS is a better rider than VR is pissing into a hurricane, and really comes off looking like they have a disease common in Aussies called the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'. It seems some here have their blunt machetes hacking at that poppy made of hardwood.
....... brilliant!!!!! and by the way Jumkie is pissing alot into hurricane for last couple of days.
....... brilliant!!!!! and by the way Jumkie is pissing alot into hurricane for last couple of days.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Jul 22 2009, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well if it's both neither can be that bad seeing stoner is still finishing 3rd or 4th every week. He is just not far enough behind for there to be any major issues with the bike if he is as ill as there saying.
Roger, good point but......
One could well argue that the bike is in fact quite some distance behind the Yamaha (and possibly Honda). It could be argued that Stoner is the difference and is simply over-riding the bike and as a result making it look better than it actually is. Further, it could be argued that the efforts he is expending to produce the results required to keep him in the championship and produce the results on this bike are what could be leading to the health problems.
Basically, it is possible that the bike is a dog (or somehat of one) and Stoner's health issues are being caused by his sheer will and need to be competitive on that dog. We all get tired when we overexert ourselves and that may be happenning here.
Now is it, I do not know and am simply hypothesising (and responding to your comments which are valid) but it does sound possible given the clear superiority of the two FIAT Yamahas in visual 'rideability' (ie. they look far easier to ride). Personally I guess in truth we will never know.
Gaz
Roger, good point but......
One could well argue that the bike is in fact quite some distance behind the Yamaha (and possibly Honda). It could be argued that Stoner is the difference and is simply over-riding the bike and as a result making it look better than it actually is. Further, it could be argued that the efforts he is expending to produce the results required to keep him in the championship and produce the results on this bike are what could be leading to the health problems.
Basically, it is possible that the bike is a dog (or somehat of one) and Stoner's health issues are being caused by his sheer will and need to be competitive on that dog. We all get tired when we overexert ourselves and that may be happenning here.
Now is it, I do not know and am simply hypothesising (and responding to your comments which are valid) but it does sound possible given the clear superiority of the two FIAT Yamahas in visual 'rideability' (ie. they look far easier to ride). Personally I guess in truth we will never know.
Gaz
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree
What I don't understand is why he doesn't give more effort. He puts down fast laps early on in practice and qp and then goes and takes a nap. And if someone puts a better lap down he stumbles back on track and trys to put down a faster lap. I have been watching him do that for a couple years now. And on fridays and saturdays he has been fast and sc fans are talking their ..... But come sundays of late all you guys do is eat crow.
And thats the main reason I don't like that dude, because to me he seems to have poor work ethic.
CS does put the effort in but agreed that this year his comparitive number of laps have been lacking, but he has also been recovering in pre-season from the wrist and who really knows when the illness started to affect his strength, so he has had some level of issues.
It is also true to say that his style in practice has been to put down the fast lap, watch the competition and then go out faster as/if required. Thsi style served him very well through 2006 - 2008 as he generally was quick at the end of the seesion because he had saved his qualifiers. But, for 2009 there are no qualifiers and they have to save tyres so the reason for less laps couls well be the need to simply save on tyres for the race and it could be that his style uses tyres more.
It could also be as simple (for him) as why change a successful formula and one that has served him well as he still qualifies most times on the front row (and one can only have room for so many BMW's).
Your assumption that he has a poor work ethic is based on teh fact that he can cut a fast lap and then chooses to sit out the session - is that correct?
Or is it that he can cut a fast lap but at the end of the race is not first?
If the former, then I think you over-react or over judge things as not all riders cut lots of laps in practice as it is just their style. If the latter than as the old saying goes, being quick on Satirday does not mean being first, basically a race is different and as you would know practice cannot truly replicate race conditions.
To accuse him of a poor work ethic is harsh given that the guy has been known to ride hundreds of laps in testing (not 2009 admittedly) and to judge him simply on 2009 is also harsh as he has been recovering or ill at times. If he genuinely had a poor work ethic he would be incapable of riding the machine and achieving any results at all just as the factory would no doubt get rid of him were that the case.
Gaz
What I don't understand is why he doesn't give more effort. He puts down fast laps early on in practice and qp and then goes and takes a nap. And if someone puts a better lap down he stumbles back on track and trys to put down a faster lap. I have been watching him do that for a couple years now. And on fridays and saturdays he has been fast and sc fans are talking their ..... But come sundays of late all you guys do is eat crow.
