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QATAR 2012: RACE

I would have liked Stoner to take the win, and not getting beaten both by Lorenzo and his own teammate. My first thought was about the lack of race simulations too. But on the other hand - if he says it was arm pump, then it probably was arm pump. Said something to Hoffmann about his favorite glove breaking up yesterday and him not getting comfortable in the new one. Haven't seen the glove mentioned so far, that's why I bring it up (as doesn't make his point seem more or less legit anyway). I mean, I consider him someone with a slight tendency to blame others in a rage for all kinds of things, but not someone who needs silly excuses. Anyways, I'm a bit gutted. But compliments to Lorenzo and Pedrosa. Good mental effort by Dani to put the whole yachting-prison-blabla (and all those who laughed their ..... up about him, including me) aside and just bringing home a good result. Can't say anything about Spies. Obviously, something was wrong, whether it was because of his crashes or anything else. Should be up there anywhere between Tech3 and the podium normally, and probably will be come Jerez.



Cal and Dovi were shockingly boring in terms of 'battled the whole race through'. First, Cal shadowed Dovi, then he made an unspectacular pass, the Dovi shadowed Cal to the flag. You know what I mean? Still enjoyed them being up front. We need more bikes up there in front, and if it's four Yams and two Hondas instead of two Yams and two Hondas I am fine with that.



Bradl impressed me a lot. Very ballsy in the first laps, really fast for the first half, and seriously clever over the whole distance. Also nice to see LCR being up there again after last year's misery. As for Bradl fading, I would like to know wheter it was relating to tire life or his personal stamina. He mentioned several times that the physical aspect of riding a MotoGP bike is challenging him big time, and he really looked finished back in his garage.



Bautista for me was so-so. Cannot say more about him. P7 is ok. Still liked him more when he was on the Suzuki, don't know why exactly.



The Ducs are about were they were last year, only that Rossi is making up their rear and not their front. A shame that Abraham had to retire, would have been interesting to see the fourth Duc's performance overrace distance. P6, fighting with a bunch of sat bikes - including those of their own make-, and being way off the Top5 (with P4&5 being sat bikes, too) is just poor. I begin to feel sorry for them. The worst thing is that these issues destroy the people's trust in their engineering capabilities. Their design seems flawed, and its factory-backed 'improved' version is seemingly on par with the scrapped one of half a year back which they dumped in their customer teams' garages. And they should tell Rossi to shut the .... up and not blame them for his own shortcomings. It's one thing when you're off the pace but top of your own gang. It's ok to perform ...... and be quiet. But to completly .... up and then to blame the team, your employer btw, in an embarrassing and harmful way is too much out of line to take. And I don't think Ducati should accept this kind of performance and behavior.



CRT were ok, in particular Hernandez did a great job, as has done CE, of course. I would have preferred some more info on them, though. Can anyone tell me what happened to Petrucci? (Maybe they could do a second cut of the race, with cams on the CRTs, and air it after the podium ceremony, haha). Nice to see so many bikes on the grid, really.
 
Great win for Jorge.

Pedrosa was a surprise after poor practice sessions.

Stoner probably pleased that chatter did not ruin his race. he has had arm pump before and it has not been an issue that often, so doubt that it will ruin his season. One of Stoners reliable traits is brutal honesty, so I have no reason to doubt this, although the usual boppers will think and say otherwise. Egg on face down the track methinks.....................

Spies is feeling the pressure from Dovi and Cal. You cant keep knocking youself up and expect to race well.

Crutchlow seems on track for a good year and a big chance of a factory yamaha next year.

Hayden gutsy again.

Barbera had a good race. Comments here about being a nobody without drafting seem a bit hollow now.

Rossi................................................?



Basspete......proving himself to be one of the remaining delusional boppers. Show a bit of grace, old son...........! Even Talpa, with his original take on things has shown more restraint.





But the big question is.....................Where,s Rodger? Jumkie, do you know?

