Motul Grand Prix of Japan 2016 spoilers

AJV80 said:

Yeah, the internet is a pretty stupid place to find information on unicorns and magical tyre theories. Silly me.

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Rossi uses his weight to get what he wants in this sport. Look at last year, Lorenzo was dominant on the softer Bridgestone. At assen they took that option away, even though most riders said it was a better, safer tyre.

When some were interviewed about it, including Marquez, he said tongue in cheek everyone knows why the softer tyre has been withdrawn..........in as many words, mr Valentino Rossi wants to win the title and likes harder tyres better.

Not conspiracy, it's fact. Watch lorenzos documentary from last yr.

Richy56 said:

Rossi uses his weight to get what he wants in this sport. Look at last year, Lorenzo was dominant on the softer Bridgestone. At assen they took that option away, even though most riders said it was a better, safer tyre.

When some were interviewed about it, including Marquez, he said tongue in cheek everyone knows why the softer tyre has been withdrawn..........in as many words, mr Valentino Rossi wants to win the title and likes harder tyres better.

Not conspiracy, it's fact. Watch lorenzos documentary from last yr.

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Sorry Richy, that comment was in response to a comment somebody made and then withdrew by the look of it. It was a smart ... snipe and wasn't intended in a derogatory way to anyone else really and I should have withdrawn it.

What your saying sounds pretty reasonable actually, certainly explains a bit about last year. Rossi has huge pull in the series and I have no doubt he exploits it whenever he is able. I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to. The huge choice of tyres and the inconsistency each round all just seems like they are taking as many stabs in the dark at is as they can and hoping a couple of them hit the mark. An expensive exercise on their part, but keeps them from having embarrassing tyre sitaatuions like Bridgestone did after PI was resurfaced.

AJV80 said:

Sorry Richy, that comment was in response to a comment somebody made and then withdrew by the look of it. It was a smart ... snipe and wasn't intended in a derogatory way to anyone else really and I should have withdrawn it.

What your saying sounds pretty reasonable actually, certainly explains a bit about last year. Rossi has huge pull in the series and I have no doubt he exploits it whenever he is able. I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to. The huge choice of tyres and the inconsistency each round all just seems like they are taking as many stabs in the dark at is as they can and hoping a couple of them hit the mark.An expensive exercise on their part, but keeps them from having embarrassing tyre sitaatuions like Bridgestone did after PI was resurfaced.

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We will never know, Michelin have been .... this yr their quality control is poor.

Lorenzo was awesome pre season, then something changed, maybe someone had a word with old Michelin. Trouble is it's a double edge sword as Marquez likes harder tyres, Lorenzo soft, so until one gets injured Rossi is ...... cos he isn't as good as both of them on their preferred tyre

Richy56 said:

We will never know, Michelin have been .... this yr their quality control is poor.

Lorenzo was awesome pre season, then something changed, maybe someone had a word with old Michelin. Trouble is it's a double edge sword as Marquez likes harder tyres, Lorenzo soft, so until one gets injured Rossi is ...... cos he isn't as good as both of them on their preferred tyre

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I think with Marc's 5 titles now, Rossi's pull may start to decline a bit. Marc is like 23 years old i think. He is on a great bike and the future of the sport. If he stays with Honda I don't really see anyone who is currently in the series that could stop him. I don't see him having any issues in staying with Honda and grabbing another 4 titles to equal or better Rossi.

Richy56 said:

Rossi uses his weight to get what he wants in this sport. Look at last year, .

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Why look to last year ............ dashboard.

And before people jump up and down, Rossi is and has power in the sport and as such he knows if he speaks than ears will prick up and listen but it is NOT his fault if those ears then fall to action, that is the fault of the heads on which the ears sit and in business, you do try to placate your best assets

AJV80 said:

I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to.

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Devils Advocate here so some may need to have a snickers bar beforet hey respond.

I disagree in that Michelin could not build a tyre suited for or based on the requirements of Rossi as they are a large company and have the resources to be able to do it quite easily.

But in saying that I doubt that the could build one as Rossi has not yet or would not (assuming the theory is regular or near immediate tyre construction changes) have been able to produce the data necessary to be able to have an immediate impact on the tyre construction.

In short, unlike old days where Michelin had years of experience or did base construction around a few people, today they are again starting from scratch and that includes Rossi who whilst he knows what he wants, the data is not available to allow Michelin to construct the tyre fast enough to be of immediate benefit. Sure they may produce tyres based on the feedback but there is no guarantee that those tyres will work at a circuit a few races later.

IMO and to start the conspiracy, 2017 however is different as data exists which gives the baseline and all can work from there but again, logistics have changed.

moto vudu said:

Nothing you just wrote has anything to do with the 2016 Michelins.

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That's because nothing I wrote was intended to be about the 2016 Michelins.

I hope the michelins are sorted enough for PI this weekend.

aaronl said:

I hope the michelins are sorted enough for PI this weekend.