And thats the main reason I don't like that dude, because to me he seems to have poor work ethic.
CS does put the effort in but agreed that this year his comparitive number of laps have been lacking, but he has also been recovering in pre-season from the wrist and who really knows when the illness started to affect his strength, so he has had some level of issues.
It is also true to say that his style in practice has been to put down the fast lap, watch the competition and then go out faster as/if required. Thsi style served him very well through 2006 - 2008 as he generally was quick at the end of the seesion because he had saved his qualifiers. But, for 2009 there are no qualifiers and they have to save tyres so the reason for less laps couls well be the need to simply save on tyres for the race and it could be that his style uses tyres more.
It could also be as simple (for him) as why change a successful formula and one that has served him well as he still qualifies most times on the front row (and one can only have room for so many BMW's).
Your assumption that he has a poor work ethic is based on teh fact that he can cut a fast lap and then chooses to sit out the session - is that correct?
Or is it that he can cut a fast lap but at the end of the race is not first?
If the former, then I think you over-react or over judge things as not all riders cut lots of laps in practice as it is just their style. If the latter than as the old saying goes, being quick on Satirday does not mean being first, basically a race is different and as you would know practice cannot truly replicate race conditions.
To accuse him of a poor work ethic is harsh given that the guy has been known to ride hundreds of laps in testing (not 2009 admittedly) and to judge him simply on 2009 is also harsh as he has been recovering or ill at times. If he genuinely had a poor work ethic he would be incapable of riding the machine and achieving any results at all just as the factory would no doubt get rid of him were that the case.
Gaz
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jul 22 2009, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Developed by himself and his team since 2004 of course… In contrast to the 2007 Ducati! Plus the Bridgestones that got the ‘One Tyre Manufacturer’ for a reason of course… I know, I know it's just up and down and up and down, etc.
I have no problem if rossi has a technical advantage now; apart from him likely having made a considerable contribution to any such advantage as you say, I had thought over the more than 2 decades that I have followed premier class gp bike racing that seeking technical advantage was one of the major objectives of the sport, and the reason there is something called the manufacturers championship. Come to think of it, perhaps this is no longer the case, since profits for dorna would now seem to be the real objective.
If ducati did have a technical advantage in 2007 though you should similarly have no complaint, particularly since stoner was the only one apparently able to use it, and on historical evidence the likelihood of ducati having a technical advantage over honda and yamaha is not much higher than the likelihood of another rider being able to match valentino rossi even for a single season. Whilst I would concede that it is unlikely to have been the primary objective, the new tyre rule did also preclude ducati having a tyre advantage, having laudably in my view gambled on bridgestone when they were the inferior tyres and then developed through hard work, inspiration or whatever in collaboration with bridgestone a winning bike/tyre combination.
I have no problem if rossi has a technical advantage now; apart from him likely having made a considerable contribution to any such advantage as you say, I had thought over the more than 2 decades that I have followed premier class gp bike racing that seeking technical advantage was one of the major objectives of the sport, and the reason there is something called the manufacturers championship. Come to think of it, perhaps this is no longer the case, since profits for dorna would now seem to be the real objective.
If ducati did have a technical advantage in 2007 though you should similarly have no complaint, particularly since stoner was the only one apparently able to use it, and on historical evidence the likelihood of ducati having a technical advantage over honda and yamaha is not much higher than the likelihood of another rider being able to match valentino rossi even for a single season. Whilst I would concede that it is unlikely to have been the primary objective, the new tyre rule did also preclude ducati having a tyre advantage, having laudably in my view gambled on bridgestone when they were the inferior tyres and then developed through hard work, inspiration or whatever in collaboration with bridgestone a winning bike/tyre combination.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 22 2009, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have no problem if rossi has a technical advantage now; apart from him likely having made a considerable contribution to any such advantage as you say, I had thought over the more than 2 decades that I have followed premier class gp bike racing that seeking technical advantage was one of the major objectives of the sport, and the reason there is something called the manufacturers championship. Come to think of it, perhaps this is no longer the case, since profits for dorna would now seem to be the real objective.
If ducati did have a technical advantage in 2007 though you should similarly have no complaint, particularly since stoner was the only one apparently able to use it, and on historical evidence the likelihood of ducati having a technical advantage over honda and yamaha is not much higher than the likelihood of another rider being able to match valentino rossi even for a single season. Whilst I would concede that it is unlikely to have been the primary objective, the new tyre rule did also preclude ducati having a tyre advantage, having laudably in my view gambled on bridgestone when they were the inferior tyres and then developed through hard work, inspiration or whatever in collaboration with bridgestone a winning bike/tyre combination.