Sounded like tyres to me as well, particularly since I expected it to be problematic for him from when it was announced they were changing the tyres (which was at the request of most of the riders). I guess the question is whether he wore out the tyres/couldn't ride the worn tyres because of factors peculiar to this race, or whether he has a problem in general. Arm pump could have contributed if the bike was chattering the whole race making it hard for him to slide etc the worn tyres in his usual vigorous fashion; I think he has occasionally complained (that word) of arm pump in the past as you say. Arm pump if he is telling the truth would explain why he he had no problem with worn tyres which had done a race length number of laps. If he had done a continuous lap race simulation and realised this gave him arm pump I am not sure that he could have done much about it in the middle of a race week-end, other than try to get rid of the chatter as he was doing anyway.



The result is less a concern for me than if he out and out didn't have the pace (particularly at qatar);I see his fastest lap was over 0.4 seconds quicker tha jorge's on the race analysis, and settling for third if he can't win is better than crashing, not that it will avail him much if he has to settle for third every race.



If it is wholly down to tyres he will just have to adapt.
 
Nornal service is resumed, a wee bit o pressure an Stoner falls to bits like a cheap watch.



JLo, Motogp Champ 2012,

Um, how does not crashing and settling for third when unable to maintain his early superior pace at the end of the race constitute falling apart like a cheap watch?



If he is lying and it is all down to the tyres he will have to adapt, which may involve doing full race simulations in practice as others have said to work out strategies for preserving the tyres. Finishing 3rd still would seem a better adaptation in the first instance to new equipment which doesn't suit him as well than a certain unquestionably great ducati rider has made to a bike that doesn't suit him.
 
Nornal service is resumed, a wee bit o pressure an Stoner falls to bits like a cheap watch.



JLo, Motogp Champ 2012,



A bit premature no? A wee arm pump surgery - and hi'll be beck winnin', chat-r er no. Dinna ferget hoe he rrrodde around the much grate-r dif-fishuhncis of the Doo-cat-ee.
 
Not a bad race to watch, the thing I noticed the most was the sound of the TC absolutely dominating acceleration. So much for a revised-more rider based championship.........at least the tyres have thrown up a variable



That being said Well Done Jorge!!!! GREAT effort. And Pedders, what a nice surprise. Stoners excuse was a little bit transparent, Arm Pump? Looked like tyre issues to me-lack of track time-no race simulation really caught them out this time, whereas Dani has been working like a trooper and got the absolutely unexpected result.



But Lorenzo looks very good, and will be difficult to match for the rest of the season, this track was Hondas/Stoners best shot at a nice easy win and they've come up short. Well done to Bradl too, quite an impressive debut.



As for Ducati, well they've gone backwards again, Hayden was 30 seconds off and battling the sats, ridiculous, Rossi beyond embarrassing and something fundamental needs to to be done to end this relationship. The bike actually still looks quite ugly too, and those colours are like some horrendous kids toothpaste. compared to the Honda and Yams, its now another joke with no clear direction or any comprehension of whats actually going wrong-if it wasn't for the long straight they would have been struggling with the CRTs too. Its been too long and too silly and Kropo is right a serious backlash is coming for that team, Ducati and Rossi himself, a very, very sad situation.



Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. Haters ..... and moan if he mentions a deficiency in the bike and you whinge when he smilingly mentions that he was held back by a racing injury common to all racers. Damned if he does ... etc. The only thing that will satisfy you and the haters is if Stoner says, "I lost because I suck and I suck because I'm not Rossi.".
 
Stoner chewed up his tyres as i thought when he shot off early on. Smart race from Lorenzo, took his time and won easier than expected. Surprise finish by Pedrosa.



That's what we all love about you. Never let actual facts come between you and an opportunity to badmouth the guy who always beats Rossi.
 
Great win for Jorge.

Pedrosa was a surprise after poor practice sessions.

Stoner probably pleased that chatter did not ruin his race. he has had arm pump before and it has not been an issue that often, so doubt that it will ruin his season. One of Stoners reliable traits is brutal honesty, so I have no reason to doubt this, although the usual boppers will think and say otherwise. Egg on face down the track methinks.....................