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They should probably sift through this lot and find some take off's ... they will do a better job.

AJV80 said:

Sorry Richy, that comment was in response to a comment somebody made and then withdrew by the look of it. It was a smart ... snipe and wasn't intended in a derogatory way to anyone else really and I should have withdrawn it.

What your saying sounds pretty reasonable actually, certainly explains a bit about last year. Rossi has huge pull in the series and I have no doubt he exploits it whenever he is able. I just don't think Michelin this year are at a stage where they could build tyres to suit Rossi if they wanted to. The huge choice of tyres and the inconsistency each round all just seems like they are taking as many stabs in the dark at is as they can and hoping a couple of them hit the mark. An expensive exercise on their part, but keeps them from having embarrassing tyre sitaatuions like Bridgestone did after PI was resurfaced.

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If your looking for anything to say that maybe Michelin are pushing towards Rossi favoured tyres look no further than the fact they had Colin Edwards as their tyre developer on a m1 Yamaha. There's so many faster guys I'm sure they could've gotten. I'm sure people will say oh he's experienced blah blah blah but really how good is a guys input when he is riding around a couple of seconds off the pace? It's certainly not fool proof but Edwards is probably the biggest fanboy in the MotoGP paddock and would certainly have no issues giving feedback that would favour Rossi.

AJV80 said:

I think with Marc's 5 titles now, Rossi's pull may start to decline a bit. Marc is like 23 years old i think. He is on a great bike and the future of the sport. If he stays with Honda I don't really see anyone who is currently in the series that could stop him. I don't see him having any issues in staying with Honda and grabbing another 4 titles to equal or better Rossi.

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No if that was the case and DORNA had the kind of foresight you're talking about they would've spun PI/Sepang to being pro Marquez. Ya know just telling it like it actually was rather than indulge his delusions.

I agree with the next part, I don't see who else is coming through that could beat Marquez(assuming Honda doesn't have another epic .... up) within the next 3-4 years barring injury. I don't think Vinaeles is that guy based off the fact unless he is way faster than the guy in front he struggles to overtake. Look how much trouble Aleix gave him even though he had a lot more pace now imagine if it was Lorenzo, Rossi or Marquez trying to stop him getting through. Rins seems to be the next big thing but he couldn't beat Zarco over 2 season in moto2 while a 20 year old Marquez beat Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Rossi. Binder who could be someone to watch out for is already 20 or 21 so I don't see him being at the level of the other top riders circulating at the moment in the GP. That leaves some of the younger guys in moto3 all of who likely won't graduate to the GP for at least 3 years probably more. Until then Marquez has a few years where his fiercest competition gets old and others competing he's been wiping the floor with for at least 5 years.

p4p1 said:

No if that was the case and DORNA had the kind of foresight you're talking about they would've spun PI/Sepang to being pro Marquez. Ya know just telling it like it actually was rather than indulge his delusions.

I agree with the next part, I don't see who else is coming through that could beat Marquez(assuming Honda doesn't have another epic .... up) within the next 3-4 years barring injury. I don't think Vinaeles is that guy based off the fact unless he is way faster than the guy in front he struggles to overtake. Look how much trouble Aleix gave him even though he had a lot more pace now imagine if it was Lorenzo, Rossi or Marquez trying to stop him getting through. Rins seems to be the next big thing but he couldn't beat Zarco over 2 season in moto2 while a 20 year old Marquez beat Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Rossi. Binder who could be someone to watch out for is already 20 or 21 so I don't see him being at the level of the other top riders circulating at the moment in the GP. That leaves some of the younger guys in moto3 all of who likely won't graduate to the GP for at least 3 years probably more. Until then Marquez has a few years where his fiercest competition gets old and others competing he's been wiping the floor with for at least 5 years.

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Well we can all only hope Marc's 5th title now opens Dorna's eyes a little as to where the future of the sport is going. They are a business after all and Rossi brings them in a lot of money and thats all good. But Rossi wont last forever and milking Rossi with the press will get harder and harder especially if Marc is winning everything. At some point they need to protect their future.

Rossi is the old man in the paddock who refuses to give up, kudos to him for giving it his all to remain competitive, its no surprise he exploits every avenue he can to give himself the edge over all the faster riders. I don't even think Dorna, or Michelin or Yamaha can really do anything to stop Marc and the inevitable from happening.

moto vudu said:

I went on MotoGP.com and looked up Lorenzo's results in the dry to support my opinion. It's easy to look up Lorenzo's results in the wet to support my statement that is where he struggled. So the "........" I spout is backed by actual results. The ........ you and Jums spout about the Michelin tires being made specifically for Rossi is unsupported and you two have been spouting it all season long. Ironic that you feel I'm the one that's so full of .....