Totally agree… point was Ducati/Bridgestone got it right first time around with 800cc.
If ducati did have a technical advantage in 2007 though you should similarly have no complaint, particularly since stoner was the only one apparently able to use it, and on historical evidence the likelihood of ducati having a technical advantage over honda and yamaha is not much higher than the likelihood of another rider being able to match valentino rossi even for a single season. Whilst I would concede that it is unlikely to have been the primary objective, the new tyre rule did also preclude ducati having a tyre advantage, having laudably in my view gambled on bridgestone when they were the inferior tyres and then developed through hard work, inspiration or whatever in collaboration with bridgestone a winning bike/tyre combination.
Totally agree… point was Ducati/Bridgestone got it right first time around with 800cc.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jul 23 2009, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Totally agree… point was Ducati/Bridgestone got it right first time around with 800cc.
Out of interest (oh god will this be flamed)
But if Ducati/Bridgestone got it right in 2007, did Yamaha/Bridgestone get it right in 2008?
Garry
Out of interest (oh god will this be flamed)
But if Ducati/Bridgestone got it right in 2007, did Yamaha/Bridgestone get it right in 2008?
Garry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 22 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but I think he had poor work ethic before he got "sick." Even the year he won the championship he was a slacker. The dude has the muscle tone of a 11 year old Ethiopian girl. Hit the gym once in a while for ..... sake.
Strange that he was able to pick his bike up without assistance and quickly enough to still finish second when he put it down at laguna seca last year, something rossi was unable to do at assen. Also strange that his success on the 2007 ducati appeared to involve basically wrestling the bike into submission, which the other ducati riders did not seem to be able to manage; perhaps they were too strong.
If anything I am agreement with lex that he may have obssessively over trained under pressure from improvement by his competitors.
Strange that he was able to pick his bike up without assistance and quickly enough to still finish second when he put it down at laguna seca last year, something rossi was unable to do at assen. Also strange that his success on the 2007 ducati appeared to involve basically wrestling the bike into submission, which the other ducati riders did not seem to be able to manage; perhaps they were too strong.
If anything I am agreement with lex that he may have obssessively over trained under pressure from improvement by his competitors.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 22 2009, 11:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Until CS improves this ratio quite massively. Then anyone who says CS is a better rider than VR is pissing into a hurricane, and really comes off looking like they have a disease common in Aussies called the 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'. It seems some here have their blunt machetes hacking at that poppy made of hardwood.
It is basically impossible even now for stoner to match valentino's career, and as I have argued previously if he ends with a third the number of wins that rossi has now he will be 5th all-time on the list of premier class gp wins and ahead of eddie lawson. The debate in which I am mainly participating due to calls that stoner fans were wimping out, and because I like an argument anyway, is not as far as I am concerned about whether stoner is valentino's equal in general which he fairly obviously is not, but rather related to the lack of credit given him for his basically perfect performance for that one season in 2007. The vitriol pertaining to this seems to me to be related to concern from some of the more extreme rossi fans that it detracts from rossi's overall legend rather than to stoner and his character flaws whatever they may be. And yes, rossi is of course fully entitled to legendary status.
The rest of the paragraph is arrant nonsense as you would know if you really are australian. The tall poppy syndrome in australia pretty well exclusively relates to our own tall poppies rather than those of other countries; come to think of it perhaps you really are australian and your attitude to casey stoner exemplifies it. Bike racing is a minority sport in australia which even in stoner's championship year garnered little mainstream media coverage, and rossi as he does elsewhere transcends the sport and has always been and continues to be immensely popular in australia. The majority of my long-term biker and bike-racing following mates still are fans of rossi ahead of stoner, and I am told the amount of yellow still exceeds the amount of red at phillip island.
It is basically impossible even now for stoner to match valentino's career, and as I have argued previously if he ends with a third the number of wins that rossi has now he will be 5th all-time on the list of premier class gp wins and ahead of eddie lawson. The debate in which I am mainly participating due to calls that stoner fans were wimping out, and because I like an argument anyway, is not as far as I am concerned about whether stoner is valentino's equal in general which he fairly obviously is not, but rather related to the lack of credit given him for his basically perfect performance for that one season in 2007. The vitriol pertaining to this seems to me to be related to concern from some of the more extreme rossi fans that it detracts from rossi's overall legend rather than to stoner and his character flaws whatever they may be. And yes, rossi is of course fully entitled to legendary status.