Spies is feeling the pressure from Dovi and Cal. You cant keep knocking youself up and expect to race well.

Crutchlow seems on track for a good year and a big chance of a factory yamaha next year.

Hayden gutsy again.

Barbera had a good race. Comments here about being a nobody without drafting seem a bit hollow now.

Rossi................................................?



Basspete......proving himself to be one of the remaining delusional boppers. Show a bit of grace, old son...........! Even Talpa, with his original take on things has shown more restraint.





But the big question is.....................Where,s Rodger? Jumkie, do you know?



I hear tell he's afraid of being ganged up on by all the Aussies round these days.
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What the hell..stoner thought one fast lap was good in Herez and Sepang during winter testing and then went back to play with his newborn baby..JLO did race simulation with hundred of laps in Sepang and Herez...I bet Stoner wants to go back to Sepang instead of moarning and pissing off for showing a fast lap and thought the bike was good and can last the race....
 
That's what we all love about you. Never let actual facts come between you and an opportunity to badmouth the guy who always beats Rossi.



Agreed.



A lot of sour grapes from the bopper horde. I know it can be frustrating when the rider you follow is out of contention and seems unlikely to improve. I felt that way during parts of 2009, 2010. But is it really necessary to go on with the petty sniping at Stoner? He still got a podium fellas! Something Vale would die for right now. And new conspiracy theories to boot.........he should have done a full race simulation! Oh dear..... it had nothing to do with that at all. He had arm pump as he has had once or twice before. His post-race attitude would suggest that he is fundamentally happy with the performance of the Honda and the tyres and is confident that the arm-pump shouldn,t continue to be a big issue.

I repeat, show a bit of grace boppers; don,t convert your frustration into misdirected criticism of others. Remember that most Stoner fans would also wish for Rossi to be in contention, and that now, once we have had our fill of seeing the irony of Rossi,s statement that " We do not know what the potential of the ducati is because casey is not trying hard enough", we are willing to move on and find it equally sad that Rossi is trapped in a corner with seemingly no escape.
 
My word mate! That's exactly what I thought. Why in gods name didn't he do a race simulation?

If it really was arm pump as he says, there is not much you can do about it mid race week-end. Doing a race simulation wouldn't have helped, fixing the chatter as he endeavoured to do may have helped.



If this happens again on a circuit where he has less chatter or they manage to eliminate the chatter problem in general, then his race strategy, lack of race simulations in practice etc comes into question (or he needs to have a fasciotomy). He had several races like this on the almighty 2011 honda, albeit not at tracks previously as favourable to him as qatar.
 
Sounded like tyres to me as well, particularly since I expected it to be problematic for him from when it was announced they were changing the tyres (which was at the request of most of the riders). I guess the question is whether he wore out the tyres/couldn't ride the worn tyres because of factors peculiar to this race, or whether he has a problem in general. Arm pump could have contributed if the bike was chattering the whole race making it hard for him to slide etc the worn tyres in his usual vigorous fashion; I think he has occasionally complained (that word) of arm pump in the past as you say. Arm pump if he is telling the truth would explain why he he had no problem with worn tyres which had done a race length number of laps. If he had done a continuous lap race simulation and realised this gave him arm pump I am not sure that he could have done much about it in the middle of a race week-end, other than try to get rid of the chatter as he was doing anyway.



The result is less a concern for me than if he out and out didn't have the pace (particularly at qatar);I see his fastest lap was over 0.4 seconds quicker tha jorge's on the race analysis, and settling for third if he can't win is better than crashing, not that it will avail him much if he has to settle for third every race.



If it is wholly down to tyres he will just have to adapt.



I don't know what feed you might have, but the Eurosport video showed Stoner moving his right arm extremely gingerly as he slouched off the bike.

Later, on the podium, he was massaging the hand as if to squeeze some feeling back into it.