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That the tyre this year was designed for Rossi is obviously unproven, but not an irrational hypothesis imo, not that I necessarily subscribe to it myself; I am tending towards stuff-ups by Michelin in the absence of data in their first year back plus or minus instructions to them from Dorna to "improve the racing". If Jumkie and JPS are right however, the last thing Michelin or Dorna would do is admit to it, not that this makes them correct either of course.

It is definitely factual that Dorna have multiply finagled the tyres over the last decade, sometimes to the obvious disadvantage of various riders and marques some of whom are on the record as saying so.

Why is this one hypothesis so odious, given hypothesising is largely the business of online forums, particularly with other allegations which are out there, including Rossi's to the whole GP world in regard to the end of last season?

Wayne Gardner questioned over road rage incident

Dont take no .... from them Wayne!

Wayne Gardner: Former motorbike world champion questioned over alleged road rage incident at Japanese Grand Prix - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Have had dealings with him ............ whilst he is no Matt Mladin it is fair to say that in my experiences (and those of others whom I trust) Matt went to the Wayne school of 'how to win friends and influence people'

Yeah Wayne Gardner has always struck me as a complete and utter .....

moto vudu said:

Dry races so far this year:

Lorenzo won: Qatar, LeMans, & Mugello

Lorenzo finished 2nd:
COTA, Jerez, Aragon

Lorenzo finished 3rd:
RedBull Ring (first non-Ducati)
Misano


Again, Lorenzo did well in the dry on Michelins that JPS claims are not suited for his riding style. It was the wet weather races that destroyed his championship hopes.

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Two of those wins were before they changed the tire I believe. Obviously the championship was lost in that wet 4 race stretch, but he has continued to fall further behind on tracks he should be gaining given the superiority of his bike. Speaking of bikes, Marquez says the biggest improvement on this years bike was when they went to the larger wing. Who knows how not having them will affect Honda for 2017

MdubSTYLIE said:

If Marc wins the title this weekend I think this will be my next tattoo.

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i have lots of tattoos so i know a bunch of good artists let me know where you live and i can get you some names

Richy56 said:

Disagree sorry. Marc took a bike which was totally alien to him in 2013. A bike a season before stoner couldn't win the championship on.

He won the world championship in his rookie year, if that's not adapting, I don't know what is. If the 2012/2013 bike was that good in your opinion why didn't the aliens of pedrosa and stoner wrap the title up on it in 12/13?

Have you ever raced a bike? Adapting to a new bike and winning races is one thing, putting together consistent strong performances on a new bike and winning a title is completely different. Bottom line is Marquez has won 3 in 4 in MotoGP, regardless of the machinery, he is and always was an alien

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Stoner also missed several races which pretty much decided the championship against him. Saying he couldn't win the championship on it is more like a click bait title. Either way, the point remains, he was given the best bike on the grid with the best electronics. Talented certainly? But he was the first rookie to be gifted a worldbeater. He made the most of the opportunity no doubt. Regarding Pedrosa, he had bad luck at Misano in 2012. That and Phillip Island cost him a chance to win that title.

Like I said, the alien term gets thrown around as much as the GOAT term.

I need a larger body of work before assessing someone as an alien. You might not require it, and that is fine. But I don't find it productive to succumb to hyperbole, and pronounce riders aliens based off of a small body of work as has been done with Maverick Vinales. Vinales may go on to win a title or two, and have a fairly solid body of work, but then again he may also do no such thing. If it's the latter, I think the alien assessment that was dished out a month or two ago would have been premature.

But let me ask, would you consider Rossi an alien? After all, he bagged 5 titles in 5 years.

mark419ny said:

i have lots of tattoos so i know a bunch of good artists let me know where you live and i can get you some names

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I am horrible with bets on this forum. Did I seriously lose a bet with myself?

JPSLotus said:

Stoner also missed several races which pretty much decided the championship against him. Saying he couldn't win the championship on it is more like a click bait title. Either way, the point remains, he was given the best bike on the grid with the best electronics. Talented certainly? But he was the first rookie to be gifted a worldbeater. He made the most of the opportunity no doubt. Regarding Pedrosa, he had bad luck at Misano in 2012. That and Phillip Island cost him a chance to win that title.

Like I said, the alien term gets thrown around as much as the GOAT term.

I need a larger body of work before assessing someone as an alien. You might not require it, and that is fine. But I don't find it productive to succumb to hyperbole, and pronounce riders aliens based off of a small body of work as has been done with Maverick Vinales. Vinales may go on to win a title or two, and have a fairly solid body of work, but then again he may also do no such thing. If it's the latter, I think the alien assessment that was dished out a month or two ago would have been premature.

But let me ask, would you consider Rossi an alien? After all, he bagged 5 titles in 5 years.

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Fair enough, I would argue that what Marquez did in 2013 is better than what stoner did in 2007 but each to their own.

Vinales is not an alien. I'm not sure he will win a title, maybe wrong. There is not a lot wrong with that Suzuki.

I don't like the bloke as you can probably tell but yeah rossi is imo

Lorenzo? Imo yea