The rest of the paragraph is arrant nonsense as you would know if you really are australian. The tall poppy syndrome in australia pretty well exclusively relates to our own tall poppies rather than those of other countries; come to think of it perhaps you really are australian and your attitude to casey stoner exemplifies it. Bike racing is a minority sport in australia which even in stoner's championship year garnered little mainstream media coverage, and rossi as he does elsewhere transcends the sport and has always been and continues to be immensely popular in australia. The majority of my long-term biker and bike-racing following mates still are fans of rossi ahead of stoner, and I am told the amount of yellow still exceeds the amount of red at phillip island.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 23 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is basically impossible even now for stoner to match valentino's career, and as I have argued previously if he ends with a third the number of wins that rossi has now he will be 5th all-time on the list of premier class gp wins and ahead of eddie lawson. The debate in which I am mainly participating due to calls that stoner fans were wimping out, and because I like an argument anyway, is not as far as I am concerned about whether stoner is valentino's equal in general which he fairly obviously is not, but rather related to the lack of credit given him for his basically perfect performance for that one season in 2007. The vitriol pertaining to this seems to me to be related to concern from some of the more extreme rossi fans that it detracts from rossi's overall legend rather than to stoner and his character flaws whatever they may be. And yes, rossi is of course fully entitled to legendary status.
The rest of the paragraph is arrant nonsense as you would know if you really are australian. The tall poppy syndrome in australia pretty well exclusively relates to our own tall poppies rather than those of other countries; come to think of it perhaps you really are australian and your attitude to casey stoner exemplifies it. Bike racing is a minority sport in australia which even in stoner's championship year garnered little mainstream media coverage, and rossi as he does elsewhere transcends the sport and has always been and continues to be immensely popular in australia. The majority of my long-term biker and bike-racing following mates still are fans of rossi ahead of stoner, and I am told the amount of yellow still exceeds the amount of red at phillip island.
If you had read from where I was Quoting, I was reacting to Jum saying that CS is a better rider than VR. And of course you respond with a bunch of nonsense, for the arguments sake, of fans and their respective extreme ratios......
I want to like Casey for I respect his talent for riding a motorcycle, however his 'public character flaws' (as I do not know him personally) prevent me, and I'm sure many others (In OZ and Around the world) from doing this. How this can detract from Rossi's legend is beyond me, another point you created for argument no doubt. I offered nothing but the results in conclusion to the otherwise technical debate, for which you at least agreed with.
As for the Tall Poppy syndrome, of course it can/does exist outside OZ, we are all human dude. My point was giving reference to it. And from what I understand it relates to cutting down anyone, not just a successful Aussie. If I'm guilty of it with Stoner, then ask yourself why am I not cutting down Bayliss and Corser, Mick and Wayne or Garry McCoy. Surely most here are taller poppies?? Ask what do they have in common with each other, which Casey lacks.....don't give me the Extreme Rossi fan ......... either. I think ChrisV is one of the most professional, honest and sportsman like of any of the MotoGP field today, I wish for him greater success and a better bike to show us how good he really is.....
Time for some Viagra eyedrops mate......so you can take a good hard look at yourself!!
The rest of the paragraph is arrant nonsense as you would know if you really are australian. The tall poppy syndrome in australia pretty well exclusively relates to our own tall poppies rather than those of other countries; come to think of it perhaps you really are australian and your attitude to casey stoner exemplifies it. Bike racing is a minority sport in australia which even in stoner's championship year garnered little mainstream media coverage, and rossi as he does elsewhere transcends the sport and has always been and continues to be immensely popular in australia. The majority of my long-term biker and bike-racing following mates still are fans of rossi ahead of stoner, and I am told the amount of yellow still exceeds the amount of red at phillip island.
If you had read from where I was Quoting, I was reacting to Jum saying that CS is a better rider than VR. And of course you respond with a bunch of nonsense, for the arguments sake, of fans and their respective extreme ratios......
I want to like Casey for I respect his talent for riding a motorcycle, however his 'public character flaws' (as I do not know him personally) prevent me, and I'm sure many others (In OZ and Around the world) from doing this. How this can detract from Rossi's legend is beyond me, another point you created for argument no doubt. I offered nothing but the results in conclusion to the otherwise technical debate, for which you at least agreed with.