Casey's not prone to theatrics, and the way he was wincing seemed quite convincing.



Arm.jpg








And this image is downright shocking!
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GilliganIsAllSmiles.jpg




You'd think these two were about to bust out the marshmallows and join in a rousing chorus of "Kumbaya."
 
Hopefully CS Doesn't need to have surgery to correct the arm pump, but if he does the recovery time isn't to long from what I remember. I remember when Nicky had the surgery and it was during the season, he seemed to do fine with it. Hasn't it been said that arm pump is normal for professional racers and that sooner or later they all get it and end up getting the surgery.



As far as Rossi being critical of Ducati, well it's about damn time. Him and Nicky have the talent to be fighting for podiums. GP is set up around the tires so just build the bike around the front tire and stop trying to be different.
 
Sounded like tyres to me as well, particularly since I expected it to be problematic for him from when it was announced they were changing the tyres (which was at the request of most of the riders). I guess the question is whether he wore out the tyres/couldn't ride the worn tyres because of factors peculiar to this race, or whether he has a problem in general. Arm pump could have contributed if the bike was chattering the whole race making it hard for him to slide etc the worn tyres in his usual vigorous fashion; I think he has occasionally complained (that word) of arm pump in the past as you say. Arm pump if he is telling the truth would explain why he he had no problem with worn tyres which had done a race length number of laps. If he had done a continuous lap race simulation and realised this gave him arm pump I am not sure that he could have done much about it in the middle of a race week-end, other than try to get rid of the chatter as he was doing anyway.



The result is less a concern for me than if he out and out didn't have the pace (particularly at qatar);I see his fastest lap was over 0.4 seconds quicker tha jorge's on the race analysis, and settling for third if he can't win is better than crashing, not that it will avail him much if he has to settle for third every race.



If it is wholly down to tyres he will just have to adapt.



Stoner's race had all the signs of tire troubles, imo. After building a 2 second lead at the front, his pace dropped rather spectacularly in the last few laps. The rear tire started spinning at the exit of every corner.



However, I think fuel could be a possibility as well. Fuel programming can also cause a rapid increase in lap times (Dani Pedrosa at Laguna in 2009) and Dani Pedrosa once said that Honda fuel computer turns off the traction control capabilities if fuel is a problem. The catch is that Neil Spalding said that Yamaha and Honda have vastly improved their traction control systems over the last few years. The engines no longer cut spark (waste fuel); instead, they have tuned the engines and electronics to the engines don't make too much torque/horsepower in the first place. If TC doesn't waste fuel, maybe it doesn't have to be turned off. Apparently, Ducati do not have as good a system, which could be contributing to their lack of pace. Also makes me wonder about the continuity of desmo, and how its variability compares to pneumatic systems. Maybe someone can kick this theory farther down the road.



Arm pump could be down to the extra 7kg? Honda weren't planning to run 157kg for 2012, and perhaps they've stashed the ballast in a compromised place?
 
ahhh..stoner just didn't know how to control the race..this is 1000Cc horse and ain't no more 800 moles..JLO and Carl and Dovi suit much better
 
Hopefully CS Doesn't need to have surgery to correct the arm pump, but if he does the recovery time isn't to long from what I remember. I remember when Nicky had the surgery and it was during the season, he seemed to do fine with it. Hasn't it been said that arm pump is normal for professional racers and that sooner or later they all get it and end up getting the surgery.

Yes, and nicky looked as though he had the old operation where they open the whole forearm. Jorge had a fasciotomy (actually prior to nicky) via keyhole surgery from which the recovery is even quicker. You would think if it becomes a chronic problem stoner would need to wait till there was a 3 or 4 week break though.
 
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Apart from the arm pump problem that slowed Stoner down (I think we all thought it was the tires...) the real surprise of this race has been Pedrosa.[/font]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Good race by him, almost as good as Lorenzo's. [/font]
 
Stoner was expected to win but didnt. Not sure why keshav is so upset...oh wait...
 

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