As for the Tall Poppy syndrome, of course it can/does exist outside OZ, we are all human dude. My point was giving reference to it. And from what I understand it relates to cutting down anyone, not just a successful Aussie. If I'm guilty of it with Stoner, then ask yourself why am I not cutting down Bayliss and Corser, Mick and Wayne or Garry McCoy. Surely most here are taller poppies?? Ask what do they have in common with each other, which Casey lacks.....don't give me the Extreme Rossi fan ......... either. I think ChrisV is one of the most professional, honest and sportsman like of any of the MotoGP field today, I wish for him greater success and a better bike to show us how good he really is.....
Time for some Viagra eyedrops mate......so you can take a good hard look at yourself!!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 23 2009, 04:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The rest of the paragraph is arrant nonsense as you would know if you really are australian. The tall poppy syndrome in australia pretty well exclusively relates to our own tall poppies rather than those of other countries; come to think of it perhaps you really are australian and your attitude to casey stoner exemplifies it. Bike racing is a minority sport in australia which even in stoner's championship year garnered little mainstream media coverage, and rossi as he does elsewhere transcends the sport and has always been and continues to be immensely popular in australia. The majority of my long-term biker and bike-racing following mates still are fans of rossi ahead of stoner, and I am told the amount of yellow still exceeds the amount of red at phillip island.
Come on michaelm, now you have doubts that he is real australian or not, because the guy doesn't like stoner or is it compulsary for every australian to like Stoner.
Come on michaelm, now you have doubts that he is real australian or not, because the guy doesn't like stoner or is it compulsary for every australian to like Stoner.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (inam @ Jul 23 2009, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Come on michaelm, now you have doubts that he is real australian or not, because the guy doesn't like stoner or is it compulsary for every australian to like Stoner.
I was objecting to the implication that there is widespread hatred for rossi in australia rather than requiring anyone to like stoner.
I was objecting to the implication that there is widespread hatred for rossi in australia rather than requiring anyone to like stoner.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 23 2009, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As for the Tall Poppy syndrome, of course it can/does exist outside OZ, we are all human dude.
I read Michale's point as being that generall the Australian public will only apply the Tall Poppy syndrome to Australian celebrities and in my experience I would say that to be correct in 99% of cases. But yes, the TP Syndrome does exist in overseas countries as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 23 2009, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point was giving reference to it. And from what I understand it relates to cutting down anyone, not just a successful Aussie. If I'm guilty of it with Stoner, then ask yourself why am I not cutting down Bayliss and Corser, Mick and Wayne or Garry McCoy. Surely most here are taller poppies?? Ask what do they have in common with each other, which Casey lacks.....don't give me the Extreme Rossi fan ......... either. I think ChrisV is one of the most professional, honest and sportsman like of any of the MotoGP field today, I wish for him greater success and a better bike to show us how good he really is.....
Firt things first, why is McCoy a taller poppy than Stoner when used in conjunction with the others you mention as all others are Australian World Champions within motorcycle sports, wheras McCoy is not (that is a genuine question before you assume otherwise).
That said, Corser, Doohan and Gardner are all known as whingers/whiners or whatever the current term of trade is by many fans and some competitors worldwide. Given that you have said that you do not like CS' personality due to his 'whining' I do not see any valid arguments to say that the other guys are different in personality (if that is your judgement point).
To extrapolate further, Doohan whilst a multiple WC and a great ambassador for the sport within Australia is no different to Stoner in many respects. Both race bikes very well, both make comments that are not deemed politically correct, both will criticise fellow competitors and teams, so in MD I miss your point.
Gardner, well he is not that well liked by many fans due to his singleminded approach and again, much like MD was none to shy in voicing his opinion.
Corser is slightly different as despite having a similar personality to MD/WG he did not succeed at the MotoGP (or in his case 500cc) level but is not regarded as a great rider by many (go figure) despite 2 WSBK WC's. He is also one not to shy to say the unpopular and say it with no political correctness, but he is a damn good development type of rider (much like Peter Goddard of years by).
Now to Bayliss, totally agree in saying that CS is incomparable to TB as for me they are poles apart in personality. TB is much like VR in personality as no matter what happens, TB smiles and accepts the fact. He is a fans racer and a true ornament to the sport of motorcycling for what it has given him.
McCoy is a champion, love the guy as he is a genuine underdog with mega talent who really never quite got there. I will not now or ever offer a negative opinion about him and therefore exclude him from the basic thrust of my comments.
Now, away from the sport I have met two of the above and know people who have met all and without failure they will tell you that TB is a 'bloody legend', and that goes without saying as he seems univerally loved.
With this said, I know a number of MA and MNSW officials who have nothing but good words for the likes of Bayliss, Corser, McCoy, Gardner (although some differ there) and Stoner. You will no doubt note the omission from that list but when stories are told it does not really surprise me.
Garry
I read Michale's point as being that generall the Australian public will only apply the Tall Poppy syndrome to Australian celebrities and in my experience I would say that to be correct in 99% of cases. But yes, the TP Syndrome does exist in overseas countries as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talpa @ Jul 23 2009, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point was giving reference to it. And from what I understand it relates to cutting down anyone, not just a successful Aussie. If I'm guilty of it with Stoner, then ask yourself why am I not cutting down Bayliss and Corser, Mick and Wayne or Garry McCoy. Surely most here are taller poppies?? Ask what do they have in common with each other, which Casey lacks.....don't give me the Extreme Rossi fan ......... either. I think ChrisV is one of the most professional, honest and sportsman like of any of the MotoGP field today, I wish for him greater success and a better bike to show us how good he really is.....
Firt things first, why is McCoy a taller poppy than Stoner when used in conjunction with the others you mention as all others are Australian World Champions within motorcycle sports, wheras McCoy is not (that is a genuine question before you assume otherwise).
That said, Corser, Doohan and Gardner are all known as whingers/whiners or whatever the current term of trade is by many fans and some competitors worldwide. Given that you have said that you do not like CS' personality due to his 'whining' I do not see any valid arguments to say that the other guys are different in personality (if that is your judgement point).
To extrapolate further, Doohan whilst a multiple WC and a great ambassador for the sport within Australia is no different to Stoner in many respects. Both race bikes very well, both make comments that are not deemed politically correct, both will criticise fellow competitors and teams, so in MD I miss your point.
Gardner, well he is not that well liked by many fans due to his singleminded approach and again, much like MD was none to shy in voicing his opinion.
Corser is slightly different as despite having a similar personality to MD/WG he did not succeed at the MotoGP (or in his case 500cc) level but is not regarded as a great rider by many (go figure) despite 2 WSBK WC's. He is also one not to shy to say the unpopular and say it with no political correctness, but he is a damn good development type of rider (much like Peter Goddard of years by).
Now to Bayliss, totally agree in saying that CS is incomparable to TB as for me they are poles apart in personality. TB is much like VR in personality as no matter what happens, TB smiles and accepts the fact. He is a fans racer and a true ornament to the sport of motorcycling for what it has given him.
McCoy is a champion, love the guy as he is a genuine underdog with mega talent who really never quite got there. I will not now or ever offer a negative opinion about him and therefore exclude him from the basic thrust of my comments.
Now, away from the sport I have met two of the above and know people who have met all and without failure they will tell you that TB is a 'bloody legend', and that goes without saying as he seems univerally loved.
With this said, I know a number of MA and MNSW officials who have nothing but good words for the likes of Bayliss, Corser, McCoy, Gardner (although some differ there) and Stoner. You will no doubt note the omission from that list but when stories are told it does not really surprise me.
Garry
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 23 2009, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>McCoy is a champion, love the guy as he is a genuine underdog with mega talent who really never quite got there. I will not now or ever offer a negative opinion about him and therefore exclude him from the basic thrust of my comments.
Now, away from the sport I have met two of the above and know people who have met all and without failure they will tell you that TB is a 'bloody legend', and that goes without saying as he seems univerally loved.
Garry
Can't agree enough here mate!!!! The rest is a bit vague and open to interpretation.....
but yes the world loves TB-one of the best-ever! If only Yamaka would have let Rossi Race him in Qatar......
Now, away from the sport I have met two of the above and know people who have met all and without failure they will tell you that TB is a 'bloody legend', and that goes without saying as he seems univerally loved.
Garry
but yes the world loves TB-one of the best-ever! If only Yamaka would have let Rossi Race him in Qatar......
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 23 2009, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I read Michale's point as being that generall the Australian public will only apply the Tall Poppy syndrome to Australian celebrities and in my experience I would say that to be correct in 99% of cases.
Garry
Thank you garry. This was exactly and I would have thought fairly obviously my point.
Garry
Thank you garry. This was exactly and I would have thought fairly obviously my point.
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